TransX is overly complicated...

[nygiantsrob]

Is it just me or does anyone find TransX overly complicated...the lack of feedback from this MFD is unreal...Flying from the Moon to Mars involves creating a pseudo-DG in Earth orbit in order to calculate a proper trajectory to Mars...Dosesn't feel in anyway realistic when you have to go down these winding roads to compute a trajectory & the video tutorials are a joke...The Author of those just tells you "...Let me tweak a little bit of this & a little bit of that..." with absolutely no explanation as to why we need to tweak particular variables...Again, Is it just me ???

 

[Izack]

I would argue that it isn't overly complicated, but rather the purpose of the MFD requires it to be so complicated.
But then again, I've never used it.

 

[insanity]

Izack is right. TransX is attempting to do something quite complicated in the most user friendly way possible. It has its limitations (just like IMFD), but it is actually quite a useful tool for exploring if you know what you're doing.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Once you realize what TransX is doing, it should dawn on you why it's so dang hard to grasp (myself included). It really could benifit from a manual along the lines of the "IMFD Full Manual", I myself can use TransX, but not well enough to explain it (if that makes any sense...).

 

[KosmoKen]

If its too much for you to handle, don't use it. Everything has limitations, but if you think you can do better, do it.

 

[ex-orbinaut]

Have you seen, read and tried the instructions, advice, information and exercises of this page and its associated links yet?

http://orbiter.quorg.org/

 

[Enjo]

(...) Dosesn't feel in anyway realistic when you have to go down these winding roads to compute a trajectory & the video tutorials are a joke...The Author of those just tells you "...Let me tweak a little bit of this & a little bit of that..." with absolutely no explanation as to why we need to tweak particular variables...Again, Is it just me ???

I can't tell for the TransX's maintainer, Agentgonzo now because he's busy with his life currently and I agree with Izaak's opinion, but if it's about the tutorials... instead of calling those very valuable tutorials a joke (Flytandem's tutorials, right?), consider the possibility that you don't know enough about TransX yet to understand the videos and maybe you need to read the text tutorials first, because:

1) You won't find anything better than those rare and comprehensive (I mean it) tutorials
2) It's much easier and more practical to place a larger amount of material in text form than in video, because the more you put in vid, the more potential mistakes you can record, so you have to start the recording again and you will bore the watchers who already know what you are repeating

Also, instead of general complaints, try working with the author and explain to him why you don't understand a particular paragraph, how you understand it currently (helping the author catching mistakes in your / his logic, so he can clarify his text), and ideally, tell the author how you would change it.

To sum up - try to make some effort or tell them to get your money back.

 

[nygiantsrob]

Once you realize what TransX is doing, it should dawn on you why it's so dang hard to grasp (myself included). It really could benifit from a manual along the lines of the "IMFD Full Manual", I myself can use TransX, but not well enough to explain it (if that makes any sense...).

I realize what TransX is trying to achieve...In fact I've used it to navigate to Mars, Jupiter & Saturn so far...I'm just saying that the inabilitie to just specifiy a Target Planet from the get-go & then worry about tweaking variables is highly confusing...For example...I'm currently trying to get from the Moon (not Earth !!!) to Mars & no matter how I try cannot establish a stage that allows me to set up a trajectory in an easy way...

---------- Post added at 12:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------

I can't tell for the TransX's maintainer, Agentgonzo now because he's busy with his life currently and I agree with Izaak's opinion, but if it's about the tutorials... instead of calling those very valuable tutorials a joke (Flytandem's tutorials, right?), consider the possibility that you don't know enough about TransX yet to understand the videos and maybe you need to read the text tutorials first, because:

1) You won't find anything better than those rare and comprehensive (I mean it) tutorials
2) It's much easier and more practical to place a larger amount of material in text form than in video, because the more you put in vid, the more potential mistakes you can record, so you have to start the recording again and you will bore the watchers who already know what you are repeating

Also, instead of general complaints, try working with the author and explain to him why you don't understand a particular paragraph, how you understand it currently (helping the author catching mistakes in your / his logic, so he can clarify his text), and ideally, tell the author how you would change it.

To sum up - try to make some effort or tell them to get your money back.

No disrespect was intended towards the author of the video tutorials, but they were obviously made by someone who is extremely familiar with the workings of TransX...I guess I gotta' apologize for my ignorance, but my frustration with TransX is pretty high right now...

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Actually I think there is a tutorial for that somewhere...
It involves using a dummy target in LEO to project a sling around Earth. I never tried it myself, but I know it's out there.
http://www.flytandem.com/orbiter/tutorials/index.htm
I don't think it's one of these, I might have seen it on the 'Hanger somewhere.

edit-
http://www.flytandem.com/orbiter/tutorials/video/index.htm
Moon2Mars, second from the bottom.

 

[nygiantsrob]

Actually I think there is a tutorial for that somewhere...
It involves using a dummy target in LEO to project a sling around Earth. I never tried it myself, but I know it's out there.
http://www.flytandem.com/orbiter/tutorials/index.htm
I don't think it's one of these, I might have seen it on the 'Hanger somewhere.

edit-
http://www.flytandem.com/orbiter/tutorials/video/index.htm
Moon2Mars, second from the bottom.

Your right PhantomCruiser...That's included in 'FlyTandem's' video tutorials...but I think it detracts from the REALISM factor when you have to bring a 'Ghost' craft into the scenario just to calculate a trajectory...

