Internet The need for technology (Was: Urban Guerilla)

[Staiduk]

Ahhhh Tmac - did you ever hit the nail on the head there. I never thought of applying Paul Simon's magnificent words to the argument; I have always viewed them as parable regarding the desolation of urban life. But you're absolutely right - when we wrap a shell of artificial connection around ourselves we are worshipping the silence from outside, aren't we?

Thanks for reminding me of that song - and for reminding me just how important it is in today's age.

(Edit: Totally unimportant side-question: does anyone know which festival this video was taken from? It looks like The Burning Man; I know Simon loves that festival but I don't know for certain. )

 

[Eccentrus]

well this might be weird because I can totally understand FADEC's point, although not as extreme as he does. After trying to get the sleekiest newest cellphones in my teenage years, I now am happily satisfied with a low-end entry-level blackberry which have a turd of a processing power and connectability compared to the latest gizmos made by Samsung or Apple. The main reason I'm having a cellphone is not that I am addicted to it, or "have to follow" with the populace, but rather so that I can be contacted whenever there's emergency and also because a landline here is more expensive than a cellphone in the long term (long story), and of course the added ability to chat a buddy who is on a computer when I'm lost somewhere (I don't have GPS) and just say "hey bro, I'm at this shop at that street can you send me how to get to that office?" is pretty nice, but not essential, now and then my pops and I would just ask the nearby locals who can always give you a much better picture of where you're heading more than a GPS-service ever could, except perhaps inside forests or some other natural landscapes where it is harder to look for a landmark, it is there that this kind of technology becomes absolutely essential. Then again I live in a country where Taxi drivers' memories are more reliable than GPS-service, what do I know. And any day, I would have FADEC's choice of having a tablet rather than a cellphone, it have much more of a functionality, even if it's not as powerful as the SIII simply by having a larger screen (can help me relax by watching TV shows inside my commuter cars for example). Of course there are always those things that are becoming better as they are newer such as the digital camera, which development of more and more accurate lenses and better sensors each year is essential for the betterment of its primary function. But I simply think that cellphones aren't one of them, which is why the makers are trying to market it as a portable computer instead, I'm sorry but I already have my notebook.

 

[FADEC]

In the end the only difference between the tablet computer you've bought and a smartphone is size.

Yes. But it's not meant to be used for phone calls. I personally didn't buy it for communication anyway. I bought it to basically safe "weight" and money. Because I'm not in the mood anymore to print or buy thousands of pages of aviation and space flight literature and documents. That's why you'll find electronic flight bags in the cockpit of modern airliners for example. In the future the amount of paper will be become more and more limited in a cockpit but also elsewhere I guess.

There is a common misconception regarding a lifestyle like mine. People always think it's a matter of going backwards and refusal of modern technology. But this is not the case at all. It's just a different lifestyle to a common modern lifestyle. One can perfectly live in solitude and in close touch with nature and still combine it with modern technology for being connected to the entire world via internet and a small notebook for example. I only don't like cell phones, cars, and cities with more than 10k inhabitants.

It's just great and rather relaxing to sit in front of a big woodstove, drink a tea, while watching your home made pizza being baked, but also have a notebook within range just in case you have to look for something or you want to know something. Nothing beats the smell and sound of wood fire in your house. You could give me a modern, soulless mainstream Ikea kitchen and the best electric stove. I'll give it away to someone else with pleasure.

Oh, yeah, we're all so naïve,

Not naive but dependent.

O Enlightened One.

It's not enlightenment. It's economy.

please try to outgrow the "why can't everyone be just like me" phase.

You don't have to become like me. Just like I don't have to become like everyone else

What you call a phase actually is your own feeling of being offended I think. This is not uncommon whenever there are people which live a different life to what is usually expected a normal life as influenced and predetermined by industries, markets, advertising, the media, politics, and the educational system. One either has to be crazy/strange/backwardly, or trying to restrict the life of others. It's equal to mentioning if one is vegetarian. There are always people which immediately feel offended and think "so that guy intends to instruct me and take away my meat".

