the iss

[startrekmaniac]

Dumb question but the primary mission of the iss is to study the earth? As well as parts of the solar system?

 

[DaveS]

Dumb question but the primary mission of the iss is to study the earth? As well as parts of the solar system?

No and no. The ISS is not an environmental satellite and it lacks any deep space study equipment. It's primary focus is on microgravity experiments.


-----Posted Added-----


Where did you get that information from by the way? In any case, it's 100% wrong.

 

[ryan]

It does acconsinally studys Solar Wind stuff and observes the earth in HD.

 

[startrekmaniac]

Why would we spend all that money to study the environment? They have to do more than that.

 

[DaveS]

Why would we spend all that money to study the environment? They have to do more than that.

Read my reply again. They don't study the environment!

They take the occasional photo evey now and then but that's about it for Earth observations.

ISS is for microgravity science research, like how fluids and gasses behave in an microgravity environment.

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

With a Science module that has only just been installed.

With long term astronaut stays that investigate changes in the human body in space.

With years of experience of orbital engineering problems.

Experience of multiple "construction workers in space" EVA's.

Years of cultural and social events (is this not just as valuable?), Radio conversations with schools. Live NASA TV broadcasts followed by millions.

Inspiration of the spirit.

It's much more than "just" a space station.

 

[simonpro]

The ISS does science?

 

[Moonwalker]

The ISS is more an international prestige project rather than a real "big" science laboratory in space. The ISS is amazing of course. But the little science which is done onboard basically is earth bounded and hasn't really a lot to do with living in space and journeys beyond low earth orbit. Most research is done for the pharmaceutical industry and such industries which depend on materials science. On Earth we can do a lot more science for less money and less expenditure.

The most time spend onboard the ISS is to keep it well functioning anyway as far as I know. An ISS astronaut is just a kind of professional "facility manager".

I personally think that the science in low earth orbit is not worth the money required to build and operate something like the ISS although it is a great achievement of space flight, technically. But we already know our capabilities (Apollo - Skylab - Mir & Soyuz - STS). We don't need expensive earth orbital toys for that anymore in my point of view.


"We have learned so much about our space environment by flying the Shuttle. And no it's time to go farther"

Eileen Collins

...and I hope we'll really do so and stop wasting money in LEO and call it "science" for another decades...

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

With a Science module that has only just been installed.

It's only just starting to do research science using experiments. However the whole station is an exercise in the Science of engineering. The tolerances and performance of materials, and much more.

"We have learned so much about our space environment by flying the Shuttle. And no it's time to go farther"

Eileen Collins

...and I hope we'll really do so and stop wasting money in LEO and call it "science" for another decades...

The ISS is part of going farther. Dig up Griffin's recent speech and statements by the Planetary Society and Mars Society. They all agree that the ISS will be a staging platform for flights to and from the Moon with an additional extended stay on the ISS to simulate a trip to Mars. Don't kill off the very thing that will give you exactly what your're hoping for.

EDIT: NASA Chief: Moon Base Must Precede Mars Mission (includes role of ISS).

 

[Moonwalker]

The ISS is part of going farther. Dig up Griffin's recent speech and statements by the Planetary Society and Mars Society. They all agree that the ISS will be a staging platform for flights to and from the Moon with an additional extended stay on the ISS to simulate a trip to Mars. Don't kill off the very thing that will give you exactly what your're hoping for.

Well, Griffin has to propagandize the ISS to exculpate its expensive funding. It sounds great that the ISS will be a platform. But it has to sound great although it won't be a platfrom really.

At the time when we return to the Moon, the ISS won't exist anymore I think (past 2020). Constellation does not really include the ISS or another earth orbital space station. Of course Ares/Orion can be used to dock with the ISS (here we go for funds again). But this will be final flights to the ISS before it ends up in the deep and cold ocean like Mir once did.

And not to mention manned Mars missions in the 2040's/2050's. At that time the ISS will be something like Skylab is today. All you might find are rather old mockups of Columbus and co somewhere in a museum.

 

[simonpro]

The ISS is part of going farther. Dig up Griffin's recent speech and statements by the Planetary Society and Mars Society. They all agree that the ISS will be a staging platform for flights to and from the Moon with an additional extended stay on the ISS to simulate a trip to Mars. Don't kill off the very thing that will give you exactly what your're hoping for.

I don't think any of them would agree that the ISS is a staging post for lunar missions. That concept was abandoned over a decade ago.

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

Well, Griffin has to propagandize the ISS to exculpate its expensive funding. It sounds great that the ISS will be a platform. But it has to sound great although it won't be a platfrom really.

