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I hope nobody complains about me starting a new thread for this, I think it distracts from the question, if SSU will support Orbiter 2016 soon. And I am sure, its better to keep the topic where the responsible people will sure read it.
I branched off from here: http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=541208&postcount=58
First of all, nobody of us is immune against criticism, we are all learning and making errors. And there are good reasons for criticism, as I see it as involved. We are nearing the tenth anniversary of SSU and what have we achieved in that time? Should I be really sarcastic, you can really claim SSU will always stay the future Shuttle for Orbiter.
On the other side, we have really achieved great things in that time. Not always visible in the add-on. We have dug out more data, information and documentation about the Space Shuttle than many other people in the world. In the beginning of the project we discussed about missing switches in the Atlantis VC. Now we discuss actual logic diagrams and blueprints, about relay logic and even errors in NASA documentation.
SSU was about keeping the Shuttle program in all its glory and madness alive in Orbiter and maybe we got too similar to NASA in the process.
But in terms of the add-on there is also a lot achieved, that made it into Orbiter, and there will be more. Or look at the implementation of the crawler now. SF models more of the surrounding infrastructure and that is something we still lack, because our focus was on other topics.
Wrong there though. We never wanted to replace SF. At one place early in the project, there was a short moment when we had too choose between becoming a SF clone first and then adding more detail or dive into the details and eventually support full missions like SF does. With SF returning shortly later, the choice for the latter was made easy for us. We let SF be SF and SSU be SSU. We are looking at the same spacecraft from different angles (In terms of SSU, I fear we are lost somewhere in the pipes in the aft compartment).
And yes, SSU is a very long-running project and every next release is a miracle to me. Another 8 years of SSU and we have to worry about our contributors pushing up the daisies. Its really a good question to ask, if all of us will ever be alive to see a complete SSU. But we can only work so fast. SSU does not put food on the table and depending on donations would kill the project eventually. We have to stay non-commercial and free from "investor pressure".
I think the key question is: Can a single astronaut fly the Space Shuttle all alone? Right now we expect it somehow. SSU is a huge construction site, and at every corner, you need to improvise. Its too much workload to do a mission without getting frustrated.
In my opinion, we can fix this without changing the character of the add-on. But this takes time and more work. We will add a mission control to SSU rather soon and I think having AI astronauts on board could also allow making SSU easier to fly.
Of course, it will always be one level harder to fly than SF. Also, the more we do in that direction, the harder it will become to make missions for SSU, regardless how good the tools for that task become. The more intelligence we expect from a AI in SSU, the more information the AI needs about the mission.
How would you solve this problem?
Call us one-percenters. Only 1% of the Space Shuttle fans in the Orbiter world use SSU. It is not like we place popularity high in our priorities. I actually don't mind that much about it. I have given up trying to be popular for attracting developers to make SSU better.
But yes, we can't always point to the FDF, when the actual user interface is keyboard, joystick and mouse. We need to explain more.
I branched off from here: http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=541208&postcount=58
Sorry to step in guys and please note this NOT a critique to the devs: SSU is probably, as you say, the "future Shuttle" for Orbiter.
First of all, nobody of us is immune against criticism, we are all learning and making errors. And there are good reasons for criticism, as I see it as involved. We are nearing the tenth anniversary of SSU and what have we achieved in that time? Should I be really sarcastic, you can really claim SSU will always stay the future Shuttle for Orbiter.
On the other side, we have really achieved great things in that time. Not always visible in the add-on. We have dug out more data, information and documentation about the Space Shuttle than many other people in the world. In the beginning of the project we discussed about missing switches in the Atlantis VC. Now we discuss actual logic diagrams and blueprints, about relay logic and even errors in NASA documentation.
SSU was about keeping the Shuttle program in all its glory and madness alive in Orbiter and maybe we got too similar to NASA in the process.
But in terms of the add-on there is also a lot achieved, that made it into Orbiter, and there will be more. Or look at the implementation of the crawler now. SF models more of the surrounding infrastructure and that is something we still lack, because our focus was on other topics.
I know the enormous effort and dedication that you guys are putting in such an ambitious project but let me say something from the "user" side: SSU development started something like 7-8 years ago with huge expectations from everybody in the community. We all had the feeling that the Fleet was eventually getting kind of obsolete with no further development by the author and I think Shuttle enthusiats like hutchinson66 would be very happy to fly SSU on their STS missions.
Wrong there though. We never wanted to replace SF. At one place early in the project, there was a short moment when we had too choose between becoming a SF clone first and then adding more detail or dive into the details and eventually support full missions like SF does. With SF returning shortly later, the choice for the latter was made easy for us. We let SF be SF and SSU be SSU. We are looking at the same spacecraft from different angles (In terms of SSU, I fear we are lost somewhere in the pipes in the aft compartment).
And yes, SSU is a very long-running project and every next release is a miracle to me. Another 8 years of SSU and we have to worry about our contributors pushing up the daisies. Its really a good question to ask, if all of us will ever be alive to see a complete SSU. But we can only work so fast. SSU does not put food on the table and depending on donations would kill the project eventually. We have to stay non-commercial and free from "investor pressure".
IMHO SSU has one big problem:it is very difficult to understand how it works (and what works so far and what does not). The fact that it is still under development together with (let me say it) the lack of a complete documentation on how to use it (or maybe some tutorials) generates quite a lot of frustration.
I think the key question is: Can a single astronaut fly the Space Shuttle all alone? Right now we expect it somehow. SSU is a huge construction site, and at every corner, you need to improvise. Its too much workload to do a mission without getting frustrated.
In my opinion, we can fix this without changing the character of the add-on. But this takes time and more work. We will add a mission control to SSU rather soon and I think having AI astronauts on board could also allow making SSU easier to fly.
Of course, it will always be one level harder to fly than SF. Also, the more we do in that direction, the harder it will become to make missions for SSU, regardless how good the tools for that task become. The more intelligence we expect from a AI in SSU, the more information the AI needs about the mission.
How would you solve this problem?
Yes, you can say "look at the NASA FDF, these are the docs and checklists for SSU" but even using those manuals and checkilists is not straight forward as it may seem: not everybody is a Space Shuttle geek. I wonder how many people currently use SSU and how many don't for the above reasons.
Call us one-percenters. Only 1% of the Space Shuttle fans in the Orbiter world use SSU. It is not like we place popularity high in our priorities. I actually don't mind that much about it. I have given up trying to be popular for attracting developers to make SSU better.
But yes, we can't always point to the FDF, when the actual user interface is keyboard, joystick and mouse. We need to explain more.