OFMM Development: Spacecraft

Bj

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Doesn't DanSteph's ISRU do that? Just to demonstrate that it's possible. I think that realistically, the crew would not be kept awake during the trip if possible; we need to save weight in resources.


This pretty much confirms what I guessed, cryogenic sleep is not possible right now. And somehow I doubt it will be actively used within 50 years.
 

River Crab

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This pretty much confirms what I guessed, cryogenic sleep is not possible right now. And somehow I doubt it will be actively used within 50 years.
Well, by possible, I meant possible now with UMMU, not for real. I read that page, and I agree, cryogenic sleep is not near us (due to freezer burn), but that isn't the only method of suspended animation. Experiments have been done using Hydrogen Sulphide to induce a state of slowed metabolism in mice; don't know how far that's gone since, but it just shows that freezing is not the only way. And also, our goal isn't to completely stop and resurrect the crew; keeping them in a state of somewhat lowered metabolism ("knocked out") while hooked up to oxygen and an IV drip would still accomplish a preservation of resources. Plus, we don't want any psychological problems, having them living with each other in this spacecraft for months...

I'm not trying to fight what you're saying, though. It is kind of a ridiculous concept. I dunno, what does everyone else think?

Also, just a random comment, but I've frozen and revived frogs before. Seriously! They're meant to take the cold. Please don't hurt me. :shifty:
 

Bloodworth

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Well, by possible, I meant possible now with UMMU, not for real. I read that page, and I agree, cryogenic sleep is not near us (due to freezer burn), but that isn't the only method of suspended animation. Experiments have been done using Hydrogen Sulphide to induce a state of slowed metabolism in mice; don't know how far that's gone since, but it just shows that freezing is not the only way. And also, our goal isn't to completely stop and resurrect the crew; keeping them in a state of somewhat lowered metabolism ("knocked out") while hooked up to oxygen and an IV drip would still accomplish a preservation of resources. Plus, we don't want any psychological problems, having them living with each other in this spacecraft for months...

I'm not trying to fight what you're saying, though. It is kind of a ridiculous concept. I dunno, what does everyone else think?

Also, just a random comment, but I've frozen and revived frogs before. Seriously! They're meant to take the cold. Please don't hurt me. :shifty:


Having a crew on a ship for months is not traumatic for them. Between the 4 space stations that have existed, astronauts have spent as much as 18 months (possibly as much as 24, ill have to do a little research) at a stretch in a spacecraft. The 4 to 8 months it will take to get to Mars is pretty much nothing in comparison.
 

Bj

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Also, just a random comment, but I've frozen and revived frogs before. Seriously! They're meant to take the cold. Please don't hurt me. :shifty:

but I am not an amphibian :p

Having a crew on a ship for months is not traumatic for them. Between the 4 space stations that have existed, astronauts have spent as much as 18 months (possibly as much as 24, ill have to do a little research) at a stretch in a spacecraft. The 4 to 8 months it will take to get to Mars is pretty much nothing in comparison.

The only thing that might be gained from having a long hibernation is the amount of food and therefor weight we need to bring along. However, I really doubt someone can be put under anesthetics for a month at a time, and if it really would turn out beneficial.
 

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but I am not an amphibian :p



The only thing that might be gained from having a long hibernation is the amount of food and therefor weight we need to bring along. However, I really doubt someone can be put under anesthetics for a month at a time, and if it really would turn out beneficial.


Agreed; on both counts. :thumbup:
 

River Crab

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OK, I'm convinced now. Hibernation or whatever you want to call it is probably too far into the future, and there's the problem of the body weakening after floating in zero-G. Actually, I know a guy who has spent over 9 months aboard the ISS.
I think we need to take COLBERT with us, or else our crew will become weak. :lol:
 

Bj

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there's the problem of the body weakening after floating in zero-G. Actually, I know a guy who has spent over 9 months aboard the ISS.
I think we need to take COLBERT with us, or else our crew will become weak. :lol:


The 0G problem has already been identified kindof,

We will use a vehicle like this:

4188_single.jpg


That will rotate at whatever speed to generate some artificial G. Though exercise equipment will still probably be needed. :cheers:
 

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There is exercise equipment meant to help combat bone density loss in 0g, however, that does not fall within the perview of orbiter. Since we can't actually move around while ON the ships we simply declare that such equipment is present on the vessel and in use. We have so many things under development for this project that I think that the last thing any of our developers is going to want to hear is "Hey, can one of y'all model an exercise bike and figure out a way to make it usable by ummu?" :D
 

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:lol: LOL I wasn't really serious, but yeah, now I remember that design mentioned somewhere. Really cool concept! :thumbup: Yea, the guys should be just fine.
 

