New Release Interplanetary Modular Spacecraft RC9

[PeterRoss]

Ok, further testing has been completed...
- I have found that the J-2XIM is FAR superior to the heavier NERVA engine. For the same fuel volume, I get a little more than twice as much delta V (2.5km/s for NERVA, 5.1km/s for J-2XIM).

J-2X specs are taken from wikipedia... :hmm:
As for fuel volume - keep in mind that LOX_LH2 needed for J-2XIM is much heavier than the same volume of LH2 needed for NERVA. If you'll try to compare engines in the terms of propellant mass needed to achieve the same dV, you'll see it in a new light.

- Aerobraking is too easy: stuff needs to overheat and break! During a test earlier today, I hit 48.55kPa, and was fully engulfed in plasma, but the only heat issue was because I had closed the radiators and shut down the cooling system for safety.

Aerobraking isn't implemented yet. As far as I remember (but maybe I'm wrong here) the default aerodynamic model for a vessel is the one of Deltaglider or similar to it.

- What's the daily consumption rate of consumables per person? I'm trying to edit a container to hold consumables, but I can't get it so that everything runs out at the same time.

Oxygen: 0.82 kg/day
Water: 3.52 kg/day (water consumed with food included)
Food: 0.62 kg/day (dry/frozen food)

 

[MaverickSawyer]

J-2X specs are taken from wikipedia... :hmm:
As for fuel volume - keep in mind that LOX_LH2 needed for J-2XIM is much heavier than the same volume of LH2 needed for NERVA. If you'll try to compare engines in the terms of propellant mass needed to achieve the same dV, you'll see it in a new light.

I realize that. The fact that it makes for a much more compact ship is what I find far outweighs (pun intended ) the better fuel efficiency.

Aerobraking isn't implemented yet. As far as I remember (but maybe I'm wrong here) the default aerodynamic model for a vessel is the one of Deltaglider or similar to it.

A DG?!?!? Hrm... I can see at least three ways of abusing that just right now!!! :lol:

Oxygen: 0.82 kg/day
Water: 3.52 kg/day (water consumed with food included)
Food: 0.62 kg/day (dry/frozen food)

OK, thanks. I needed the ratios to rebalance all the supplies.

 

[jedidia]

I realize that. The fact that it makes for a much more compact ship is what I find far outweighs (pun intended ) the better fuel efficiency.

LH2 might be the technically most efficient propellant, but it is a pain to handle, that's true. Be glad I didn't get around to implementing cryiogenics...

Anyways, it depends on where you want to go. The problem is that the NERVA isn't really an extremely good engine for pretty much anything... for short trips there's better solutions, and for long trips there's also better solutions...

- Aerobraking is too easy: stuff needs to overheat and break!

requires atmospheric heating code, which I just couldn't get done anymore...

 

[PeterRoss]

requires atmospheric heating code, which I just couldn't get done anymore...

Sounds too fatalistic...

 

[jedidia]

Right, Source code is finally up in the development group along with a bit of explanation how to probably solve the existing issues. BruceJohnJennerLawson will get an invite to the group. Sorry for taking so long!

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Okay, Im getting the hang of IMS right now, but I'm a little confused about building Greg Burches centrifuge on my L2 station project. Im going to attach the scn file so someone can take a look & tell me what Ive done wrong (besides power generation, Im posting an old savestate, but even with enough power generation the centrifuge didnt work)

View attachment Venture_Station_20.scn

 

[MaverickSawyer]

did you activate it via the engineering panel? There's a tab in the system panel (big one on the left) that activates generic modules animations. This is where the Airdock and the container clamps are controlled from too.

 

[jedidia]

Note that all attachment points on a centrifuge and its components have to be used, otherwise the centrifuge considers itself unfinished and will not start to rotate (as rotating it in unfinished state would make it impossible to finish later without rotating unused attachment points along with it, which is simply too much hassle).

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Note that all attachment points on a centrifuge and its components have to be used, otherwise the centrifuge considers itself unfinished and will not start to rotate (as rotating it in unfinished state would make it impossible to finish later without rotating unused attachment points along with it, which is simply too much hassle).

Does deleting the ports also work, or do they need to be covered?

