Avsim hacked!

[Tex]

Today, will be the beginning. As AVSIM has been hit we can be next. I will be making a defense program to defend us, AVSIM, and every other site from hacks! I need helpers so this program can be made. Mods, make a forum for the construction of this anti-hacker program. It is Defense of Hackers. Note: It may double as an anti viral program. Also, I will find the hackers and send viruses into their computers destroying them. I have deadly viruses ready for when I find them.

So who's with me!

Not me...

For one thing, the server we're on is run by Vash who knows his stuff when it comes to security. On top of that the forum software we use is the most secure bulletin board software available with updates and security patches released as soon as any vulnribility is found. That's not to say it's impossible to hack as anything can be hacked. But I can assure you we've already taken all the appropriate security measures to ensure the community is safe including daily, off site backups which ensures we can restore the site should it ever be effected by a hacking attempt.

I can't speak for AVSIM, but I'm quite sure their position would be the same as mine when it comes to your idea of sending viruses to hackers. This is illegal first and foremost, regardless of the fact you may be sending it to someone attempting to hack the site. As such we certainly can not support any action like that. I have to ask that we do not discuss the idea of sending anyone a virus. This site can not be used in any unlawful way. Please see our TOS Policy for more information.

Regards,
O-F Staff

 

[Woo482]

lol Liberator you just got moaned at by Tex and also read a bit about the law against hacking/virus making

 

[Moonwalker]

While it is not possible, at least not easily possible, to actually "destroy" hardware via viruses. This is mostly myths, like an erased BIOS, which is often wrongly misinterpreted as broken hardware.

The efforts to destroy hardware are way too tough to be easily done, especially in huge numbers. Of course you could force to overclock a CPU, GPU or other components. But that's not easily done by small wannabe hackers. And if you ask me, this requires a lot of criminal energy. I'm totally against it on the whole.

 

[insane_alien]

you can break stuff that moves quite easily, just do it by excessive wear, like starting and stopping a harddrive several times per second with the read/write head jittering all over th platters will cause its lifetime to be drastically shortened. there are some things you can do to old CRT monitors as well. but most stuff cannot be destroyed by software, especially now that CPU's have thermal cut-offs

 

[Moonwalker]

If it would be possible "quite easily" we would see tons of hardware destroyed like we see tons of viruses going around.

 

[Notebook]

Apologies for bringing up an old thread:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8244028.stm

N/

 

[TSPenguin]

It will be interesting to get more details on the motive and techniques used.
In any case, I am really happy to see some justice happening.

 

[Brad]

Geez... Tom gave this guy two opportunities to come clean and he passed on both... guess an 8X8 cell is next. $50,000 dollars to bring AVSIM back... wonder if there will be a civil lawsuit as well. Could be classified as international terrorism under the Patriot Act? If so, this guy could face US prosecution as well. Get GITMO ready..

 

[Pilot7893]

Ha ha, nice to see some justice happening. I still just want to know why he would do such a thing. Is he against simulations or something?

 

[Shadow Addict]

Ha ha, nice to see some justice happening. I still just want to know why he would do such a thing. Is he against simulations or something?

I doubt it. I don't know much about this specific situation, but I feel like it's either someone who has a problem with Avsim itself or just someone looking for an easy target.

 

[Andy44]

Could be classified as international terrorism under the Patriot Act? If so, this guy could face US prosecution as well. Get GITMO ready..

Seriously?

 

[Usonian]

Usonian swipe at Tex in 'Avsim hacked!' thread

It will be interesting to get more details on the motive and techniques used.
In any case, I am really happy to see some justice happening.

Agreed!

I suppose the most likely suspects would be an inside job: either a disgruntled employee/site moderator, or some user who got burned (or banned) in a forum flame war. I have not participated in the AVSIM forums, so I don't know if they have the strict rules and watchful administration we have here. (Perhaps someone else can say?)

I enjoyed passionate off-topic discussions on Orbiter-Forum in the past, and was disappointed that Tex felt obliged to play head master and make us all behave like little Victorian gentlemen. But this unpleasantness with AVSIM may illustrate his wisdom in doing so.

It's all speculation, on my part. But if AVSIM really knows who the vandal is, then it seems likely the guy is someone having a long association with the site, rather than a random hacker looking for fun.

As for acts of terrorism (Brad), I'm with Andy, are you kidding? Maybe current U.S. law would treat it as such, but surely rational thought would not. Does this event leave anyone feeling terrified? Disappointed, angry and disgusted with small minds and motives, yes. I hope they do have the goods on this guy, make him pay cash for the damage he's done, and put him in jail for being a criminal and such a stubborn jerk. But let's refrain from calling every criminal a terrorist.

 

[n122vu]

I agree that this is not a terrorist act in the traditional sense of terrorism, but I guess it depends on how the law is worded. If this is considered, by the law, an attack from a foreign source with malicious intent that resulted in significant financial loss, then it may be viewed as such. I don't agree this guy should be lumped in with the same lot as some of the more famous groups that have attacked this and other nations. However, I would guess it depends on a)how the law is written, and b)whether a judge/jury feels he violated that law.

