Project project sorpendarin- redesigned

[Jarvitä]

i dont understand why this project is so unexiting. if i had written this about a new spaceplane (XR like) how exited would people be?

The idea sounds great. It's the prospect for it being achieved that causes the lack of excitement, as several people have already pointed out why it couldn't possibly be done in Orbiter as it exists today. Also, you haven't shown any actual work, you've just presented an idea. It's hard to get excited about an idea that's vague and overly ambitious and most likely impossible.

 

[Sorpenderin]

The idea sounds great. It's the prospect for it being achieved that causes the lack of excitement, as several people have already pointed out why it couldn't possibly be done in Orbiter as it exists today. Also, you haven't shown any actual work, you've just presented an idea. It's hard to get excited about an idea that's vague and overly ambitious and most likely impossible.

well i am going to start the ship soon, and put that on my orbiter. then make some systems wich should be done in the next 6 months.it is not going to be as exiting as i make it sound in this post. then i will add the advanced part



i actuly think this is possible with orbiter(am i the only one that cares)all you have to do is shrink sol down so you can fit 100 other systems in orbiter and set it up so when you reach a certan point the scenario it swiches to a new won and so on,each section being turned into a shell before being recycled( if this isent possible i wont do it)

 

[garyw]

i actuly think this is possible with orbiter(am i the only one that cares)all you have to do is shrink sol down so you can fit 100 other systems in orbiter

It's been done. It's not that exciting. I'd rather have one solar system - to scale than a hundred piles of rock squeezed into a small space.

and set it up so when you reach a certan point the scenario it swiches to a new won and so on,each section being turned into a shell before being recycled( if this isent possible i wont do it)

a new one? Switching scenarios requires an orbiter restart. Are you going to program a DLL to do this?

I really think you need to think about what you want to do with this add on. Right now I think you should just concentrate on adding the ship - Designing a mesh is not the easiest thing to do so do that first then start to add on the more complicated parts.

 

[Columbia42]

i actuly think this is possible with orbiter(am i the only one that cares)all you have to do is shrink sol down so you can fit 100 other systems in orbiter and set it up so when you reach a certan point the scenario it swiches to a new won and so on,each section being turned into a shell before being recycled( if this isent possible i wont do it)

You've been talking about scaling all of the stars down to fit inside Sol that way no new star systems would have to be added but I don't think this is really necessary to accomplish the project. Orbiter Galaxy has definitely proved that it is possible to do this in Orbiter without scaling anything down. In Orbiter Galaxy as you leave Sol the scenario reloads in much the same way you described for your project. Having each galaxy be a single model that turns into individual stars as you get closer is a great idea, one that has been implemented to some extent in Spaceway and could possibly be integrated into Orbiter Galaxy which only supports one galaxy right now but It is probably possible to add more. To start off with I suggest you take a look at Orbiter Galaxy ([ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5530"]Orbiter Galaxy 0.6.3 PATCH[/ame]) if you haven't already.

 

[TMac3000]

Wait a second, Celestia simulates a whole galaxy (though not quite the whole universe), and is open source. Perhaps someone could take a look at the code?

I think modelling every star in the universe is an interesting idea, and certainly ambitious to say the least, but I don't think your computer is powerful enough. My computer is not powerful enough. The computers of every Orbinaut on this forum put together are not powerful enough. If God has a computer, it might be powerful enough, but it would be laggy as all hell (pun intended )

Just try modeling a few star systems first. In any project, a foundation is critical. If you want to do anything big, you have to start with something small first.

I wish you luck on this project, although I will probably never use it. The 30-year voyage to Neptune is too much for me to take in, even with a scenario editor:lol:

 

[Columbia42]

The computer won't have to simulate all of the stars at once, just a few of them. That's how Orbiter Galaxy does it, that's how Spaceway does it, that's how Space Engine does it. They all seem to work pretty well and it's not too laggy.

