TKS Spacecraft

[Scruce]

Just the raw meshes or did you already do an add-on of it?

Raw meshes + textured materials.

 

[Urwumpe]

Raw meshes + textured materials.

Well, better than nothing, but can't you at least pretend a Spacecraft3.dll vessel for it?

 

[Scruce]

I'm a native mesher and really not good with Spacecraft3s.

 

[4throck]

Palm trees are not white? But the photo is so clear about it! Why doubt the photo?

(btw, that is a photo in infrared, a part of the spectrum under which leaves are very reflective).

Pointless comparison. I'm well aware of infrared contamination. Also of UV contamination. This is not the point. The old soviet spacecraft look the same green on all photos, regardless of the film used. Occam's razor alone will indicated that the simplest explanation is that green is the real color....

But I thought the modern digital photos disagreed:

Also, the picture of the greenish Soyuz-thing on Earth does not really prove much, as it could have been covered with a greenish cloth (just as illustrations made the spacecraft appear green). And why would the space environment immediately make a thermal cloth turn green?

Modern photos of old hardware of course. The green cloth you mention is the green thermal insulation!

Actually, the ISS modules, MIR and Progress all look different, although the basic thermal insulation is supposed to be the same.

As to why they should "green" over time, I don't know. I do know that material in space does change color very quickly. Look at this Apollo docked to Skylab. Is the photographic film to blame? There is a blue cast due to the Earth in the background, but regardless of that, the spacecraft looks brown.

 

[RisingFury]

I'm a native mesher and really not good with Spacecraft3s.

All you have to do is tell it where the engines are, RCS thrusters and what aerodynamics model to choose. How hard can that be?

 

[Scruce]

Hmm...alright, I'll see what I can do.

Thanks RF.

 

[4throck]

I'm a native mesher and really not good with Spacecraft3s.

Take your time. :thumbup: It is good to have the meshes, but the job will be incomplete without at least a basic SC3 implementation.

Only you, the mesher, can get the fairing size right, to the millimeter, regarding the rocket used to launch. Also, only you know exactly were everything is (like to coordinates for the RCS, camera positions, etc, etc.

Start with the simple on orbit configuration, and set up your separations, docking ports, etc. Look at the Soyuz 7K or Shenzou addons for a possible implementation (not perfect, but will get you going).

 

[Urwumpe]

Occam's razor alone will indicated that the simplest explanation is that green is the real color....

No, the simplest explanation is that you see something green on a photograph. All the rest, is not simple: Which camera was used? Which film? Which light conditions?

The thermal insulation does really have some strange reflective properties, but greenish reflections of it are not mentioned.

Take a look at this photograph: Ignore the spacecraft. What colors should now be around there? Look at the forward dome of the Block I in the background. It should be polished metal, but is actually khaki. if you pay attention at the details of the spacecraft, the shadow of the solar arrays folded against the white radiator surface is greenish.

Modern photos of old hardware of course. The green cloth you mention is the green thermal insulation!

It is not. It is actually cheap green cloth. This module there was also never flown in space, it was just a test article. It was likely restored for exhibitions with green cloth, the Russians did that pretty often.

Actually, the ISS modules, MIR and Progress all look different, although the basic thermal insulation is supposed to be the same.

Even more: Every spacecraft looks different on different photographs!

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

PS: For spacecraft3, you don't need to know where the thrusters really are, it is enough that you place the exhausts where they should be approximately. Spacecraft3.dll vehicles have very simple attitude control.

 

[Scruce]

I've decided now, that i'm going to go further than a mesh and texture to a full addon.

Planned features include:

- Custom TKS fairing.
- Kosmos 1686 modified VA capsule
- Spacecraft3 implementation

Possibility of Almaz (OPS-3) station.

 

[4throck]

Take a look at this photograph:...

No image came through.

Even more: Every spacecraft looks different on different photographs!

Completely agree.:tiphat:

We should move this discution to a new, dedicated thread. We can respost all reference images and discuss it properly there.
Otherwise we are just complicating Scruce's progress.

Nice to hear that a full addon is coming.

 

[T.Neo]

Pointless comparison. I'm well aware of infrared contamination. Also of UV contamination. This is not the point.

My point is that what you see on a photograph and what you see in reality are not necessarily the same thing.

The green cloth you mention is the green thermal insulation!

What Urwumpe said. They were perfectly capable of putting green cloth on that exhibit.

Look at this Apollo docked to Skylab. Is the photographic film to blame? There is a blue cast due to the Earth in the background, but regardless of that, the spacecraft looks brown.

It doesn't look brown to me, it looks silver and white, and a bit discoloured. But at least there are explanations to that-like RCS exhaust. Or even aeroheating on ascent.

 

[Scruce]

SketchUp does not like to keep .dds textures, so I am remapping the mesh in Wings3D, it's taking time since I have to edit one face at a time, but i'm getting there:

(TKS in orbit configuration)

EDIT: I'll edit the first post with the done/to do list.

---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

I've now UV mapped the BSO, VA and SAS. The FGB is next up.

 

[Urwumpe]

You still lack the maneuvering engines of the TKS, which are pretty important since it is a spacetug in one of its incarnations...

How about making an add-on about the full family of TKS spacecraft, I just looked there is even a British company aiming at making the Merkur capsule a tourist ride?

also, the tanks are not alone outside the main structure, there is a lot of stuff behind and around the radiator shells, the tanks are forming the borders of each radiator quadrant. (And the hull mounted radiators are white in Russian spacecraft.)

 

[Scruce]

You still lack the maneuvering engines of the TKS, which are pretty important since it is a spacetug in one of its incarnations...

I have modelled all the engines according to this flash graphic:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/tks.html

Braking Engine,
Docking and Stabilisation engines,
Rendezvous and correction engines,

...have all been modelled in my design. What have I missed out?

 

[4throck]

Rendevouz and correction engines? Did you put them on the other side of the spacecraft?

 

[Scruce]

Rendevouz and correction engines? Did you put them on the other side of the spacecraft?

Yes, I put the on the right side, the picture shows a bottom-up view.

 

[4throck]

What Urwumpe said. They were perfectly capable of putting green cloth on that exhibit.

I've opened a topic so that we can discuss here elsewhere. Nevertheless, why would the Russians choose a green cloth? Why the not neutral grey? Or any other color?

---------- Post added at 18:59 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------




Yes, I put the on the right side, the picture shows a bottom-up view.

Put it on both sides. Those things general work in pairs, otherwise the spacecraft would spin !

See this illustration:
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/tks.htm

 

[Scruce]

Put it on both sides. Those things general work in pairs, otherwise the spacecraft would spin !

Sure, i'll do it, but that means I have to discard all of todays UV work .

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

I've taken a step back to meshing, with some review it seems parts of the TKS are left out in the mesh.

- I'm going to flatten the solar panels, sure it's a nice effect having them slightly bendy but it makes a real hard problem for UV mapping.
- I'm going to add the PGTs and telemetry antennae (they were missed out originally)
- I'm going to group the meshes properly this time, to make animations easier.

I've added the Correction and Renddezvous engines on both sides this time:

A side note to any of the site staff, could this thread please be moved into the Addon Development part of the Forum.

 

[4throck]

Good progress there. Take your time and mesh everything until YOU are happy. No matter if it takes days, weeks or months ! The same goes for texturing and configurations.

 

[mc_]

Merkur capsule

Why do you always use this word? TKS VA (rus ТКС ВА) was never called so, the word "Merkur" is, actually, just a translator's misheard.
(original phrase was "this one looks like your Mercury", but translator didn't heared the full sentence...)

P.S: