Question Invade Venus

[kamaz]

Self-replicating factories, huh?

Assuming that Venusians are at the same tech level, they will drop self-replicating nanobots on your site. Nanobots, being much simpler than factories will multiply at much faster rate and consume your entire island within a day or two.

 

[Andy44]

Not as bad as it might sound - a 1 megatonne missile, like what can be expected from a sub, only have a really effective radius of about 500 metres against a military-grade target.

So, 60 missiles would only cover an area 8 by 8 kilometres.

We would have 3 or 4 landing sites, each would produce several decoys, and split into two real groups - that plus ABM really diminishes the amount of nukes per real target.

That sounds optimistic.

If it's all the same I'll sit this landing out. I don't want to be one of the troops trying to survive 1 MT bombs 500 m away, no matter what kind of protection I have! :leaving:

 

[fsci123]

Self-replicating factories, huh?

Assuming that Venusians are at the same tech level, they will drop self-replicating nanobots on your site. Nanobots, being much simpler than factories will multiply at much faster rate and consume your entire island within a day or two.

Nano swarms have heat problems, consumption problems, and containment problems. I doubt that nano swarms will be used for anything other than terrorist activities.

 

[Andy44]

I for one welcome our new Venusian overlords.

 

[Artlav]

Assuming that Venusians are at the same tech level, they will drop self-replicating nanobots on your site. Nanobots, being much simpler than factories will multiply at much faster rate and consume your entire island within a day or two.

Nanobots are an entirely different order of complexity than a simple universal factory.

Even if they could be made, they are only that efficient in movies - real ones are going to be docile outside of a specialized environment, due to a lack of a power source.

Even if they were possible, releasing self-replicating nanobots that consume everything into the environment is doomsday-scale mistake - it would take one faulty bot, one bad replication, one programmer's mistake, and you would suddenly have your whole planet being consumed and turned into grey goo.

That sounds optimistic.

Really effective = guaranteed vaporisation no matter what.
I didn't say it would be pleasant.

 

[N_Molson]

0) Send several stealth satellites to precision mapping and reconnaissance purposes.
1) Build rockets, as many as you can. Proton would fit pretty well the purpose I think, as it can launch nearly 4 tons to Venus (according to the Venera missions). More if you launch from the Equator BTW.
2) Mount multiple, tactical ICBMs on the satellite dispensers.
3) Fire everything in one big salvo, harder to intercept.
4) Each rocket rains several warheads on the planet. Spreading all over the emerged lands is the key.
5) Send some probe (with "Hail that f... Probe you nuked Venusians !" painted on the side) to assess the devastation and plant a "Earth rocks" flag.
6) Enjoy Venus as it is in real life.

 

[MattBaker]

0) Send several stealth satellites to precision mapping and reconnaissance purposes.

What exactly is a stealth satellite? The LRO would be an example for a similar satellite and it is relatively easy to detect by someone. And the moment you send data back from Venus orbit to Earth it should become obvious that something is going on. So like a Russian spy satellite with a film canister that has to be brought back? And in a really high orbit at the edge of the SOI so Venusians might not detect you? But it should map precisely.

Create an airplane race series, companies from both planets build aircraft that have to fly the fastest from A to B on the planet. Let it have editions on both planets. Enter your own aircraft that is equipped with accurate mapping devices and a co-pilot (like an SR-71). Have this series continue for a couple of years until you have flown over any Venusian spot.

 

[thepenguin]

What exactly is a stealth satellite? The LRO would be an example for a similar satellite and it is relatively easy to detect by someone. And the moment you send data back from Venus orbit to Earth it should become obvious that something is going on. So like a Russian spy satellite with a film canister that has to be brought back? And in a really high orbit at the edge of the SOI so Venusians might not detect you? But it should map precisely.

Create an airplane race series, companies from both planets build aircraft that have to fly the fastest from A to B on the planet. Let it have editions on both planets. Enter your own aircraft that is equipped with accurate mapping devices and a co-pilot (like an SR-71). Have this series continue for a couple of years until you have flown over any Venusian spot.