At the time when we return to the Moon, the ISS won't exist anymore I think (past 2020). Constellation does not really include the ISS or another earth orbital space station. Of course Ares can be used to dock with the ISS (here we go for funds again). But this will be final flights to the ISS before it ends up in the deep and cold ocean like Mir once did.

And not to mention manned Mars missions in the 2040's/2050's. At that time the ISS will be something like Skylab is today. All you'll find might be rather old mockups of Columbus und Co. somewhere in a museum.

I don't think any of them would agree that the ISS is a staging post for lunar missions. That concept was abandoned over a decade ago.

I would like to submit to you both that this entire issue is mired in politics and ...

"many strata of prejudice and arrogance"

... as Friedman and Jacques Blamont put it in a recent document ... A New Paradigm for a New Vision of Space, A paper by Louis Friedman and Jacques Blamont.

The ISS is becoming a political football in an ideological game that started at the end of the Cold War. If it weren't bogged down in America's reluctance to form full international relationships then it's lifetime would not be dependent only on the next budget decision. As Friedman and Blamont point out, this part of the space arena has become tied to America's desire to become a "leader" in world affairs. Yet this leadership is reluctant to really give up much to international partnerships (ITAR and so on). If that was done then America would lose something but it would gain much as well ... well, read the document.

This is why I balk a little when I hear people talking about "concepts that have been abandoned", and that the "station will end in 2015" without figuring in the political environment.

 

[simonpro]

I don't follow. What is there to balk about? I said the concept was abandoned, which was entirely true. There's no politics about it: The concept was scrapped and is no longer planned. End of story.

 

[GregBurch]

To me, the main benefit that COULD be gained from the ISS is the experience in systems development and implementation for on-orbit construction and long-term space operations.

Of course, NASA, seems hell-bent on not harvesting any of that wonderful experience.

Now, if the station were to be moved to a less-inclined orbit, it COULD serve as a construction base for other projects, i.e. an element of a real space infrastructure. But that's just one of my own private pipe-dreams that seems very unlikely now ...

 

[Moonwalker]

DJ Barney, the political environment (whichever) and some speculations don't really change the fact that the ISS won't be used for manned Moon and Mars missions. Constellation totally ignores the ISS (related to Moon and Mars missions). The concept is about a lunar lander which has to be picked up in low earth orbit before the trans lunar injection of Orion. When this happens, the ISS already will be history.

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

Did you read the article by Friedman ?

The "it's history" argument sounds too much like Fait Accompli to me. You don't address the political environment and that Orion is dependent on funding.

Griffin's speech means nothing ? Friedman has no bearing on the argument ? It's all been decided and I should pack up my bags and go home ?

You did _read_ the Friedman article, right ?

 

[Moonwalker]

Friedman's paper and the Planetary Society won't change the fact that the ISS will not be used for flights beyond low earth orbit. This is not the goal of NASA, Roscosmos or anybody else. Even if they would intend to do so, it is already too late anyway. No matter what Friedman's paper is talking about.

Griffin's speech means nothing?

His speeches mean a lot. For example, he already said that the Shuttle and the ISS "was not the right path" and that NASA lost its way in the 1970's. With Griffin and NASA you won't see ISS-bounded flights to anywhere, which again is non-controversial, not planned and won't happen. Orion meanwhile is going to get a 1 billion dollar budget increase while Griffin intends to buy seats on Soyuz for the time between STS and Ares. When Ares lifts off, the ISS will have only a very few years left before it is over. You can't prevent its aging.

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

Interesting. But where is the evidence for all this ? I can't decide if I'm reading your own opinion on this, or something that happened in a meeting I missed.

So Griffin has contradicted himself ?

What about the ageing ? Where is the evidence for material ageing, of say, the super structure, that will become unmanageable by 2015, because I have not seen it.

 

[dougkeenan]

When Ares lifts off, the ISS will have only a very few years left before it is over. You can't prevent its aging.

"When Ares lifts off..." We might as well be wishing for flying unicorns.

 

[Moonwalker]

Interesting. But where is the evidence for all this ? I can't decide if I'm reading your own opinion on this, or something that happened in a meeting I missed.

The NASA funding for the ISS will end after 2016 which also is the defined end of the program:

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/54873main_budget_chart_14jan04.pdf

Also, Constellation is about exploring the Moon and Mars. There is no ISS or another earth orbital space station involved in such mission profiles.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/main/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Constellationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Constellation#Low-Earth_Orbit


-----Posted Added-----

"When Ares lifts off..." We might as well be wishing for flying unicorns.

You might. NASA not