 

[Sorpenderin]

It's been done. It's not that exciting. I'd rather have one solar system - to scale than a hundred piles of rock squeezed into a small space.

they wont be squeezed into a small space they will just be smaller and the stars will still be spred out its just the planets are smaller so they dont have to be as far

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------

You've been talking about scaling all of the stars down to fit inside Sol that way no new star systems would have to be added but I don't think this is really necessary to accomplish the project. Orbiter Galaxy has definitely proved that it is possible to do this in Orbiter without scaling anything down. In Orbiter Galaxy as you leave Sol the scenario reloads in much the same way you described for your project. Having each galaxy be a single model that turns into individual stars as you get closer is a great idea, one that has been implemented to some extent in Spaceway and could possibly be integrated into Orbiter Galaxy which only supports one galaxy right now but It is probably possible to add more. To start off with I suggest you take a look at Orbiter Galaxy (Orbiter Galaxy 0.6.3 PATCH) if you haven't already.

i have looked at orbiter galaxy and it is great but it is not as good because you have to reload evry time you want to travel to another star. in my sorpendarin project you have to reload to get another 100 stars so intersteller travel is a bit more realistic. also orbiter galaxy only simulates 1 galaxy

 

[Columbia42]

i have looked at orbiter galaxy and it is great but it is not as good because you have to reload evry time you want to travel to another star. in my sorpendarin project you have to reload to get another 100 stars so intersteller travel is a bit more realistic. also orbiter galaxy only simulates 1 galaxy

The problem is that Orbiter can't show more than one star system at once. It might be possible to get around this problem by showing 100 stars at once but none of their planets. Once you get close to a star, the simulation reloads to show the entire system with planets. This could be possible but I encourage you to abandon the idea of scaling everything down as it is not going to work for the project and there are other ways of getting around these problems.

 

[RisingFury]

Sorpenderin, I suggest you start work on your interstellar ship first. That way you'll learn how Orbiter works, how to make models and make them work. It's also a part of your project and can be used as an interplanetary ship as well.

Part of your project will be done and you'll learn a lot.

Just focus on that first

 

[jedidia]

in my sorpendarin project you have to reload to get another 100 stars so intersteller travel is a bit more realistic.

Trouble is, it won't get more realistic if you have to shoehorn the distances (and they will stay shoehorned even if you scale your ship down. The visual representation of distances is the least of your worries, it's the physics involved).

Believe me, I thought about the possibilities quite a bit. I chose to reload every time you enter a new system because it is the most realistic option. Not the most convenient, that would be shoehorning. But it was the only way to at least have some accuracy in there, even if it meant some loading time and not having secondary gravitational influences. At least the source and the target would be accurate, as well as their distance, and that's all that is currently possible with the orbiter architecture (well, to be honest, with some hacking I could get secondary gravitational influences in there, but it's not exactly on the priority list).

 

[Sorpenderin]

Sorpenderin, I suggest you start work on your interstellar ship first. That way you'll learn how Orbiter works, how to make models and make them work. It's also a part of your project and can be used as an interplanetary ship as well.

Part of your project will be done and you'll learn a lot.

Just focus on that first

ok,i will do that first

 

[Columbia42]

Well I think secondary gravitational sources would be cool so that you could slingshot around stars to increase your velocity. But back on topic, Jedidia's right that Orbiter Galaxy's method of reloading for every system is the most realistic option. I do think simulating other galaxies would be cool, though, and using an enormous mesh to represent a galaxy (like Celestia does) is probably the way to do it.

 

[Sorpenderin]

Trouble is, it won't get more realistic if you have to shoehorn the distances (and they will stay shoehorned even if you scale your ship down. The visual representation of distances is the least of your worries, it's the physics involved).

Believe me, I thought about the possibilities quite a bit. I chose to reload every time you enter a new system because it is the most realistic option. Not the most convenient, that would be shoehorning. But it was the only way to at least have some accuracy in there, even if it meant some loading time and not having secondary gravitational influences. At least the source and the target would be accurate, as well as their distance, and that's all that is currently possible with the orbiter architecture (well, to be honest, with some hacking I could get secondary gravitational influences in there, but it's not exactly on the priority list).

i will try to think up some other way to do this. its just the scalling down option is the only way i can fit 100 stars in

 

[N_Molson]

The idea to start with the vessel seems great to me. You're very young, and can spend 10 years on that project if you want I wish I could. You'll be learning Orbiter developpement over the years, and you'll probably become very proficient at it if you go "slow but steady". I'm saying that as an elementary school teacher.

