Question Ubunutu question(s)

[mojoey]

Hi, long story very short, I downloaded Ubuntu 11.10 and put it onto a flash drive, however, I can't run wubi.exe (another long story) on this machine. The other computer (dead, as in, XP is so ed up, it won't run) is set to check USB drives. Can I just plug the drive into the desktop and run ubuntu from there? Or do I need to run wubi.exe to get everything set up?

 

[PhantomCruiser]

I've done that on my laptop in their previous version. But for my desktop I made a live CD. I don't see why it wouldn't work though, after all it did work on my laptop.

My daughter used wubi, and from what I gather it's just an installer that runs inside Windows.

 

[Linguofreak]

My daughter used wubi, and from what I gather it's just an installer that runs inside Windows.

Well, it's a bit more than that. Instead of creating and installing to a dedicated Linux partition, it creates a filesystem inside of a file on a Windows partition. It's convenient for trying out Ubuntu, but suffers a higher-than normal risk of data loss in the case of a hard shutdown than a dedicated install, and is not recommended for long-term use.

 

[Pablo49]

If you are trying to boot from your flashdrive, which I assume you are after, you won't need wubi. You'll need to make a live usb like a live cd, but you know, a usb. There are a few ways of doing so, one is booting up ubuntu via a live session, and using it's built-in startup disk creator. (Quick google search will explain how to use it.) There are also stand alone programs like Pendrivelinux. I've used both some time ago, and both work just fine.

Same issues Linguofreak listed apply to live usb installs too, for the record.

 

[Tommy]

Wubi is useful for finding out if your hardware will support Linux. It is NOT a long term solution. Most hardware makers don't bother with developing Linux drivers. There are some exceptions - NVidia for example makes a Linux driver that supports Open GL hardware acceleration - and these drivers aren't going to be on your flash drive (you will get basic video from the "default" drivers). Other hardware is "iffy" (especially modems - like anyone uses modems anymore!).

People who are used to Windows often just don't understand that Linux is VERY different from Windows - especially in the way hardware and drivers are concerned.

With Windows, you get the driver from the hardware maker. With Linux, you usually get the driver from some geek who bought the hardware - then wrote a driver to make it work (most often by "reverse engineering").

With Windows, every time you upgrade you need a new driver for the hardware you have - and the makers don't write new drivers for obsolete hardware (assuming the maker still exists). For instance - I have a CR-Rom drive dating back to 1996 - it's a 5 disc "changer" that fits in a standard bay. The maker went out of business - so the drive only works under Win95 - but not under any newer version of Windows. Yet this same drive still works in the latest Linux distro - because the (third party) driver is "built in" to the kernal.

This isn't to say that Linux is always better. Yes, it's easier to update a driver to a new version, you simply rebuild the drive against the new kernal. Once a particular piece of hardware is supported it will almost always be supported in the future. On the other hand, since the makers aren't creating the drivers, there is usually a "lag" between when the hardware is first made until someone volunteers to make a driver for it.

In short, older hardware will run under the latest version of Linux - but the newest hardware usually won't.

You have to understand that Windows and Linux are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Linux is NOT a "better version of Windows". It is something completely different that accomplishes most of the same things. Many people who try Linux are people who are frustrated with Windows and think they can solve their problem by switching to Linux. It just doesn't work that way. They end up frustrated because Linux isn't enough like Windows.

Linux is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT operating system, and is based on a VERY DIFFERENT philosophy. It is NOT a "substitute" or a "replacement" for Windows.

This is further complicated by the fact that a lot of software is "cross platform". Firefox on Linux seems to work the same as Firefox on Windows - the differences are all "under the hood". Also, there are less viruses/malware that targets the Linux platform - because it is less popular. This doesn't mean that Linux isn't vulnerable - it just means that you are less likely to encounter a virus that will affect a Linux box. In the end, you actually need MORE knowledge to secure a Linux box than you do to secure a Windows box - because there are less people making "easy to use" solutions. Just about anyone can download and use ZoneAlarm - but configuring IPTables takes some real skill and knowledge.

I point all this out because I followed the original discussion in the chatbox - and I worry that mojoey is trying Linux for the wrong reasons. If you are having problems with security/malware on Windows, then you should learn more about Windows. Switching to Linux will simply trade the problems you have for a whole new set of problems - and you will have less knowledge of how to solve these new problems.

Don't get me wrong - I prefer Linux. It is the OS I use when I want to do any real work. I consider Windows to be my "toy" OS - I use it to play "games" like Orbiter. When I have real work to do, like using my computer for a Digital Audio Workstation, I use Linux.

