Gaming Spaceway: 2014

[Artlav]

Is there any API docummentation around? (not that I'd expect to have any time to do something soon, but familirizing myself with the possibilities would be nice).

Nothing in a way of a coherent text.

There is a sal-dump.zip file over in that thread, which contains large part of the implementation of SAL over OAPI, so that might explain the general idea.

 

[kamaz]

SW's native interface is in functional Pascal, while Orbiter is object-oriented C++.

Which Pascal compiler do you use?

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Please! Don't make this another religious "my language is the best" thread, would you?
There is NO perfect language for all purposes! (not yet...? )

Well we have a OS WARS MEGATHREAD!!! We must start a PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE WARS MEGATRHEAD!!! And the followers of the language of the probe will prevail above all others!!!

Hail the Probe!!!

Nothing in a way of a coherent text.

There is a sal-dump.zip file over in that thread, which contains large part of the implementation of SAL over OAPI, so that might explain the general idea.

I dont mean to offend, but documentation has always seemed to be the biggest issue with your otherwise great projects. Maybe this summer I could take a crack at writing a nice pdf manual for it to explain some basic usage & features??

Out of curiosity, what are cores? Failed cores seem to show up a lot.

Can there be more chunks? I would love to be able to explore chunk asteroids littered around a gas giants ring system

 

[Izack]

Out of curiosity, what are cores? Failed cores seem to show up a lot.

AFAIK, they are protoplanets like Ceres.

 

[Artlav]

Which Pascal compiler do you use?

FPC or Delphi 7 for the core game, my own for the add-ons.

documentation has always seemed to be the biggest issue with your otherwise great projects. Maybe this summer I could take a crack at writing a nice pdf manual for it to explain some basic usage & features??

I've been trying to make embedded documentation better - all the keys and controls are listed if you press H.
Self-documented game is easier to maintain than a separate PDF.

The devil is in perspective - i can not distinguish what is obvious from what needs documenting, since all of it is obvious to me, and feedback was always rather scarce.

Out of curiosity, what are cores? Failed cores seem to show up a lot.

Gas giant that didn't accumulate enough mass to become one.
Also, things like Venus or Titan.
It is essentially an "everything else" class.

Can there be more chunks? I would love to be able to explore chunk asteroids littered around a gas giants ring system

Lona have 4 marbles, and Puff have 5 screws.

But really, if they are actually that much fun then i might have to make them look better - right now they are kind of lousily rendered with sharp transition and no textures.
I sort of assumed no one would want to ever get near one.

Hm. EVA RCS is a must on one of these - or you can run into orbit with no way back.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

Sorry, Marbles are actually ice balls.

Chunks, hm.
Actually, they can look pretty:

 

[jedidia]

There is a sal-dump.zip file over in that thread, which contains large part of the implementation of SAL over OAPI, so that might explain the general idea.

Hmmm, I see... There's enough there for the autopilots (as this is obviously what it was written for) but not really enough to enhance the interaction of a vessel with its environment (thermodynamics, crew, stuff like that).

 

[Artlav]

Hmmm, I see... There's enough there for the autopilots (as this is obviously what it was written for) but not really enough to enhance the interaction of a vessel with its environment (thermodynamics, crew, stuff like that).

None of it is set in stone.
As you noticed, the thing is only as developed as it's present-time uses.
You can look into warp_ship.txt (things/cfg_vessels) for a few vessel-specific function uses (limiting rotation rate while faster than light), but other than that and maybe an incomprehensible list of native API function names, i have nothing to show.

Making an orthogonal and extensive API was never high on my priority list - as Enjo noted over in SAL thread, i foolishly expected to see some results before spending effort on making a proper add-on API.

So, as i said earlier, SC3 might be your best bet for the time being.
It, and by extension Genericvessel, is quite likely to be developed further and with consistency, to cover ship systems and similar things - think SPSDK, for example.

 

[jedidia]

It, and by extension Genericvessel, is quite likely to be developed further and with consistency, to cover ship systems and similar things - think SPSDK, for example.

Well, that sounds promising

 

[Artlav]

Bugfix 2 for 140119 is out.

Changes:
-Terrain visibility now depends on apparent radius (Chunk rendering is better)
-Improved Surface MFD
-Fixed various module issues

Maybe this summer I could take a crack at writing a nice pdf manual for it to explain some basic usage & features??

Btw, that sounds like a good idea.

Well, that sounds promising

It's a promise i can keep, unlike making a full-blown SAL.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I've been trying to make embedded documentation better - all the keys and controls are listed if you press H.
Self-documented game is easier to maintain than a separate PDF.

The devil is in perspective - i can not distinguish what is obvious from what needs documenting, since all of it is obvious to me, and feedback was always rather scarce.

The in-game help is best, I was just thinking of a sort of "Basics manual", so that someone new to Spaceway could pick up some very distilled knowledge of how to navigate & use this type of sim without needing to already be a KSP or Orbiter vet. Between the interface, & the complex gameplay, & so on, I suspect most users eventually just get confused & give up. Really a shame with such a nice game.

But really, if they are actually that much fun then i might have to make them look better - right now they are kind of lousily rendered with sharp transition and no textures.
I sort of assumed no one would want to ever get near one.

Hm. EVA RCS is a must on one of these - or you can run into orbit with no way back.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

Sorry, Marbles are actually ice balls.

Chunks, hm.
Actually, they can look pretty:

Yeah, I think they look pretty good. The chunk that I landed the DG on was from your default scenario; I could have sworn the feature on its side that I landed in was a procedurally generated crater.

The only picky was the funky landing dynamics, which made the chunkeroid seem like a sponge, but its still pretty smooth.