Do whatever you want, and live your life how you want to live. That's what I do as well.

Don't you have anyone you need calling, or whom may need your help, when you're not working?

Only a very limited circle of people. They know that I'm only available by phone for a few hours a day, or sometimes not at all by phone but only by mail.

 

[Eccentrus]

It's just great and rather relaxing to sit in front of a big woodstove, drink a tea, while watching your home made pizza being baked, but also have a notebook within range just in case you have to look for something or you want to know something. Nothing beats the smell and sound of wood fire in your house. You could give me a modern, soulless mainstream Ikea kitchen and the best electric stove. I'll give it away to someone else with pleasure.

precisely! although living where I am means that (and because of) if I want to plan a family and prepare the investment for the best education for my children, I have to live somewhere in one of the millions-population cities. Where I am have 2 million inhabitants, and 5 if you count the surrounding areas, but interestingly, it have this mountain range up north and there's my plans to build my house. I also have a fancy of tea, and I'm still seeking a safe way to have a charcoal stove to cook my tea (chinese-style FTW) in my small boarding house room, well if you are space-tight, those IKEA soul less machines are simply the only thing that fits the bill and the safety, I don't even trust gas stoves as much as the electric one (our gas company is so bad, the blown cannister cans are everyday news here). Well with my experience there's nothing better than having a sip of tea in your quiet backyards looking at the mountain after the hassle of your daily life, it is superbly relaxing, away from the pesky modern society, but I think even then I would be called so often on my cell by the hospital I would be working in, well you know, every job have its perks. And especially nothing beats the smell of wood-baked potatos and corns, oh damn I miss my childhood days where me and my extended families were doing this every year.

 

[llarian]

As to the cell phone issue, I've got one. Telephone only for when I want to use it. As to connectivity, if someone can't leave a message, they really didn't want to talk to me in the first place.

The vehicle issue is interesting. Whether biologic (read: horse) or mechanical, we've always had them. I don't own a motor vehicle, which is most unusual in North America. The main difference between here and Europe (Russia notwithstanding) is that human civic development has been going on a lot longer in Europe. Many villages and cities relatively close. North America, the towns are considerably farther apart. So in this aspect a vehicle makes sense. However, it still seems to be primarily a status issue (isn't everything?)

Technology has been around since the beginning of the species ... especially in better ways to kill each other. Not much of a blessing that. But generally it has enabled us to more effectively deal with a hostile environment. Sure some would like to eschew technology altogether. Where health is concerned, I'll take the technology.

Technology also helps us to reach beyond ourselves. It also encourages us to improve in any way we can. I think it may also help us to circumvent the more evil influences around us ... like politicians and other animals intent on trying to "control" us.

But it is a question of balance. If it all fails, like in what has been described as "The Fall" (much anticipated in the last two million years and hasn't actually happened yet), how will you survive without it? Most of you won't. Some of us will (most likely those who have an appreciation for real Nature ... like the view in Jasper).

All that being said, I could just as soon do without cell phones. It's getting to be a real pain trying to dodge the idiots that insist on texting while driving while I'm trying to bicycle around them.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Technology also helps us to reach beyond ourselves. It also encourages us to improve in any way we can. I think it may also help us to circumvent the more evil influences around us ... like politicians and other animals intent on trying to "control" us.

Hmmm, well as far as "other animals" goes, my dog has a pretty good hold on me; when he wants a rub behind the ears, he gets it.

If I really had my way, I think an "unfortunate accident" would happen to my cell phone. Its really just a way for people to communicate with you when you don't need to be communicating.

 

[Codz]

If I really had my way, I think an "unfortunate accident" would happen to my cell phone. Its really just a way for people to communicate with you when you don't need to be communicating.

Or to call for help when you or someone near you needs it.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

...if someone can't leave a message, they really didn't want to talk to me in the first place.

Excellent point.

I'm amazed at the time my wife and kid will both take having a text "conversation" with someone. They'd rather type on the freakin' thing rather than talk through it.