Paint the rockets black. It would at least decrease visibility somewhat. Not a very viable strategy unless you also go for radar absorption tiles.

 

[Izack]

Paint the rockets black. It would at least decrease visibility somewhat. Not a very viable strategy unless you also go for radar absorption tiles.

In which case you're absorbing extra sunlight, which has to be radiated. There is no possibility of stealth in space, without nigh-infinite heat sinks.

 

[RisingFury]

There is no possibility of stealth in space, without nigh-infinite heat sinks.

I think this concept is way wrong. Asteroids and comets do stealth quite well to us and they're not all that small. I think it's possible to design spacecraft that are damn near impossible to detect until they're right on top of you.

 

[jedidia]

I think this concept is way wrong. Asteroids and comets do stealth quite well to us and they're not all that small.

They have the advantage of being about the same temparature as the surrounding space, a temperature generally unhealthy to people... :shifty:

Even if you have an unmanned craft, like say an interplanetary missile, it will still prove somewhat difficult to conceal the maneuvering phases, and it will need some form of powersupply that generates heat...

Now, I agree, if the problem is just concealing them from one particular point in space (Venus, in this case), this is managable. If they happen to have a good heat imaging telescope stationed at a lagrange point, it's already going to be more difficult...

 

[RisingFury]

They have the advantage of being about the same temparature as the surrounding space, a temperature generally unhealthy to people... :shifty:

Even if you have an unmanned craft, like say an interplanetary missile, it will still prove somewhat difficult to conceal the maneuvering phases, and it will need some form of powersupply that generates heat...

Now, I agree, if the problem is just concealing them from one particular point in space (Venus, in this case), this is managable. If they happen to have a good heat imaging telescope stationed at a lagrange point, it's already going to be more difficult...

Every telescope or other sensor has the issue of resolution. Just like we have RADARs and anti RADAR technology now, there will be detectors and ways to trick them in the future.

 

[jedidia]

Every telescope or other sensor has the issue of resolution. Just like we have RADARs and anti RADAR technology now, there will be detectors and ways to trick them in the future.

Nobody said they had to pinpoint the location exactly. It's enough to know that there's something warmer than it should be somewhere around an approximate location, and further tracking will reveal the course. You might not be able to take shots at it, but you know that something's there and where it's going. The only way to circumvent that is let no radiation escape towards the telescope, which implies knowing where they are (which, funnily enough, is not so difficult as there's no stealth in space, but it might be tough to identify it as a telescope...).
As I said, not impossible, but depending on the coverage not a simple matter either (and you still have to veil your initial burn, because there's just no hiding that other than behind a planet).

 

[Izack]

I think this concept is way wrong. Asteroids and comets do stealth quite well to us and they're not all that small. I think it's possible to design spacecraft that are damn near impossible to detect until they're right on top of you.

You have a good point there. I still think that it would be nearly impossible to mask a Venus insertion from the Cytherians, though.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

They have the advantage of being about the same temparature as the surrounding space, a temperature generally unhealthy to people... :shifty:

So, put a free-flying thermal shield ahead of you to mask your approach. maybe have it actively cooled, with the radiators on the back side on some sort of boom to avoid reheating the shield.

 

[jedidia]

So, put a free-flying thermal shield ahead of you to mask your approach. maybe have it actively cooled, with the radiators on the back side on some sort of boom to avoid reheating the shield.

As I said, if you know they have only one point of observation, it's managable...

 

[MattBaker]

As I said, if you know they have only one point of observation, it's managable...

"Sorry dude, our storage is full and we can only dump it when Venus has rotated around so they can't see us dumping warmish stuff."
"But I really have to pee!"

 

[thepenguin]

If you approach from the side of the sun, it could work.

Think like that asteroid that hit Russia this year.

EDIT: That was last year. It's after January 1st hsnap:

 

[John_L]

Send the 3 Stooges!

 

[jedidia]

If you approach from the side of the sun, it could work.

approaching Venus from the sun sounds like an extremely high energy transfer (also, you might get grilled on the way...) :shifty: