Want to Form New Virtual Space Agency

[EricEvan]

Hi Everyone,

Some of you may know me from when I started VOSSA (Virtual Online Spaceflight Simulation Agency) earlier this year. It never really got off to a start. I admit this is probably because I was really anxious to get it running, as I'd been missing SimNASA since it closed in 2009. We managed to do one mission and never really got to do another one.

For those of you who told me that we were getting off on a bad start, you were right. I didn't put enough planning into it to keep it running beyond one mission.

However, this time I want to do it differently. Let's plan it out. Let's try to be more realistic. Let's not rush to start our first mission. Let's design a website that doesn't have flaws.

Nazban, Eli13, Pinguinboy, kevin580, and any one else who participated in VOSSA, I'd love to have you participate in this as well.

So, is anyone interested?

 

[mojoey]

Hi Everyone,

Some of you may know me from when I started VOSSA (Virtual Online Spaceflight Simulation Agency) earlier this year. It never really got off to a start. I admit this is probably because I was really anxious to get it running, as I'd been missing SimNASA since it closed in 2009. We managed to do one mission and never really got to do another one.

For those of you who told me that we were getting off on a bad start, you were right. I didn't put enough planning into it to keep it running beyond one mission.

However, this time I want to do it differently. Let's plan it out. Let's try to be more realistic. Let's not rush to start our first mission. Let's design a website that doesn't have flaws.

Nazban, Eli13, Pinguinboy, ky, and any one else who participated in VOSSA, I'd love to have you participate in this as well.

So, is anyone interested?

Hrmmm....

Seeing as ive started my own VSA the 'OIP', i dont think it would be wise of me to join a VSA, while running a VSA. The idea is good, however...try flying one or two missions and see if it will work, before commiting to a website

 

[Mojave]

I would be, if you can prove that it will "get off of the ground". I wouldn't want to join something to see it fail. I will have to review your stuff first. I look forward to seeing your progress

 

[garyw]

Let's not rush to start our first mission. Let's design a website that doesn't have flaws.

It wasn't the website that had flaws. It was the rush into doing something, anything, without content.

I believe I said this previous and I'll point it out again, you need content. I have people asking to join ISA because I've got some depth to what I'm doing and where I am taking it. Without that it's just a forum.

Now, I'm not trying to be cruel here but you say on the OFSS-III thread that you want to do a mission but that you need help changing orbits and docking. How can you run a VSA without having those sorts of skills? you need to be able to understand when your pilots are having difficulties and be able to assist.

I wish you luck but I think that you need to get more skill in orbiter and decide what you want to do, fly some missions, get the content and THEN open it up.

 

[ky]

Nazban, Eli13, Pinguinboy, ky, and any one else who participated in VOSSA, I'd love to have you participate in this as well.

Sorry, I do not want to join.

 

[EricEvan]

Sorry, I do not want to join.

I understand completely.

 

[PeriapsisPrograde]

I have never been in a VSA, but might be interested.

 

[RisingFury]

This thread itself indicates that the new VSA - if you do create it - will fail. Why? Because you're basically saying: "Come on, let's build a VSA together."

What you should be saying is: "I'll build a VSA, I'll come up with a game plan and I'll start flying missions. If it works out, I'll invite people."

Lots of people would gladly join garyw's VSA if invited, so you should copy his operating style.

 

[EricEvan]

Yes, I do want to build the VSA with others. I'm not exactly the best at Orbiter, so I can't do all of the missions, but others can. In addition, they can help me come up with plans for future missions. If I come up with them on my own, it won't be as fun, interesting, or realistic (working in a team).

 

[RisingFury]

Yes, I do want to build the VSA with others.

No, if you want it, build it yourself. THEN invite others.


This:

I'm not exactly the best at Orbiter, so I can't do all of the missions, but others can.

means that you want others to do the job for you. That just won't work. You tried it before and dozens have tried before you and it never worked. The only reason garyw's VSA works is because he does it all himself!

There's a rule when it comes to design projects, but applies in this case as well:
"Never join a project who's leader isn't good at what the project is trying to achieve."

Ask yourself, why should people follow you, fly missions for you, write reports and spend a bunch of time doing things for you, if you cannot do those things yourself?

In addition, they can help me come up with plans for future missions. If I come up with them on my own, it won't be as fun, interesting, or realistic (working in a team).

It seems to be a lot of fun and realistic for garyw and he has no problems coming up with missions.

You also don't see garyw all up in our face, starting threads about VSA. The last time you started a VSA thread, people placed bets on how long it would last. Judging by that reaction, you should have learned that OF *really* doesn't like VSAs by every random orbinaut.

I would point to other VSAs for inspiration, but there only seems to be one that works.