Even stranger to me; is the talk-to-text converter. You speak to the phone, tell it to text person x. Then talk, Suri (or what have you) changes the speech to text, then sends it as a text to person x. Why not, oh, I don't know, actually talk to the person, or at the very least leave them a message?

Me thinks "social media" has made us less social, at least in person.

Now my nephew has aspergers (a mild form of it). HIM I can understand being a bit more comfortable communicating in that manner. But if he never makes an attempt, he'll never work it out.

edit...
I recognize cell phones being a useful tool. But not a crutch.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Or to call for help when you or someone near you needs it.

Okay, point taken, but I often feel that I would still rather take my chances without it. That point is made quite often, but how can you prove that having a cell phone handy doesn't lead to a false sense of security, and reckless decisions?

 

[TMac3000]

Welcome to you first foray in the Basement, Bruce.
A word of advice: step carefully. These guys do not play around

 

[Keatah]

There's been enough research and interviewing to demonstrate that constant use of smartphones for gaming in idle moments curtails your creativity. You don't get the downtime needed to deep think anything.

This is part of the dumbing down that's in progress in many tech-heavy societies. Creativity is less, "zombieism" is more.

 

[llarian]

You know, I haven't heard of a lot of incidents where cell phones have actually been used to call for help. I know of a couple of them where they actually recorded the last moments of someone's life but didn't actually bring the help that they are touted to be used for. That being said, the most successful uses of cell phones for "help" that I know of have been by snowbirds, visiting warmer areas on this continent, when being approached by what seems to be a threatening situation, picked up their cell phones, made an obvious show of making the use of it "visible" and the situation evaporated (the miscreant got out of dodge).

A cell phone shaped rock would have been just as effective.

Other than that, have you ever been walked into by someone who has had their head down texting someone? Actually happened to me. At least the decollatage was impressive. But talk about wishing for a Darwin moment.

Then again, given the current state of male misogynism, aggression and outright ignorant behaviour where lone females (or females in general) are concerned, I can see the advancement in safety (or apparent safety) that modern communication technology can afford.

 

[Codz]

Okay, point taken, but I often feel that I would still rather take my chances without it. That point is made quite often, but how can you prove that having a cell phone handy doesn't lead to a false sense of security, and reckless decisions?

I don't see how cowering under a desk and calling the police would make anyone reckless. If, for a medical example, someone near you goes into cardiac arrest, you have around four minutes to act before tissue starts dying. That means four minutes to begin exercising any training you may have, and four minutes to notify and recieve EMS. The more seconds you can cut out of calling for EMS by having a phone handy, the more seconds you have to actually begin performing critical on-scene exercises.(CPR, AED, etc.)

 

[Keatah]

I don't buy that one. I called for EMS while doing CPR and while my buddy pulling some guy out of a wreck. You dial EMS and put 'em on speakerphone. The call may take several minutes, but getting them on the horn takes but a few seconds at longest.


Or someone else can call..

---------- Post added at 01:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 AM ----------

If you can't do the EMS call and switch to speakerphone then it is time to practice. Stop playing Farmville or AngryBirds and step to it!

---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 AM ----------

I would never be without a cellphone. But it isn't a smartphone, and I don't play games on it. It is for voice calls, and the occasional text message to appease some text-crazed family members.

You have my number you can call me. Sure send me an email too. I'll read it when I sit my ass down at the computer. If I miss answering your phone call, leave me voicemail. I will get back to you as soon as I can.

I went to a funeral luncheon 2 weeks ago and some ass jerk was conducting business non-stop for the entire duration. Must have done 10+ calls in 2 hours. Answered god knows how many emails. While his kids played some twitch game or something. And his kids were playing these games in the funeral precession too! Fer'chrissakes!! What has this world come to? It's a goddammed disease! This instant communication.

---------- Post added at 01:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 AM ----------

One more thing. We're out at the flower garden enjoying the tulips and daffodils and all that. And some lady in the cafeteria had 2 iPads, and iPhone, and I suspect and iPod touch. Managing all that and trying to eat lunch and read the noozpaper. Ughh..