Even better, Orbiter has a great future and who knows, maybe Martins will one day (one year) implement multiple star systems.

So, spend time on smaller projects at first, while keeping in mind your idea, that you will improve and update as you get more and more proficient as Orbiter gets even better than today. :2cents:

 

[jedidia]

Well I think secondary gravitational sources would be cool so that you could slingshot around stars to increase your velocity.

Well, that is quite impossible with the current architecture, I'm afraid (OrbiterGalaxy-wise as well as Orbiter-wise). The most I could do would be to simulate the gravity of nearby stars virtually, so they throw you of course (but with the currently available nav-tools, that would probably be more of a nuisance than adding to the expierience. It's difficult enough as it is...).

For slingshooting around a star, the star would have to be moving in relation to the target, as the real velocity gain in a slingshot comes not from just being accelerated towards a body. You lose that again as you are moving away from it, although on interstellar scales the higher average velocity resulting from such a maneuver might cut a small bit of your journey.

But the real gain from a slingshot is that the central body passes a bit of its momentum to you, so if the body is fixed (as Stars currently are both in OrbiterGalaxy as well as in Orbiter itself) there's no momentum to pass...

Anyways, I don't want to jack Sorpenderins thread, so it's best we leave it at that.

 

[Sorpenderin]

i have rethout this idea. now it works like this: as you leave the orbiter universe the scienerio reloads (like orbiter galaxy) but this time when it reloads you are surrounded by 100 scaled down stars but without planets. once you get close to a system the scnerio will reload with you in the new system. besides that its the same. unfortionetly this needs alot of DLLing. does anyone have any toutorials?

 

[Hielor]

i have rethout this idea. now it works like this: as you leave the orbiter universe the scienerio reloads (like orbiter galaxy) but this time when it reloads you are surrounded by 100 scaled down stars but without planets. once you get close to a system the scnerio will reload with you in the new system. besides that its the same. unfortionetly this needs alot of DLLing. does anyone have any toutorials?

I think you've missed the part where everyone has been telling you "scaling down won't work."

 

[jedidia]

I think you've missed the part where everyone has been telling you "scaling down won't work."

Actually, in this context, it would work. It might feel pretty unrealistic, but it's not a problem to have a "metaverse" where you can fly around in a compressed universe (let's call it hyperspace) to get to other systems instead of selecting them on a starmap a la Orbiter Galaxy. It was even an early design consideration for the Orbiter Galaxy ftl model (although that would have been more of a Babylon fiveian hyperspace, but the concept remains the same: Select the destination by physically flying to it in a compressed space).

@Sorpenderin: There's a lot of tutorials, and the sample code that comes with Orbiter is a good starting point, but what you have to learn first is elementary C++ programing (I.E. Orbiter unrelated. Best in visual studio express, since this is what you'll use to work with Orbiter later on).

The good thing is, of course, there are gazillions of elementary C++ tutorials out there. Just use google!

 

[Sorpenderin]

I think you've missed the part where everyone has been telling you "scaling down won't work."

i understand it wont work. but i ment the stars would be small and the ship at normal size. but before the ship got close enough to the target star to notice how small it was the scnerio will reload with the system at regular size





---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------

im thinking about starting the ship soon

 

[RisingFury]

Sorpenderin, I suggest you first draw your ship on paper, so you know how it looks while you're modelling it.

It'll take a bit of practice for you to learn the 3D modelling program and it will take you weeks or even months of work just to finish the ship. And I don't mean any disrespect here, but your first attempt at making the ship probably won't look good either - don't worry, I haven't see any good first attempts yet

I know you're 9 years old, but I won't shield you from the challenges of making addons. It takes a lot of practice, patience, talent, skill and knowledge. I know from experience. I'm currently involved in a project and when I started, I knew nothing about it - when I look back now, my early attempts at it were silly and stupid.

Also, be prepared that some people won't react well to your addons. I'm generally among the people who react very harshly. Don't let such criticism put you off. Learn from it and from your mistakes, become stronger and better and you'll succeed.

Good luck