Couple other questions about some parts. What in the world is a universal coupler? How exactly does an ASTG array work (RTG module?). How exactly would the built in cooling system in a command module or a lifesupport work? (I could picture a steam turbine of sorts, very jules verne)

I was also wondering if we could discuss your plans for future development on IMS. I do have the source up and working, but Id need a "sink or swim" smilie to communicate how far I am from contributing on it.

Hmm, I tried to get the hab wheel up & running, but Im still getting nothing

View attachment Habwheel.scn

Edit: Never mind, I got the centrifuge working now. I was hoping to have the central core bounded by two centrifuges with docks on the end, but Im not sure if that will work. If Im not installing any engines on the station, how heavy of a cooling load will I need to deal with?

 

[jedidia]

Does deleting the ports also work, or do they need to be covered?

No. Deleting ports leaves the attachment points untouched.

What in the world is a universal coupler?

A patent invented by PeterRoss to dock an SSBB module with a small connector to one with a large one while looking less silly.

How exactly does an ASTG array work (RTG module?)

PeterRoss posted a link on that once, but I can't find it anymore. It is similiar to an RTG as far as I remember.

How exactly would the built in cooling system in a command module or a lifesupport work?

By battery? or what exactly is the question? it would work like any other cooling or life support system, really.

I was also wondering if we could discuss your plans for future development on IMS.

We can, but for now the only priority should be to get the existing bugs out. Anyways, if you're coding and I am not, there's not much authority I can excercise should you decide to take the code for a ride away from my imagined fields. It's technically open source, I just haven't bothered yet with putting in the the license descriptions and would have waited for R1 before releasing it.

I was hoping to have the central core bounded by two centrifuges with docks on the end, but Im not sure if that will work.

It should. If you pay attention to how you install them, you can even make them rotate in opposition.

how heavy of a cooling load will I need to deal with?

Equivalent to your power consumption plus sun influx for the MCS, assuming that power generation has its own cooling.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

By battery? or what exactly is the question? it would work like any other cooling or life support system, really.



We can, but for now the only priority should be to get the existing bugs out. Anyways, if you're coding and I am not, there's not much authority I can excercise should you decide to take the code for a ride away from my imagined fields. It's technically open source, I just haven't bothered yet with putting in the the license descriptions and would have waited for R1 before releasing it.

I mean, in absolute physical terms, how does the MCS system dispose of heat, if not through radiators. Ie, where does it dump the energy.

I just wanted to test the waters in terms of what direction IMS will expand on. I thought I heard you mention something about advanced crew simulation. Does that mean you're thinking of simulating crew happiness, bowel movements, etc.

I was thinking that adding Payload manager to IMS would be nice as a little addition as well.

 

[PeterRoss]

I mean, in absolute physical terms, how does the MCS system dispose of heat, if not through radiators. Ie, where does it dump the energy.

Absolutely nowhere. It needs radiators either way. Radiators just don't work without MCS of appropriate capacity.

I just wanted to test the waters in terms of what direction IMS will expand on. I thought I heard you mention something about advanced crew simulation. Does that mean you're thinking of simulating crew happiness, bowel movements, etc.

I think it was rather like you need to have certain specialists to run certain pieces of tech - like biologist is needed to run hydroponics etc.
Although it rises a question how would unmanned vessels be working in this case.

I was thinking that adding Payload manager to IMS would be nice as a little addition as well.

Could be great if you'll be able to solve shifting COG problem. UCD crashes with IMS vessels because of that reason.

Also, about ASTG (which appears to be ASRG in fact, mea culpa):

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Stirling_Radioisotope_Generator"]Advanced Stirling Radioisotope Generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[jedidia]

I thought I heard you mention something about advanced crew simulation. Does that mean you're thinking of simulating crew happiness, bowel movements, etc.

Pretty much, yes. But that was never on the "comming soon" list. was originally planned for IMS 2.0 at the earliest.

how does the MCS system dispose of heat, if not through radiators

It doesn't. It is a heat transportation system, not a heat dissipation system.

I was thinking that adding Payload manager to IMS would be nice as a little addition as well.

Too much trouble, too little integration. IMS is too complex to work with payload manager without some serious hacks. Better to code something from scratch, which can then also be integrated into the panels.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Absolutely nowhere. It needs radiators either way. Radiators just don't work without MCS of appropriate capacity.