And people complain they can't get a hold of me in a timely fashion.. Screw that! I'm not going to burden myself with tech. As much as I like cool electronics, having it in my face is really annoying.

 

[Codz]

but getting them on the horn takes but a few seconds at longest.

With a cellphone. I doubt it would take seconds to walk to a payphone or find someone's housephone(if they have one). The point being, that cellphones(smart or otherwise) are far easier to reach and use than a housephone or payphone.

 

[Ghostrider]

Technology is a tool, nothing more. I like having a GPS with me but I can still navigate with a map and compass, just like I can do simple math in my head instead of reaching for a calculator. As for "curtailing creativity", since I'm also a part-time writer, the wealth of games and pastimes on my computer are more of a temptation than anything on my smartphone. It's about discipline.

If one doesn't need the tech, fine. If one wants to be Thoreaux-idal, then fine, be Thoreaux-idal. But regarding everybody else as foolish, naïve or "dependant on the eeeevul corporations" is not only absurd, it's laughable. We could rant for months how the internet actually damaged the ability of people to do proper research and how it completely destroyed any civility in communication, but for anyone who hasn't been here during the Home Computer Revolution, the same arguments were made against personal computers back then.

In the end, we're better off with more tools than with less, as long as we know how to cope when those tools aren't available.

How can we prove than having a cellphone doesn't lead to a false sense of security? For those who don't know much about me, I carry a firearms as part of my trade and if that doesn't me any particular sense of security, a phone certainly won't. I have a fire extinguisher at home, I check it regularly, it doesn't give me a "sense of security". Same with my first aid training, or my well-suppiled first-aid kid and medicine cabinet. Or my wife combined emergency starter-tire inflating compressor-flashlight-power supply. But it's better to have the stuff and not need it than need it and not have it.

The rest is a matter of self-discipline. Anyone has a right to be different. I certainly am different from most people (I think the proper word is "bizarre"). But flaunting your difference and ranting about how your way is "better" and how the rest of us are market zombies only makes me laugh.

 

[Keatah]

ehh. Maybe I mis-read the posting. Having a cellphone with a good signal is always a plus.

Then again, given the current state of male misogynism, aggression and outright ignorant behaviour where lone females (or females in general) are concerned, I can see the advancement in safety (or apparent safety) that modern communication technology can afford.

I know several women that have been raped and beaten. They didn't have time to get their phone out. OR didn't plan on having one close by because they thought they were safe company. Then the men just turned around got to it. Seemingly no reason whatsoever.

BTW: what's with the rise in misogynism anyhow? And what role does tech play in it? Good or bad.

 

[Ghostrider]

That unfortunately is true with any defence. If it's not readily available, and your guard is down, not even an assault rifle (a proper one) will save you.

As for misogynism, it's not on the rise di per se. Lack of empathy and violence seem to be, but to consider violence against women as different or worse than violence against men is a disservice to women. We happen to have this thing about "equality" which I take seriously (although I admit to keeping doors open for a lady and such, but I'm a bizarre type). Bad people prey on those who are perceived as weaker, unfortunately.

 

[Urwumpe]

Bad people prey on those who are perceived as weaker, unfortunately.

And cowards prey on those who are perceived as far weaker and no danger at all to them.

 

[Face]

Welcome to you first foray in the Basement, Bruce.
A word of advice: step carefully. These guys do not play around

This is no basement thread. Please don't treat it as such for your own good.

On the topic of handys: I also have one... switched off most of the time, only used for calling when I need it. It is one of the low-cost Nokias without a cam or games or whatnot. The battery lasts about a week with my usage habits, and the pre-payed credit is at ca. 30€ since... about 2 years. The only time I fill up this credits is when it would expire due to non-usage .

I also don't get why so many people are close to addiction when it comes to phones. But then again I don't see me as "normal", as I also believe that there is no infinite growth in our economy system, that there will be no new oil age due to fracking, and that civilization is nothing more than a thin facade on the face of an animal capable of all kinds of terrors. But hey, who wants to be "normal", anyway? "Normal" is just what the majority is doing, right? :lol:

regards,
Face