 

[Enjo]

I guess I gotta' apologize for my ignorance, but my frustration with TransX is pretty high right now...

OK, first step done. Now you have to let the frustration go away and read those text tutorials.

I'm currently trying to get from the Moon (not Earth !!!) to Mars & no matter how I try cannot establish a stage that allows me to set up a trajectory in an easy way...

Well actually I know what you mean. There's no easy way for doing this, and while reading Flytandem's tutorials, you will notice him [Edit] having to do [/Edit] evil TransX hacks to achieve some trajectories, but on the other hand, 8 years ago there were three interplanetary MFDs: NAV MFD, early TransX and early IMFD. NAV was orphaned, tho are left - TransX and IMFD. Authors won't always have time to develop them, in fact if I were hiring so good programmers, I'd not leave them without any activities...
So ... Since 8 years, no new revolutionary tools appeared. TransX got open sourced and except two persons, one of which is Martins himself, AKA apogee nobody took the challenge of maintaining the code, not to mention doing a revolutionary tool. I wonder why...

 

[Tommy]

TransX is designed for flexibility. For instance, if I start from Earth going to Saturn, how is TransX supposed to know if I want to go directly to Saturn, or want to get a gravity assist from Jupiter, or even use an EVVEJS sling? That is why you can't simply name a target "from the get-go".

IMFD functions the way you seem to wish TransX does, it may be a better option for you. However, IMFD isn't very suitable for sling (especially multi-stage sling) trajectories (no capability for pre-planning the flight). While IMFD can be simpler to use, it doesn't allow the depth of control that TransX does - and that ability to tweak each and every aspect of the flight means TransX CANNOT be made simple to use. TransX is simply to comprehensive to be simple.

One of the reasons IMFD is considered easier to use is because it isn't a complex "multitool", rather it is a set of several separate complex tools. By having a specific tool for each different purpose, IMFD can be made much simpler (less options available at any given time).

In general, neither TransX or IMFD is superior. Which one will be best depends entirely on what you are doing. For a Voyager type "Grand Tour" TransX is the obvious choice. For a simple planetary transfer (or even a Moon - Mars trip) IMFD will be easier to set up and use.

I'm fairly competent with IMFD, more than most. However, I will never consider myself an "expert" orbiteer until I can use BOTH TransX and IMFD fluently.

 

[eyu100]

Would it help to use TransX and IMFD together? You would use TransX to plan, and IMFD to execute burns and get around TransX's limitations, such as not being able to get from the Moon to Mars easily and needing "ghost" ships.

 

[Enjo]

That's what I do.

 

[Izack]

Hey, I'm fine just using the vanilla MFDs (Transfer, Align Plane, Orbit and Map specifically), some paper and a calculator. You don't get the depth of complexity, and it's only as effective as you are, but you don't have to model yourself to the tool, because the tool is your brain directly if that makes any sense.

 

[nygiantsrob]

Have you seen, read and tried the instructions, advice, information and exercises of this page and its associated links yet?

http://orbiter.quorg.org/

Thanks Keith...I checked out the link & found the info. very useful...

 

[Gumdrop]

TransX has a steep learning curve, no doubt. For a clear picture, I recommend FlyTandem's tutorials. They are a gem.

 

[n122vu]

My advice is, keep reading and watching the tutorials by all the different authors. If you have to watch it 15 times to get it, or follow a written tutorial 20 times, do it. Once the basics of TransX click, you will get it. Trust me, I've been trying for (literally) years to make it to Mars on my own without using a tutorial or a tutorial-based scenario. I finally did it last night. Yes, it was a pain to learn, but now I feel like I can plan any trip and don't need a tutorial to hold my hand while I do so.

 

[nygiantsrob]

My advice is, keep reading and watching the tutorials by all the different authors. If you have to watch it 15 times to get it, or follow a written tutorial 20 times, do it. Once the basics of TransX click, you will get it. Trust me, I've been trying for (literally) years to make it to Mars on my own without using a tutorial or a tutorial-based scenario. I finally did it last night. Yes, it was a pain to learn, but now I feel like I can plan any trip and don't need a tutorial to hold my hand while I do so.

I understand exactly what your saying, but my gripe is not with navigation...I've already used TransX to reach Mars, Jupiter & Saturn orbits...However, right now I'm trying to navigate directly from the Moon (NOT Earth !!!) to Mars & it seems that the only way to compute a trajectory is to bring a 'Ghost craft' into the scenario...Maybe it's just me, but that seriously detracts from the 'Realism' factor...

 

[b_griffin]

I have been exited about this post from Martin:

http://www.orbitersim.com/Forum/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=14476

Here he stated that """One project I was thinking about is to put the new "no-graphics" orbiter core to good use by running it ... inside orbiter. The idea is to write an MFD which runs an orbiter_ng process for numerical trajectory forward modelling. A sort of "super-transfer MFD". Having an accurate forward model would allow to attack interesting inverse problems like burn optimisation/continuous thrust calculation/slingshot optimisation etc."""

Anybody knows what happened to that? I was really interested in getting orbiter_ng to act as a numerical simulator with no graphics front end and this could be an application for it; but so far, the answers that i am getting are that the only way to interact with orbiter_ng is through a graphic client...