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Does anyone have info on how the development of the stack is going right now? Just to clarify, we are using SSBB 4.0 and the Nerva 2, correct? Looking at the wiki page, are we no longer using the stack (it makes no mention of it)? I could just be horribly misinformed :D
 

Bloodworth

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I believe that the stack idea went by the wayside, I could be very wrong on that however. BJ posted a pic earlier (just 4 posts up) of a vessel similiar to what we will be building and by the look of it, it could almost pass for the JamesCook.
 

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Not quite a James Cook, I'd think.

If we're using a tumbling pigeon design, I guess that means gravity tori are considered beyond current technology?
I mean, I know none has ever been built, (barring the ISS Centrifuge Accommodations Module that was never put into orbit) but I see no reason why the technology would be beyond us.

On second thought, thinking of the design for the OSHV, the problem with the centrifuge is: Where the heck to put it?

I think I just answered my own question... :shifty:
 

Bj

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Urwumpe posted a while ago why any small centrifuges will not work.


http://orbiter-forum.com/showpost.php?p=172246&postcount=421

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect"]Coriolis force[/ame]


Ill work out a preliminary drawing on what this vessel will look like from Earth to Mars & during construction phases, just to help get guys visualized on what this thing is. :tiphat:
 

Izack

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Urwumpe posted a while ago why any small centrifuges will not work.


http://orbiter-forum.com/showpost.php?p=172246&postcount=421

Coriolis force


Ill work out a preliminary drawing on what this vessel will look like from Earth to Mars & during construction phases, just to help get guys visualized on what this thing is. :tiphat:
Ah, I was aware of that, actually. Although, on second review it looks like the effects are a lot more pronounced that I had expected. It looks now like a really effective torus would need to be at least 20m across...
Yeah, nevermind me. The previous idea of the tumbling pigeon is the best one. :p
 

Bj

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Question:

Working on the power requirements of the system, I came to how much energy it would take to convert/mine propellant from Mars, then I came to which propellants are we going to actually use?

Are cryogenic propellants out because of the short shelf life? or might it be possible? If we could probably make LOX/LH2 for the lander, both ingredients can be harvested from Ice, though it might be rather limiting if we have to land at a ice cap. Wiki says Planum Boreum says it has 30 ppm of ice, and Planum Australe has 15% at best of ice.

I suppose we could try splitting iron oxide to get the O2 (found a way here), and collect hydrogen peroxide from the atmosphere and make hydrogen, then somehow compress them and turn them cryogenic...

I dunno, any ideas?
 

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For the lander it would be best to use UMDH and something like N2O4 as carrying the materials to make fuel at Mars would cost more then it would bring up. UMDH doesn't decompose as fast as LH2-LO2.
This is just my uneducated guess so please prove me wrong if I am.
 

Bj

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For the lander it would be best to use UMDH and something like N2O4 as carrying the materials to make fuel at Mars would cost more then it would bring up. UMDH doesn't decompose as fast as LH2-LO2.
This is just my uneducated guess so please prove me wrong if I am.

It looks like any combination of UMDH other than LOX is hypergolic. I would guess we shouldnt have any toxic materials around the landing area. For two, how much weight do you think the machines that create LOX LH2? I cannt find a reference but when browsing online i see all insitu propellent capture creation
 

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I would guess we shouldnt have any toxic materials around the landing area.

That won't be an issue as long as the fuel doesn't get onto the spacesuits. What you want to avoid is getting anything nasty into a habitat or spacecraft where it gets into the air and irritates the astronauts eyes and lungs.

If you are taking things that far then you'll need to include a medical kit and medical cross training.
 

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If you are taking things that far then you'll need to include a medical kit and medical cross training.


I hope we're not taking things that far. The idea isn't to completely redesign orbiter for the sake of one mission.
 

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I hope we're not taking things that far. The idea isn't to completely redesign orbiter for the sake of one mission.

There was talk of NPC's and Gamesmaster roleplaying so it sounds like it's got the potential to be quite big, is that the case or is OFMM getting bigger than it needs to be at this time.

Why one mission? There is a lot of planning going on for this so it would be a shame to see it end at one mission. Personally, I'd have several missions building up to the eventual landing on Mars.
 
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