To sum things up a bit, you should be able to just plug the flash drive into the other computer and boot into Linux. The "live" Ubuntu on the flash drive will check the hardware and configure itself as best as it can. It will take longer to boot - since it has to check the hardware an configure itself every time it boots.

"Live" distros - those that can be run from a CD or flash drive and boot into a usable desktop - are only really useful for checking hardware compatabilty. They are NOT a long term solution - for that you need to actually install the OS on it's own partition (actually, to properly install Linux you should have at least THREE partitions dedicated to Linux). Keep in mind that the Windows software you have will NOT work under Linux (some can be "tricked" into running by using WINE (but getting that to happen isn't usually easy), but only some, and they will usually work better under Windows).

If you are thinking about using Linux simply because you are pissed off at Windows, then you are wasting your time. You'll just end up back using Windows and thinking that Linux is useless. You will think that you know how to use a computer when you really just know how to use Windows - and Linux won't work as you expect so you will blame Linux rather than your own ignorance of how Linux works.

Each OS has it's strengths and weaknesses - and they are NOT interchangeable. Which one is "best" depends on what you want to do - and which you know best.

So, try booting Ubuntu from the flash to ensure your hardware is supported (don't expect hardware video acceleration from a "generic" flash drive install). But to truly give Linux a real try - you will need to install it to the hard drive and spend some time learning how to optimize it for your system. It took more than a couple days to learn Windows - so don't expect to learn Linux any quicker.

 

[agentgonzo]

Download the .iso file. Right-click and select "Burn Disc Image" (works on 7 and I assume Vista) and burn a CD. Pop CD in target computer and boot from that.

 

[TMac3000]

1) Download your chosen Linux ISO
2) Go here: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
3) Download the program, run it, and follow the directions

The only distro I have seen that does not want to run on a live USB is OpenSUSE.

 

[Ripley]

To install (nearly) any distro on a USB key and make it bootable, you can download LILI - Linux Live USB Creator

http://www.linuxliveusb.com/

 

[Rtyh-12]

Before I begin: I'm still a noob with Linux, I'm just speaking from my own experience. The below worked on my two computers, a five year old desktop and a netbook. They will most likely work on yours, too, but I can't guarantee anything.

Well, if your XP is unbootable anyway, it can't hurt too much, right?

If you want to put Ubuntu on a flash drive, you're going too need a few things. First is (pretty obviously) a flash drive. It needs to be around 1 gigabyte or more in capacity.

If it's large enough, you can also put a persistent file on it. This is basically a file where Ubuntu will save your settings, programs, and files. This is just for the live flash drive, of course - after (if) you install the real thing, they will be saved wherever you want, like in Windows.

Then you'll need the Ubuntu .iso disk image. You can grab that from the Ubuntu official website (ubuntu.com) or use an automatic downloader (more on that in a second).

The final thing you'll need is an app to put it on the drive for you. I recommend UNetbootin. Among other features (which you may or may not find useful) it can automatically download the disk image for you or use one you already have.

Great, you're ready to go! Start UNetbootin and put Ubuntu on the drive - it should be pretty easy to do.

Once UNetbootin finishes, take the drive out and put it in the computer you want to use. If it's on, shut it down and start it again; if it's off, just power it up.

If you're lucky, UNetbootin will show you a menu. Just select the option to start Ubuntu, and it will boot. Go make a sanwich or something, because it's going to take a while.

If you're not, and Windows starts, shut your computer down again. Power it up again. As it starts, look for a key to 'enter setup' or 'BIOS settings', or something similar. Press it, and look for 'boot order'. Make sure the flash drive is first, and restart your computer

After Ubuntu starts, you'll get its desktop, with an 'Install Ubuntu' icon on it. Ignore it, just play around. If you feel ready, use it to install the thing.

 

[mojoey]

Alright, it seems that all of you are in favor of using an external program to put files on the drive, however, I can't run those (restrictions on this account).

Last night, I opened the .iso with 7Zip. Then I wiped the flash drive, using the format option. After that finished, I used 7Zip to move the files to the drive (drive F:\) as of right now, here are the files that are on the drive (excluding subfolders and files within, because, I don't have all year )
.disk
boot
casper
dists
install
isolinux
pics
pool
preseed
[BOOT]
README.diskdefines
autorun.inf
md5sum.txt
wubi.exe
**************************************
now, no other program aside from Utorrent, and 7Zip were used, (Utorrent to download it, 7Zip to unpack it) the BIOS on the desktop is configured for USB use, so am I good to go?

 

[jangofett287]

I once tried to install Dos like that. It didn't work, and there's a very good reason why. There are several files, along with the boot record, that a hidden and will not have been copied.

 

[Spacethingy]

Uhhhh... "opened the .iso" doesn't sound good! .iso's are supposed to go straight to a disk I think, which is why you have to use some sort of program like LILO to get it on your stick.

EDIT: :ninja: by JangoF!

Unrelated :2cents:, Ubuntu is an incredibly heavy OS for a USB - why not try something smaller like Puppy? I love my Puppy Linux stick, it boots and has Firefox ready within 2 minutes.

 

[Rtyh-12]

Remember, there is a reason why all these programs were made in the first place You could try, since your PC is bricked anyway... it can't exactly hurt, right?

But what account restrictions are you talking about, exactly? What operating system are you on?

 

[mojoey]

Remember, there is a reason why all these programs were made in the first place You could try, since your PC is bricked anyway... it can't exactly hurt, right?

But what account restrictions are you talking about, exactly? What operating system are you on?

Win7 Home Premium, its restricted my usage of programs, time I can be on, :blahblah:

The purpose of this drive is to get the computer running long enough to get an install of Ubuntu on the HDD, then I could care less about the flash drive

 

[Linguofreak]

Alright, it seems that all of you are in favor of using an external program to put files on the drive, however, I can't run those (restrictions on this account).

Last night, I opened the .iso with 7Zip. Then I wiped the flash drive, using the format option. After that finished, I used 7Zip to move the files to the drive (drive F:\) as of right now, here are the files that are on the drive (excluding subfolders and files within, because, I don't have all year )
.disk
boot
casper
dists
install
isolinux
pics
pool
preseed
[BOOT]
README.diskdefines
autorun.inf
md5sum.txt
wubi.exe
**************************************
now, no other program aside from Utorrent, and 7Zip were used, (Utorrent to download it, 7Zip to unpack it) the BIOS on the desktop is configured for USB use, so am I good to go?

No. Your best option, if there's a CD burner on your machine and your account has permission to use it, would be to use that program to burn the ISO to a CD (the option to do it should be labeled "Burn image" or something like that. Be sure you don't just create a data disk and put the ISO file on it).

Once you've done that, set the BIOS on the XP machine to boot from CD and use the CD to install Ubuntu (back up any important data first, if there's any left on that machine).

 

[mojoey]

No. Your best option, if there's a CD burner on your machine and your account has permission to use it, would be to use that program to burn the ISO to a CD (the option to do it should be labeled "Burn image" or something like that. Be sure you don't just create a data disk and put the ISO file on it).

Once you've done that, set the BIOS on the XP machine to boot from CD and use the CD to install Ubuntu (back up any important data first, if there's any left on that machine).

ahh, so, USB no-no, CD go-go... got it! next, track down a duster and flame retardant gear!

 

[Ripley]

Uhhhh... "opened the .iso" doesn't sound good! .iso's are supposed to go straight to a disk I think, which is why you have to use some sort of program like LILO to get it on your stick....

Not quite right.

ISO files are sort of "images" that must be burnt to CDs or DVDs.
You can try the free CDRTFE (CDRTools Front End) CD/DVD burning software, and use its "Disc Image" tab.

Once you have correctly burnt the ISO to your CD/DVD, you can use it to boot from there.

 

[Linguofreak]

Win7 Home Premium, its restricted my usage of programs, time I can be on, :blahblah:

Who's the administrator of the machine? Do they own the XP machine too? Would they be unhappy with you installing a new OS on the XP machine? Would they be unhappy with you using another OS to get around their time restrictions?

 

[mojoey]

Who's the administrator of the machine? Do they own the XP machine too? Would they be unhappy with you installing a new OS on the XP machine? Would they be unhappy with you using another OS to get around their time restrictions?

Admin is the parents, and they ok'd the XP tinkering, since they think its beyond repair. The agreement was, if I get it working, the computer would once again be mine, since it was a present way long ago for my birthday.

 

[Linguofreak]

ahh, so, USB no-no, CD go-go... got it!

You could use a USB if you didn't have the administrative restrictions preventing you from using programs that can produce a bootable USB from an iso image.

next, track down a duster and flame retardant gear!

Huh? :blink:

Not quite right.

ISO files are sort of "images" that must be burnt to CDs or DVDs.

They don't *have* to be. They can be read from a loopback device on Linux, and LiveUSB creator programs like UNetbootin use them to create bootable USB sticks. But you are correct in that you can't simply image them to a non-CD drive, or copy their contents to a USB stick, and expect to have a bootable medium.

You can try the free CDRTFE (CDRTools Front End) CD/DVD burning software, and use its "Disc Image" tab.

Mojoey has said that he doesn't have administrative access to his computer. Either there's an existing CD burning program already installed or he's out of luck.