 

[PeriapsisPrograde]

Maybe take a more kerbal approach. If the rocket doesn't work, add boosters.
[/sarcasm]

 

[RisingFury]

Maybe take a more kerbal approach. If the rocket doesn't work, add boosters.
[/sarcasm]

Hmmm... VSAs seem to follow the "If at first you don't succeed, FAIL, FAIL, FAIL again." model.

 

[PeriapsisPrograde]

Hmmm... VSAs seem to follow the "If at first you don't succeed, FAIL, FAIL, FAIL again." model.

That would be kerbal!

 

[RisingFury]

That would be kerbal!

No, Kerbal rockets have a much higher rate of success than VSAs.

 

[Cras]

The concept of a VSA just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

 

[Scruce]

I would point to other VSAs for inspiration, but there only seems to be one that works.

I would have added High Altitude Space Agency (HASA) by IronRain in there, it ran for a very long time (over a year) and never made any O-F threads saying "This VSA wants YOU!" and the like.

To be honest, mostly closed VSAs (one person, no recruiting) are the ones that run the longest, having one person means no straining requirements such as the 'initial enthusiasm' problem. Also, you can pick it up and post updates whenever you feel like.

 

[garyw]

Thanks for the kind words Risingfury!

I'll step in and answer a few things that have come up about my VSA, it might help explain why I do things how I do them.

It seems to be a lot of fun and realistic for garyw and he has no problems coming up with missions.

A lot of the missions I fly are based in real world or similar. One that isn't based in the real word is my probe to asteroid 1991 VG. This was actually a lot of fun to come up with. I think at the time the Chapman probes had just been released and when I looked at them I thought 'how can I use one of those?'. I looked at possible missions and that one was possible with the rockets I had in my inventory so it got picked. Kinda real world, kinda fun just working out the options.

You also don't see garyw all up in our face, starting threads about VSA. The last time you started a VSA thread, people placed bets on how long it would last. Judging by that reaction, you should have learned that OF *really* doesn't like VSAs by every random orbinaut.

My VSA is not here to tell people how to do things, to invite them along or to brag. Its there for me to have a reason, a purpose in orbiter and to have some fun learing how things work. I make mistakes but I make that part of the VSA. I have one probe that was meant to test sample return and it wasn't on a big enough booster. opps. So it was left in a very ellipitcal earth orbit whilst I worked out what I could do with it, if anything. I have done a few blogs here but have stopped because I've slown down with my VSA a little and thats another reason its closed. I don't always have time for it and I don't always have the interest so its there for when I am.

I would point to other VSAs for inspiration, but there only seems to be one that works.

SimNASA worked but they had missions and content before members. I'm more than happy to make ISA content available if people want to use it.

The concept of a VSA just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

My VSA was set up because I was BAD at Orbiter. It was the best way for me to learn and improve. It was never meant to be anything more than a paper excercise but over time I enjoyed doing some write ups and some enjoyed reading them. you'll notice that there are a lot of gaps on the site thats because its still growing and improving.

---------- Post added at 01:56 ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 ----------

Yes, I do want to build the VSA with others. I'm not exactly the best at Orbiter, so I can't do all of the missions, but others can. In addition, they can help me come up with plans for future missions. If I come up with them on my own, it won't be as fun, interesting, or realistic (working in a team).

Where is the fun if you can't do the missions? How do you know someone has done a mission or just used the scenario editor?

Orbiter is a fantastic educational tool, you have everything right there and there are many more tutorials than I when I started out. I'm still learning as well.

Having a VSA just because you can't do all the missions is a bit like getting someone else to play a racing game for you because you can't drive.

 

[PeriapsisPrograde]

You guys seem to think that this is the problem with VSAs. How do we prevent it?

 

[garyw]

You guys seem to think that this is the problem with VSAs. How do we prevent it?

You don't. Hopefully experience and these threads will help but who knows?

Advice freely given can be just as freely ignored.

The question I would pose to EricEvan and everyone else who had an open VSA that failed is 'Why did it fail?' be honest. I looked at opening up ISA but decided not to because at that point it goes from fun to work and I already have a job.

EricEvans first post here says:

However, this time I want to do it differently. Let's plan it out. Let's try to be more realistic. Let's not rush to start our first mission. Let's design a website that doesn't have flaws.

And that is spot on. Plan it out is the key thing, what do you want to achieve? How will you achieve it? Who do you need to achieve which bits?
However, the bit about 'building a website that doesn't have flaws' is wrong. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the VOSSA website in my opinion - if there was it was simply that it wasn't designed for the missions VOSSA wanted to run but VOSSA didn't know what it was they wanted to do.

 

[RisingFury]

My VSA is not here to tell people how to do things,

I think you're the only one left with an active VSA that has the long term experience on how to run a VSA. I've seen you post about it here and there any time a new VSA thread pops up. It might be useful if you gathered up your experience in a tutorial or guide - if you have the time and interest, of course.

Having a VSA just because you can't do all the missions is a bit like getting someone else to play a racing game for you because you can't drive.

:lol: