My er, Interesting Model Rocket experiance.

Kyle

Armchair Astronaut
Addon Developer
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
3,912
Reaction score
339
Points
123
Website
orbithangar.com
Well, the title says the Main Idea. Now, I got the Estes Hydrogen Rocket set,
but only to find that it launches by building up pressure, not with the classic Flame (which is still fun of course). So, I found a light weight bar, that was hollow, and I pretty much made my own rocket, with the Nose cone, an Estes Parachute, (Large) and a Nossle to hold my fuel.

Now, you may remember that Hydrogen is flammable, and so did I, I wasn't in the mood to take risks. I took the powder that is the Hydrogen into my Rocket, and added H20 to my rocket. Now, I wanted to make the fuel similar to that used on the Space Shuttle (remember, the Space Shuttle uses Hydrogen and Liquid O2) Most folks don't have Liquid O2 in there backyards, so I thought "Hey, theres O2 in Water, and the water is in liquid form, lets try it"

Now, you may also be wondering "How did you hold the rocket fuel in place without it leaking?" I came up with a very interesting idea, I placed a smaller tube inside the rocket, and slowly pored in the rocket fuel of sorts, then I used Super glue to place a top onto the tube, and waited a few before ready. But how did I manage to get the Conductor thing that you place on the end of the Launch Igniter? Well, At the bottom of the tube, I place a hole, and put in the conductor, and place some duck tape on the end of it.

I placed the rocket into position on my proclaimed "LC-39A" and I got that same anxiety feeling when you get when your about to launch your Model rocket, I clicked the button, and Off she went, I could hear the engine roar to life as soon as I clicked the button, I could see the flame, the smoke was very interesting, thick like a cloud. And, then the parachute deployed, and I could still see the rocket, gleaming in sunlight!

I found the rocket in the near by field, it was looking pretty intact, so, I did the same thing again, and again placed her on my LC-39A, I got the anxiety feeling again, and I clicked the button, I was hoping to see a very cool launch, But, then "BOOM!" The rocket exploded! My LC-39A was pretty much destroyed, the rocket vanished into a challenger explosion like smoke.

I Figured out later, that the rocket when I recovered it, had a near blow through, similar to STS-51C's Discovery Flight. When I launched it again, apparently the tube inside my rocket couldnt hold the fuel, and It leaked through, but unlike Challenger, there was no aluminum to stop it, it burned through the metal, and as soon as it ignited, it exploded.
 

Quick_Nick

Passed the Turing Test
Donator
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
4,088
Reaction score
204
Points
103
Location
Tucson, AZ
Wow! It sounds amazing that this works! Unfortunate about the explosion but at least you know that it is possible to get a successful launch with this. I think I'll have to try this when I can, but I'll have to launch from a remote area to not get in trouble. ;) Are you sure that the water is actually doing anything like Liquid O2? I would think it might just create a diluted liquid hydrogen fuel instead of actually acting as a seperate part of the fuel.
Also, when your fuel burns and your rocket lifts off, how does the fuel not just drop out of the motor?
EDIT(again): Now that I think about the fact that hydrogen is already in water, maybe it does work like shuttle fuel...
 

Andy44

owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
Addon Developer
Joined
Nov 22, 2007
Messages
7,620
Reaction score
7
Points
113
Location
In the Mid-Atlantic states
This is a cool story. Sounds like you're burning gaseous O2 and H2, not liquid. Did you take notes and make diagrams?
 

Kyle

Armchair Astronaut
Addon Developer
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
3,912
Reaction score
339
Points
123
Website
orbithangar.com
Well, I did it pretty much off the top of my head. I actually was using tap water strait from
my Sink, and the H2 from a kit. It was very interesting to note also, that when the Engines ignited, you know when you get that very brieft roar that sounds like a firework going up,
I got the "popcorn" Sorta effect that you would hear the Space Shuttle. I try it again, But it was AMAZING to see this thing fly! The plume was like the Space Shuttle itself!

I and considereing if I do it again, I will A.) post photos B.) this time seperate the O2 from the H2, with a modified tube. and C.) Use a less hollow Main Body!
Any other suggestions would be a great thing, like safety, Range, Type of fuel, ect. Anything that would make a second attempt better.
 

Kyle

Armchair Astronaut
Addon Developer
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
3,912
Reaction score
339
Points
123
Website
orbithangar.com
So, Anyone can come up with ideas to help me with next Launch.
 

Kyle

Armchair Astronaut
Addon Developer
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
3,912
Reaction score
339
Points
123
Website
orbithangar.com
New Rocket, Please help with ideas.

Alright, see my Previous Rocket expirement here.
http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=1592

What I want to do this time, Is to Take another one of my Model Rockets, any idea's? Be sure to base them off the linked Thread of my other launch.,
Thanks.
 

reverend

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Beta Tester
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
221
Reaction score
2
Points
18
I've never tried these hydrogen rocket kits. Sounds fun. Usually sucessful gaseous or liquid motors are severely more complex than regular solid rocket motors. I'd need to see more specs to determine how to improve it.

Need to know chamber diameter and length, exit diameter, fuel volumes etc.

PS: Merged the threads and moved both to BYR.
 

Eagle

The Amazing Flying Tuna Can
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,105
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Need to know chamber diameter and length, exit diameter, fuel volumes etc.


Isn't the rocket itself just a glorified Nerf Arrow? I think all of the combustion takes place soon after ignition and the rocket accelerates as it slides up and off a tube from the force of the hot steam and air.
 

ar81

Active member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
2,350
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Location
Costa Rica
Website
www.orbithangar.com
I wonder if electrolysis could be used for a hybrid car, mixed with gasoline inside cars.
You separate oxygen and hydrogen. Send oxygen to carburator, and hydrogen directly into the pistons. For every 1 kg of hydrogen you need 7.9 of oxygen, so the amount of hydrogen is really small. If you tie electrolysis to engine revolutions you would have no hydrogen when car is stopped. And the only hydrogen you would have would be in the pipes between the electrolysis chamber and the pistons.

Do you think it is possible?
 

cjp

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
856
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
West coast of Eurasia
I wonder if electrolysis could be used for a hybrid car, mixed with gasoline inside cars.
[..]

Do you think it is possible?

Maybe if you add an extra energy source like gasoline, but in that case it sounds like a waste of energy. Example:
Let's say we have 100 units of mechanical energy coming out of the engine. Maybe you use 90 units for driving, and 10 units for powering the electrolysis. Suppose the electrolysis has an efficiency of 30%, that leaves you 3 units of chemical energy in the form of hydrogen. Now you burn that in your engine to create mechanical energy, but the combustion engine maybe has an efficiency of 33%, which generates only 1 unit of mechanical energy from the hydrogen alone. To keep the cycle running you need 100 units, so you need to get 99 units from burning of gasoline; with a 33% efficiency, you need 297 units of chemical energy as gasoline. Without the hydrogen cycle, you'd get 99 units of mechanical energy from the engine (instead of 100), but you could use all of them for driving, which is more than the 90 units with the hydrogen.

Now back to the rocket: I really doubt whether adding water to the rocket itself would contribute. It certainly won't help in the reaction: to get H2 or O2 from water, you need to add more energy to it than you'd get from burning H2+O2. Typically you'd do that offline (before the launch), using an energy source like electricity (or maybe these crystals???), storing all the energy in the generated H2 and O2.

Maybe it helps in a mechanical way, like in a water rocket. In that case, your rocket may be a hot-gas driven water rocket, with the gas being the hot reaction product from the burning of an H2/O2 gas mixture.

I'd love to see a video. You say it has an exhaust plume like the space shuttle? But the space shuttle's smoke mainly comes from its SRBs, not from its hydrogen engines. Burning hydrogen only gives you steam, which is invisible, and when it cools down it might give a white vapor trail, like you can sometimes see behind an airplane.
 

tonykattvc

Just call me Tekwerk.
Addon Developer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
107
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Traverse City
Well he did say the exaust looked like clouds, and since clouds are mostly made of water, it might be a steam driven rocket.
 

MeDiCS

Donator
Donator
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
2
Points
0
:speakcool:!
Now I want to build my own launch vehicle :p
 

nathan3011

New member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hi,

Thanks for sharing with us that story sounds kool wish i could have seen Public Liability Insurance, how big was the explosion by the way?

Did you find a way to allow you to launch the rocket multiple times in the end, if so any chance you can let us know how??

Thanks in Advance
 
Last edited:
Top