OFMM V3 Mission Statement

[Athena]

Either that or you'll have to UCD/Glue/attach/velcro some sort of 'soft' landing thruster like used on Soyuz.

You *could* use the Antares LR instead...it has brake engines and landing gear...:hmm:

 

[IronRain]

I was wondering would the Antares LR make it to the surface? it has brake engines and landing gear...:hmm:

I think you still have the chute problem. You won't slow down enough before you reach the surface.

 

[Athena]

Hmmm, your right about the chute...deployed it around 1.3km, slowed down but not really much, used the brake engines and maintained a vertical velocity of around 18-26 meters per second....hit the surface with the capsule going at around 22 m/s...rough landing...

 

[dgatsoulis]

Were you using the 'in-orbit' engines, or the LES motors? The LES motors (as shown in the CG video above) are way more powerful.

I did use the LES engines in the manned Dragon. Well... in the sense that I had the button for the Propulsive Landing Mode pressed and setup the fuel for a landing. The system is automatic and no user input is required (or permitted).

From the manual:

All versions of Dragon, except the cargo version, can land on solid ground. To do so, you should select the ground landing mode by pressing G or by pushing a button in the VC. The parachute will be jettisoned at 200 m altitude, then capsule will be rotated by LES thrusters, landing gears will be deployed, and after that, capsule will be decelerated to 0 vertical speed and landed safely. Ground landing doesn’t require any user action except selection of propulsive landing mode. Propulsive landing require at least 350 kg of fuel.

At the alt of 200m, where the PLM is supposed to run, the Dragon was plummeting towards the surface at ~70 m/s. No time to do anything. The engines didn't even fire.

 

[garyw]

hit the surface with the capsule going at around 22 m/s...rough landing...

That works out to 4,320 fpm. Almost certainly fatal. If not fatal then injuries are guaranteed as is extensive damage to the lander.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Huh... Wonder if we could Velcro some JATO-type bottles to the side to help with the decel before touch(crunch?)down. Worth a try... Just make sure that you use the Falcon Heavy upper stage to perform the deorbit burn, or make the Velcro boosters Liquid fuel and DON'T set them to jettison at MECO.

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 ----------

Oooh, just had an idea...
The Arrow can fly endoatmospheric on Mars if you're careful, and the UCGO cargos have parachutes, right? Two words: Bombing Run! That way, we can drop larger amounts of supplies than if we used the Dragons alone. Now the question is, how well do the parachutes on the UCGO crates work on Mars?

 

[garyw]

The Arrow can fly endoatmospheric on Mars if you're careful, and the UCGO cargos have parachutes, right? Two words: Bombing Run! That way, we can drop larger amounts of supplies than if we used the Dragons alone. Now the question is, how well do the parachutes on the UCGO crates work on Mars?

The UCGO parachutes will work but I don't think they'll land very gently. If you are messing around like that why not just land the Arrow on Mars?

 

[Pipcard]

Or have DGIVs?

 

[MaverickSawyer]

:blink: :facepalm: Because it can't without editing the .cfg, which wouldn't be hard. However, it's nowhere near as challenging.

Also, it's not my call: mojoey has control. I'm just pitching ideas out there.

 

[mojoey]

Or have DGIVs?

We just might have to do that. Unless the Antares LR works. We'd still have to worry about getting them back up to Arrow if we use Antares.

 

[garyw]

:blink: :facepalm: Because it can't without editing the .cfg, which wouldn't be hard. However, it's nowhere near as challenging.

Ok, Just tested it and it will need a config tweak but it still seems like an easier option?

 

[MaverickSawyer]

@ Gary: Huh. OK, I'll try it next week.
@mojoey: Gary's got a point. If we're taking the Arrow all the way there, might as well land it too.

 

[Athena]

We just might have to do that. Unless the Antares LR works. We'd still have to worry about getting them back up to Arrow if we use Antares.

Antares LR would have a rough landing at around 15-30 m/s, even with the chutes and brake engines, plus, if it can even land softly it won't have enough fuel to get back to orbit.

EDIT: I just got an idea, use UCD and woo's UCGO Platform and mount them on a Shuttle-A?

 

[mojoey]

I think that DG-IVs would be best, since the capsules won't cut it.

---------- Post added at 01:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------

Ok, looked over the Cosmic Train schedule, and I found this timeframe, leaving Jan 22nd 2014, and arriving early October 2014. Thoughts?

 

[garyw]

2nd Jan 2014 with a 329 day flight requires only 2,945m/s dV.

I thought you were also looking at a Venus sling?

 

[Pipcard]

What settings will be used for the DGIV? Will it be launched with a DG Launcher to conserve fuel for landing on Mars?

 

[Bloodworth]

I don't see why the DG-IV couldn't be taken in the arrow docking bay if it is going to be used. As far as other landers, the Arrow has 2 other docking ports that should be able to hold them.

 

[mojoey]

I don't see why the DG-IV couldn't be taken in the arrow docking bay if it is going to be used. As far as other landers, the Arrow has 2 other docking ports that should be able to hold them.

Well the plan was to use the other two for the landers, but since they can't withstand EDL, a singular DGIV should suffice in the docking bay.

---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 PM ----------

What settings will be used for the DGIV? Will it be launched with a DG Launcher to conserve fuel for landing on Mars?

Take UCGO fuel aboard Arrow, use it to replenish any lost DGIV fuel.

 

[Bloodworth]

For a mars landing with the DG-IV, fuel use would be minimal, only about 30-40% of capacity, which is good, as setting up a base will require several round trips. I can do a round trip with less than 75% of the normal fuel load of the DG-IV, and I wouldnt be surprised to learn from other pilots that I am using WAY too much. That being said, 4 UCGO space-fuel cargos should be more than sufficient for the mission.

 

[mojoey]

For a mars landing with the DG-IV, fuel use would be minimal, only about 30-40% of capacity, which is good, as setting up a base will require several round trips. I can do a round trip with less than 75% of the normal fuel load of the DG-IV, and I wouldnt be surprised to learn from other pilots that I am using WAY too much. That being said, 4 UCGO space-fuel cargos should be more than sufficient for the mission.

Indeed. Now, question is...what do we bring down?