Make him pay back the money, spend some time in jail, but don't put him on a permanent watch list. That's my opinion.

 

[insanity]

In no way could an attack on AVSIM be deemed terrorism. Even with the Patriot Act, you could not call a cyber attack on a flightsim website as an act of terrorism. The suspect, if guilty, will probably not serve actual jailtime. Instead he will probably be put on probation with a loss of computer access and forced to pay damages.

That said, I'm not an expert on English law or international 'net security protocols. From what I understand from Scottish law (which I've helped write), all of Britain has an overcrowding issues with prisons and so it's hard to see this sort of crime have significant jail-time.

 

[simonpro]

Actually I think that article 814 of Act 8 could allow prosecution as a terrorist. It'd be a pretty stupid thing to do, though. It's only some website at the end fo the day.

From what I understand from Scottish law

Scotland has laws?

 

[insanity]

Actually I think that article 814 of Act 8 could allow prosecution as a terrorist. It'd be a pretty stupid thing to do, though. It's only some website at the end fo the day.



Scotland has laws?

At the risk of going off-topic, yes, Scotland has its own legal system. Part of the Act of Union was that Scotland was able to retain their vastly different legal system, but that the Law Lords in the House of Lords would serve as the court of final appeal in Constitutional matters. For most everything else, Scotland's High Court in Edinburgh serves as the court of final appeal. Below them are the Sheriff Courts which have a wide-range of jurisdiction from petty theft up to murder. The recent Lockerbie bomber case showed that Scotland's Justice Minister (and one-time drinking-buddy) Kenny McAskill has much more influence over criminal matters in Scotland than the British Government.

Also, are you talking about Title VIII of the USA Patriot Act which has an unauthorized access to protected computers clause? That clause amended the US Code Title 18,1030 (which can be read here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html)

I don't think you will find a prosecutor willing to argue that AVSIM falls under the scope of the Act to be defined as terrorism (The Patriot Act only amended the US Code in regards to protected computers). That said, the action is clearly prosecutable under that same title of the U.S. Federal Code as a civil manner under the unprotected computer clause.

 

[Andy44]

To call an attack on a flight sim hobby website "terrorism" is to make a mockery of the concept of terrorism.

Of course, that would be about par for the course in the modern world, where every government official has to be a drama queen.

 

[Brad]

In bringing this up, the questions as to what the law interprets terrorism is may be far different than what we think it means. Now I agree that AVSIM is just a hobby site and my initial intent was to ask if the Patriot Act would apply. I think it would in certain circumstance... but I'm not a lawyer.

I mean if CHASE or AIG or some other financial website and customer database was wiped out by a hacker, would the United States go after who ever did it using the Patriot Act? My guess would YES. So what makes AVSIM different other than the fact it is a hobby site. The financial lost to Tom and the adverts are just a real.

 

[Andy44]

I mean if CHASE or AIG or some other financial website and customer database was wiped out by a hacker, would the United States go after who ever did it using the Patriot Act? My guess would YES.

The answer would be "yes" only because prosecuters use whatever law they can to get a conviction, and really aren't known for displaying restraint, so you are essentially correct.

It doesn't matter what the intent of the PATRIOT ACT was, it is viewed as just another tool to "get ya".

Nevertheless, it is a rather controversial law and was clearly sold as a means of fighting terrorism. Real, bombing, hijacking, cyber-attack on the Pentagon-style terrorism. Not hacking a hobby website.

You know this, any lawyer with a sense of judgement knows this, and for this reason you know that it is not appropriate to treat this attack as a terrorist act. An ethical prosecuter would avoid using this law.

In fact, attacking AIG's website is not a terrorist act, either, unless you can prove that it was meant to bring about political or social changes through the use or threat of the use of violence.

Otherwise both these cyber attacks are just electronic acts of vandalism or arson or whatever analogy suits.

But as we Americans are now expected to be drama queens following 9/11, looking under every bed for terrorists, and, as it's fashionable to call for extreme acts of semi-legal revenge for every little crime, call it terrorism if it makes you feel better.

 

[insanity]

In bringing this up, the questions as to what the law interprets terrorism is may be far different than what we think it means. Now I agree that AVSIM is just a hobby site and my initial intent was to ask if the Patriot Act would apply. I think it would in certain circumstance... but I'm not a lawyer.

I mean if CHASE or AIG or some other financial website and customer database was wiped out by a hacker, would the United States go after who ever did it using the Patriot Act? My guess would YES. So what makes AVSIM different other than the fact it is a hobby site. The financial lost to Tom and the adverts are just a real.

If Chase or AIG were attacked in a way that harmed U.S. Security (including economic security) then the Patriot Act would apply. The Act does not mention unprotected computer networks (AVSIM does not meet the definition of protected computer as defined by the Act).

When dealing with the Patirot Act, you have to remember that it mostly amends only certain sections of the U.S. Code.

You'll never find a lawyer who would go after this from a terrorism angle. You will, however, find many lawyers looking for an easy civil case.