Live "training" session for NASSP

[bcirka]

Anyone interested in doing a "live" training session using Discord or a screen streaming service like Mixer or Twitch?

I'm no beginner to Orbiter, but definitely am to NASSP. And I feel like watching someone step through a mission (say an early one like Apollo 7 or 8) would be invaluable insight in starting the path to learn.

I'm curious if there are other beginners who would find this valuable + if we could find a "pro" kind enough to share their knowledge.

I'd be happy to help arrange the details if the interest is there.

 

[Mambo]

+1 great idea, it would be helpful.

 

[grummanonewire]

I second this however videos for on demand such as youtube

As well as hints and tricks to meet real mission consumables targets i.e. I've once used 25% RCS on TD&E where I want to say the actual targeted contingency was 15 % on the high side needless to say I did not keep that and restarted right before separation

 

[grummanonewire]

Yes but in on demand format

as well as hints and tricks as I find myself way above real life RCS parameters

 

[bcirka]

Agreed Grumman. Definitely an opportunity to use a session like this to create training material. I'm thinking community volunteers (I'd be willing to help) could take the information provided, then cut it down into topical chunks, etc.

Either way, it begins with us finding someone kind enough to do a demo session.

Any experienced NASSP'ers willing to take us through an early (and I assume easier?) mission like Apollo 7 or 8? I'll help to arrange the screen share technology, if needed.

 

[macieksoft]

I second this however videos for on demand such as youtube

As well as hints and tricks to meet real mission consumables targets i.e. I've once used 25% RCS on TD&E where I want to say the actual targeted contingency was 15 % on the high side needless to say I did not keep that and restarted right before separation

I was a pig on RCS fuel some time ago.
Now i use much less fuel, it takes some practice and also some tricks (like using GDC to orient the thing).

Hope that this video will help a little:

 

[meik84]

Maybe I'll find the motivation to buy both a new headset and a new joystick this month. And take a look at this screencast thingy...

 

[thammond]

I too would love to see some type of training/tutorial material in whatever format. One of the challenges is that any training or tutorial material made will slowly become obsolete as additional development occurs. There are some you-tube tutorials out there, but they are for older versions.

Not sure how you keep any training or tutorials up to date?

 

[bcirka]

meik84 - Maybe all this interest from the beginners will be the right amount of motivation Keep in touch if you're interested in helping out.

thammond - Yeah, great point. I almost see training as a level-by-level approach.

At the highest level, something like "Orbital Mechanics 101" (of which there are many already out there)

Next, something like, "Basic Systems & Maneuvers of Apollo Spacecraft." No button clicks yet, just the concepts. I'm about 20% through reading the Apollo Operations manual, and this seems to be covered there. BUT, it would be nice if we had trainings to give folks the essentials without them needing to read an astronaut manual to get started.

Then, finally, something like "Apollo Spacecraft - Launch to SIV-B Separation" complete with step by step button clicks (notably highlighting the "yellow" parts that we need to perform manually)

I think the first two levels would be fairly static, its only that final level that would change much based on development.

I'm not suggesting we can jump to this sort of robust training yet, but its something we could get started with a few demos from experienced users.

 

[meik84]

One of the challenges is that any training or tutorial material made will slowly become obsolete as additional development occurs.

That depends on the system you want to cover. The SCS for example is almost 100% like the real one, there won't be any bigger changes. Same does apply to the CMC. Maybe we'll find the original software for each flight one day, but that won't change the basics. You can fly Colossus 237 almost like Artemis 72; there are some differences due to new features and bugfixes, but that will make things easier, not harder. The only thing that will see some changes in the future will be the LM; there are still some things missing, especially in the EPS and ECS. In the CSM are only minor things missing, like the auto and reacquire modes for the high gain antenna or a more detailed simulation of the glycol loops.

Orbital Mechanics 101

That's really a general orbiter thing.

Basic Systems & Maneuvers of Apollo Spacecraft

That's a biggie. I guess I could talk over an hour about the SCS and CMC alone and only cover the basics. ECS and EPS are easier in that respect, configure them once and the rest will run more or less automatically.

Apollo Spacecraft - Launch to SIV-B Separation

That's easy. Don't know how often I've put this white needle into orbit...:lol:

 

[bcirka]

And really, its that last thing I want to start with and work backwards up the chain.

I'd like to have a training session watching someone actually fly a mission as a starting point.