Thanks for the update on the surface MFD

 

[Scav]

What I see so far I really like -- makes me want to get geared up to run the Wiccan Ware Race. :thumbup:

 

[4throck]

Between the interface, & the complex gameplay, & so on, I suspect most users eventually just get confused & give up. Really a shame with such a nice game....

Indeed. My earlier suggestions about a classical hierarchical menu still stand.
It may look outdated, but it's the best way for a novice to have an idea of what the software does.

For gameplay, you can add a large splash screen to each demo situation. That screen should have a schematic on what the player is supposed to do or see.
Like this examples from World of Tanks wikis and forums:

Do the same for the relevant features in SW.

 

[Artlav]

Between the interface, & the complex gameplay, & so on, I suspect most users eventually just get confused & give up.

Problem is, i am severely handicapped in this respect - i know the game in details, and so am incapable of knowing what is obvious and what is not.

So, i will appreciate any help in the documentation area.

Do the same for the relevant features in SW.

I.e. i was under impression that this is exactly what the two videos in the first post do - show the examples of how to handle typical situations in the game.

Realistic gameplay:
-Your vessel obeys the newton's laws
-If you want to quickly get into orbit, open up the autopilot, select "get me into orbit" preset, press "run"
-Orbit MFD graphs your orbit trajectory

Arcade gameplay:
-Your vessel go where you point
-Engines accelerate and decelerate exponentially
-Gates allow quick travel between places
-You can also travel between planets directly
-You can go interstellar fluidly
-To approach a star, keep pointing slightly off, and decelerating each time it starts to move faster, until you arrive
-You can drive and walk around the surfaces

That's how i read them.
And that is the problem, i suppose?

---------- Post added at 15:47 ---------- Previous post was at 15:44 ----------

What I see so far I really like -- makes me want to get geared up to run the Wiccan Ware Race. :thumbup:

At one point i considered making Spaceway into a remake of Elite.
That is one type of gameplay that fits.
But this was too much work for me to succeed.

 

[Fizyk]

At one point i considered making Spaceway into a remake of Elite.
That is one type of gameplay that fits.
But this was too much work for me to succeed.

A game I would really like to see is something like Spaceway + Wurm Online (something like Minecraft, but more awesome in some ways) - that is, the world from Spaceway with the possibilities and interaction with the environment like in Wurm. That would be the ultimate game, but I saw somewhere on your site that you aren't planning to go in this direction, so this isn't even a suggestion, I guess I just wanted to share my dream

 

[n122vu]

C++ is an userfriendly programming language. It is just selecting its friends very carefully. :lol:

If you're friends with C++, you've got class...

 

[Artlav]

the world from Spaceway with the possibilities and interaction with the environment like in Wurm.

Well, that would be an entirely different game.

The whole point of Spaceway is making as much content with as little data/code as possible.
Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.kkrieger , only bigger and in space.

A fully modifiable world like in Minecraft is a direct opposite of that.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Well, that would be an entirely different game.

The whole point of Spaceway is making as much content with as little data/code as possible.
Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.kkrieger , only bigger and in space.

A fully modifiable world like in Minecraft is a direct opposite of that.

Yeah, but a procedural environment can still be affected by changing the seed that it is generated from, right?

Silly question, but is Earth in the Spaceway universe?

 

[Artlav]

Yeah, but a procedural environment can still be affected by changing the seed that it is generated from, right?

Yeah.

But that is about as viable a method of editing content as making glass sculptures with nuclear bombs in a desert.
Each blast will give you a unique set of figures, but getting a specific shape you have in mind is as close to impossible as it can be.

Silly question, but is Earth in the Spaceway universe?

Nope.
There are look-alikes, however. Like planet Bob you start on.

 

[4throck]

...
I.e. i was under impression that this is exactly what the two videos in the first post do - show the examples of how to handle typical situations in the game.

They are not "in game"! Most people will download SW and simply expect it to come with all the info.

Tried the sim / arcade modes directly, and the difference in control was obvious.

The gates are not obvious (I'm looking at this as a noob / casual user in order to give you a better feedback).
I know there are keys/menus for them, but again, I was expecting some on screen text instructions when I flyed through the gate. I dialed the gate and saw a colored bubble appear, but flew right in. Perhaps I dialed the planet I'm in? Not obvious at all.

Since you are using MFDs, the stargate stuff really belongs there.

I know I didn't read the docs, but I'm assuming 99% of the people just trying out SW will not.
As I said, I'm doing a superficial/casual tryout of SW. If I go in depth, I lose perspective, just like you.


Dream mode:
Now, where do I sign up online to SW? So that I can start earning exploration points by visiting and landing on all the planets, and then see the stats on a big online player stats list?

 

[Artlav]

They are not "in game"! Most people will download SW and simply expect it to come with all the info.

Yeah, as i said, i am handicapped in that respect.

It's a regret humans are not self-modifying. Otherwise i could have removed the memories of SW for a while, and tried playing it.

So, basically go Valve on it, and include on-screen instructions each time some situation comes up for the first time?
Like, if you approach a gate you'd get a description of the controls?

Dream mode:
Now, where do I sign up online to SW? So that I can start earning exploration points by visiting and landing on all the planets, and then see the stats on a big online player stats list?

I wonder if i'd better check out some online games.
Other than Minecraft i never played any, and these days i'm not likely to get addicted to anything.

Just what is the point?
Would someone really try to visit all of approximately 247330401473104534060502521019647190035131349101211839914063056092897225106531867170316401061243044989597671426016139339351365034306751209967546155101893167916606772148699136 planets in Spaceway, just because a site gives points for that?