Jupiter vs. Ares

[Pquardzvaark]

This does look like a fun debate for another thread. After all, yes without the initial government involvement would the technology to make commercial spaceflight have been developed? Or as rapidly?

Anyway I've got that AIAA on my computer, should really read it this weekend before I ask any relevant questions.

 

[Linguofreak]

If the rocket was powerful enough.

Which it's not. So you just lose the mass altogether. Getting rid of a "bug" by using a weaker rocket isn't a good way to fix a bug.

Granted.

Stick to the process: figure out how much you want your spacecraft to mass, then design a launcher that can lift it, and build-in margin from the get-go. Von Braun asked NASA how much Apollo would weigh, and then designed the Saturns to lift that mass plus a healthy margin, knowing the mass would grow. It did, and his rockets were up to the task. NASA is now doing it backwards. Trying to make the capsule fit the launcher, which can't be made bigger without scrapping the SRB segments and going to a fatter diameter or going liquid.

Yes. That is stupidity.

 

[T.Neo]

Stick to the process: figure out how much you want your spacecraft to mass, then design a launcher that can lift it, and build-in margin from the get-go. Von Braun asked NASA how much Apollo would weigh, and then designed the Saturns to lift that mass plus a healthy margin, knowing the mass would grow. It did, and his rockets were up to the task. NASA is now doing it backwards. Trying to make the capsule fit the launcher, which can't be made bigger without scrapping the SRB segments and going to a fatter diameter or going liquid.

Yeah, pretty much. This is what makes me angry at NASA...