News Battle of Jutland Centenary.

[Notebook]

Its coming up to that time, and the telly progs have started. This one was quite good this evening

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/jutland-wwis-greatest-sea-battle

Not sure it gets out the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jutland

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

The biggest naval engagement of modern history... sadly only few people will remember it here, despite this also being the battle during which the namesake of our most famous navy vessel died, Gorch Fock.

 

[Notebook]

Its sort of acknowledged here, of course it wasn't a great British naval victory, so disappeared into history. Considering the Royal Navy numerical advantage, it should have been more decisive.
That program does a good job of explaining the dispositions, and manoeuvring.

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, here people see it as a pyrrhic victory. The British got badly bruised, but the German navy was unable to do anything afterwards, despite loosing only relatively few ships.

 

[Notebook]

Agreed, a tactical win for Germany, strategic win for UK.

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

Agreed, a tactical win for Germany, strategic win for UK.

N.

Yeah... possibly the wrong battle at the wrong time - the German ships had been running out of fuel slowly, but the emperor did not want to risk his favorite military branch.

 

[Notebook]

Its interesting that the Royal cousins were both into their respective Navies. Popular prejudice here has it Wilhelm was jealous of the RN and always looking to increase the German Navy power.

A famous cartoon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropping_the_Pilot

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

Its interesting that the Royal cousins were both into their respective Navies. Popular prejudice here has it Wilhelm was jealous of the RN and always looking to increase the German Navy power.

A famous cartoon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropping_the_Pilot

N.

Not just prejudice - that was really a fact. :lol: But "Dropping the pilot" was not as much about navy as about the fact that Bismarck essentially ruled Germany behind the scenes, with Wilhelms grandfather giving Bismarck a lot of freedom in his politics. When Wilhelm II became emperor (after his father died after just 99 days in office), he did not allow Bismarck the same power and wanted to rule himself without the old man disturbing him, thus dismissing Bismarck. Funnily he also opposed the politics of his father, who wanted a more British style constitutional monarchy.

 

[tl8]

A related joke I heard recently:

Its 1946 and a U-Boat and its crew pull back into port. The Commander asks one of the dockworkers if they had won the war.

The dockworker replied, "No, we lost". The Commander goes, "Oh well, I didn't like the Kaiser that much anyway."

 

[boogabooga]

The biggest naval engagement of modern history...

How are you counting that? Seems Leyte Gulf had more ships engaged, if you count the entire thing as one battle.

 

[Urwumpe]

How are you counting that? Seems Leyte Gulf had more ships engaged, if you count the entire thing as one battle.

Just that Leyte Gulf was taking place in various places at about 20 times the area.

 

[Andy44]

Just that Leyte Gulf was taking place in various places at about 20 times the area.

It seems that as warfare gets more spread out in time and space the definition of a "battle" becomes harder to nail down.

 

[Urwumpe]

It seems that as warfare gets more spread out in time and space the definition of a "battle" becomes harder to nail down.

Yeah, but still, it feels a bit strange to call multiple engagements of a single campaign a single battle. It is like reducing WW1 to two battles: Battle of the western front and battle of the eastern front.

 

[Andy44]

Yeah, but still, it feels a bit strange to call multiple engagements of a single campaign a single battle. It is like reducing WW1 to two battles: Battle of the western front and battle of the eastern front.

Yes, and yet the Gulf War of '91 was essentially one big battle across a huge front.

 

[boogabooga]

Back on topic. For hose interested, there is this:
http://www.navalwarfare.net/steam&iron.html

I've only tried the demo, but I have their "Rule the Waves," and I feel I learned quite a bit about this period naval history from it.

 

[Notebook]

BBC did a reasonable documentary tonight, only an hour, but it was well done. Covered a lot of stuff in moderate depth:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07dps1x/battle-of-jutland-the-navys-bloodiest-day

Might not get out the UK.

Didn't know the only surviving WWI era Dreadnought is the USS Texas. Well, there you go.
Also caught the end of the new series of Top Gear, no improvement.

Just reading the history of USS Texas during WWII

D-Day[edit]

At 03:00 on 6 June 1944, Texas and the British cruiser Glasgow entered the Omaha Western fire support lane and into her initial firing position 12,000 yd (11,000 m) offshore near Pointe du Hoc at 04:41,[clarification needed] as part of a combined total US-British flotilla of 702 ships, including seven battleships and five heavy cruisers.[46][47][A 8][49]

The initial bombardment commenced at 05:50, against the site of six 15 cm (5.9 in) guns, atop Pointe du Hoc.[2] When Texas ceased firing at the Pointe at 06:24, 255 14 in (360 mm) shells had been fired in 34 minutes—an average rate of fire of 7.5 shells per minute, which was the longest sustained period of firing for Texas in World War II.[46] While shells from the main guns were hitting Pointe du Hoc, the 5 in (130 mm) guns were firing on the area leading up to Exit D-1, the route to get inland from western Omaha. At 06:26, Texas shifted her main battery gunfire to the western edge of Omaha Beach, around the town of Vierville. Meanwhile, her secondary battery went to work on another target on the western end of "Omaha" beach, a ravine laced with strong points to defend an exit road. Later, under control of airborne spotters, she moved her major-caliber fire inland to interdict enemy reinforcement activities and to destroy batteries and other strong points farther inland.[2]

That's quite a rate of fire.

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

Some family business about the event:

http://www.jutland1916.com/

The German naval museum in Wilhelmshaven also has a special exhibition about the event from June on.

 

[Notebook]

Excellent site Urwumpe, thanks for than.

N.

 

[Urwumpe]

The Maps on that page are great material, very detailed drawings.

 

[Notebook]

Well, today is the day.
100 years ago the start of the Battle Of Jutland, arguably the largest naval battle of the 20th century.

The centenary of the biggest naval engagement of World War One is to be marked by commemorative events.

A service at St Magnus Cathedral in Orkney will pay tribute to the 8,648 sailors who died during the Battle of Jutland.

A service of remembrance will also take place on board HMS Duncan at Jutland Bank, the site of the battle.

The battle was fought near the coast of Denmark on 31 May and 1 June 1916 and involved about 250 ships.

It saw the Royal Navy's Grand Fleet, based at Scapa Flow in Orkney, clash with the German High Seas Fleet.
Prime Minister David Cameron and German President Joachim Gauck will be at the service at St Magnus Cathedral in Kirkwall, along with the Princess Royal and her husband Vice Admiral Sir Tim Laurence, representing the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

Events will continue with a service at Lyness Cemetery on the island of Hoy - the final resting place for more than 450 service personnel who died in the war, including sailors killed at Jutland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-36390168

N.