I think it was rather like you need to have certain specialists to run certain pieces of tech - like biologist is needed to run hydroponics etc.
Although it rises a question how would unmanned vessels be working in this case.



Could be great if you'll be able to solve shifting COG problem. UCD crashes with IMS vessels because of that reason.

Also, about ASTG (which appears to be ASRG in fact, mea culpa):

Advanced Stirling Radioisotope Generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hadnt thought of the crew management quite that way. I also figured it might include a basic way of modelling crew sanity & maybe scheduling (UMMUs on different sleep/work schedules)

UCD probably wouldnt be the best solution then, but maybe Orbiter Payload Handler will be. :hmm:

 

[jedidia]

UCD probably wouldnt be the best solution then, but maybe Orbiter Payload Handler will be.

Same problem, I think. IMS has a totally dynamic CoG. Not only when you are building it, but also when flying it. Propellant consumption does actually influence the CoG, it will be quite different for a full and an empty vessel. For this, IMS recalculates the CoG from scratch at certain intervals. If payload positions are not directly integrated into this, things will get messy, both for positioning the meshes as well as accurately calculating the new CoG.

 

[Hlynkacg]

I'm probably missing something but what's stopping you from defining a simple cargo deck module?

The cargo deck's location would be updated by IMS in the same way that docking port and thruster locations are and then the cargo's location would be defined relative to the deck's.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I'm probably missing something but what's stopping you from defining a simple cargo deck module?

The cargo deck's location would be updated by IMS in the same way that docking port and thruster locations are and then the cargo's location would be defined relative to the deck's.

Nothing, but if it were integrated into IMS, the CG shifting would mess with it. A basic attachment point one would be nice though, and UCGO will probably be needed eventually.

 

[jedidia]

The cargo deck's location would be updated by IMS in the same way that docking port and thruster locations are and then the cargo's location would be defined relative to the deck's.

Not sure if that would work. There's issues with updating the visuals of objects that are attached to objects that are attached to your vessel (basically, they never get the news that their position changed). I'm not sure this would make it impossible, but the whole thing would get clumsy for several reasons. Not Impossible I imagine, but It'd probably be faster to code one up yourself. I mean, it's not like it would be that difficult to code in the first place. Most of the infrastructure needed for a payload system is already inherent in the IMS concept.

and UCGO will probably be needed eventually.

I would suggest going for an "internalized" UCGO approach. That is, the ability to "store" UCGO cargoes inside storage modules , that is, destroying them and recreating them when they are needed. That way you won't run into trouble with either CG-shifting and the 40-max limit of UCGO.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Okay, still getting the hang of things in IMS. I think I'm fairly close to understanding how to use the add-on, but Ive also started into some generic C++ tutorials, in order to gain experience before diving into the source code.

I was working on my station building project last night & I had some problems, some bugs, and maybe some user-side incompetence.

View attachment Venture_Station.scn

I plan to assemble this at the EML2 point, in order to provide a refuelling station for missions to the moon and beyond. Several problems have cropped up in the course of it though.

-Only one centrifuge will run, giving me some very strange results while its at it (try the scenario to see what I mean)

-I cant seem to power up some of the modules on the hab wheel, even though I'm only using a quarter of the reactors capacity. Is there some sort of limit to how fast I can increase its output? (and adding some batteries to draw on will help?)

Im sure someone has said this before, but IMS would be immensely easier if we had some sort of prototyping application available for speeding up construction.

I didnt really want to go the nuclear route on this station, but I find it difficult to place the standard solar arrays without them orienting themselves in ways that collide with the hull. Would it be possible to create one that remains static directionally like the radiators do?

 

[jedidia]

I cant seem to power up some of the modules on the hab wheel, even though I'm only using a quarter of the reactors capacity.

Are they on the habwheel that won't turn? In that case, the wheel considers itself unfinished for some reason.

Im sure someone has said this before, but IMS would be immensely easier if we had some sort of prototyping application available for speeding up construction.

I am aware that a scenario editor like interface would increase usability tremendously. Alas, I never got around to writing one...

I find it difficult to place the standard solar arrays without them orienting themselves in ways that collide with the hull.

Would need a new class of solar arrays that calculate the current power input based on the sun angle, or a flag and some changes in the code of the current one. Nothing too difficult, most of the code is already there for the radiators.