 

[MikeB]

This thread shows a need for more persistent guidance than Orbiter Forum can provide. I really hope the NASSP experts can help to develop some sort of training material. I would like to use it myself.

I would like to suggest a home for any such material: the "Rocket Science For Amateurs" section of the OrbiterWiki.
https://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Rocket_Science_For_Amateurs

If I can be of any help in adding material to the wiki, please contact me.

 

[Cavalier]

This all strikes me as an excellent idea! Count me in, if we get it to clear the tower!

 

[bcirka]

So I LOVE the enthusiasm from everyone...now...anyone willing to share their knowledge?

I'm 45 minutes into the Apollo 7 scenario...that's literally it for me. Someone here has for sure completed these missions!

We need you!

 

[MrFickles]

I'd be happy to help if anyone wants to know how to 'do stuff' on NASSP. Where do I start?

 

[indy91]

As the main person who worked on checklists and MCC support for Apollo 7 I have flown the whole mission three times already! And that is as boring as it sounds, as one of the main objectives of the mission was "coast around in Earth orbit as long as possible to see when things start breaking". Anyway, for the 50th anniversary for Apollo 11 I actually thought about streaming a lunar landing. But during testing for that I realized just how terrible my upload speed is, so streams are pretty much out of the question for me.

But I am definitely willing to make some tutorial-like videos on Youtube. So far I have mainly done videos on new features and weird/rare procedures. I agree with meik84, "Orbital Mechanics 101" is a very general thing and 75% of "Basic Systems & Maneuvers of Apollo Spacecraft" are best covered by reading through the Apollo Operations Handbooks. But I can make a video that shows "Apollo Spacecraft - Launch to S-IVB Separation" for Apollo 7 or 8. Or probably multiple videos, that takes a bit of time.

 

[MrFickles]

I'm thinking of making 'bite-size' videos of the common procedures. But if someone else is going for the same thing, I'll leave it to them. I'm not very good at making videos.

Question is, do you guys want to see EVERY button press and switch throw? Or do I leave auto-checklist on and just focus on the yellow text procedures?

If anyone wants some one-on-one tutoring, I'm game as well. You can catch me on Discord. Splynn#3195

 

[bcirka]

Indy91/McFickles - Awesome that you both are willing to share your experience with us novices. We very much appreciate it.

I think what makes most sense is doing a video of a fly-through of a mission only covering the "manual"/yellow checklist items. This can at least get people "up and flying" without having to learn all the non-manual items all at once.

Few things:
---Does it make sense to demo a "harder" mission (perhaps Apollo 11) such that learning the concepts of that particular mission would allow the user to fly "easier" missions (Apollo 7/8?) using the concepts learned?
---How long does an average mission take to fly (assuming only doing yellow checklist + using time warp)?
---It still might be a cool idea to do a community stream such that beginner's could ask questions (why did you do this instead of that?) which might make the training more robust.

MrFickles - I just sent you a Discord invite from SherpaPSU8408. Thanks!

 

[MrFickles]

I think what makes most sense is doing a video of a fly-through of a mission only covering the "manual"/yellow checklist items. This can at least get people "up and flying" without having to learn all the non-manual items all at once.

Ok, I'll see what I can do

Does it make sense to demo a "harder" mission (perhaps Apollo 11) such that learning the concepts of that particular mission would allow the user to fly "easier" missions (Apollo 7/8?) using the concepts learned?

In terms of difficulty, I would say Apollo 7 is the most complex mission, at least for a CSM. Anyway, it's not so practical to demo a mission from start to finish, a lot of time would be spent doing nothing, better to do stuff topically.

How long does an average mission take to fly (assuming only doing yellow checklist + using time warp)?

Days to weeks, depending on how much time you commit each day.

It still might be a cool idea to do a community stream such that beginner's could ask questions (why did you do this instead of that?) which might make the training more robust.

Maybe not so practical for me living on the other side of the world from most of you guys.

MrFickles - I just sent you a Discord invite from SherpaPSU8408. Thanks!

accepted

---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 AM ----------

Something like this maybe?

 

[kuddel]

I appreciate your effort :thumbup:, but a tutorial is more than just a video.
If one has no clue on what is happening (like a narration wound give) it is almost impossible to follow the sequence of events.
This is what makes those things hard. A lot of work has to be put into a tutorial video.

Don't get me wrong, a "not-perfect" video is far better than nothing :yes: and I fully understand if you don't like your own voice on video -I don't like my own recorded voice either-.