New Release Interplanetary Modular Spacecraft RC9

[PeterRoss]

Well, I was right. You finalized your vessel by pressing 'finalize' button on the engineering panel (in early versions of IMS the 'c' button was assigned to finalization too, don't know if it still works this way in RC2). Finalization means that all your construction docking ports are being removed, leaving only permaent ones. Few modules have permanent docks, it is shown on modules' preview pictures. DADG Docking Adapter is an example of such module.

 

[Mauler85]

Well, I was right. You finalized your vessel by pressing 'finalize' button on the engineering panel (in early versions of IMS the 'c' button was assigned to finalization too, don't know if it still works this way in RC2). Finalization means that all your construction docking ports are being removed, leaving only permaent ones. Few modules have permanent docks, it is shown on modules' preview pictures. DADG Docking Adapter is an example of such module.

I figured as much. I have a new one going and it is working fine now. Already made mistakes with this one. lol I have a solar panel intersecting my Hab ring. Thanks for the help though.

 

[PeterRoss]

Feel free to ask any question about IMS, I'll try my best to answer. :tiphat:

 

[MaverickSawyer]

OK, time for a report from the field test facility...
The overall balance of parts is outstanding. However, there are a few things that I am not certain of...
- The cooling system: how big of a module do you need? I ran up a HUGE ship trying to install the needed cooling capacity for the NERVA, and it seemed fine after I shut down all but one of them. So, how much is enough?
- The large, IMS stock fuel tanks need a third, radial docking port. There's already some sort of hardpoint-like device there. I think that it would significantly reduce the rotation inertia by allowing them to be packed along the ship in a linear bundle, like the Delta II GEM motors.
- Can someone make a SSBB 4.1-style truss without the additional docking ports on the long sides? Sometimes, I find I need the extension without the added ports.

Otherwise, runs great.

 

[Izack]

- Can someone make a SSBB 4.1-style truss without the additional docking ports on the long sides? Sometimes, I find I need the extension without the added ports.

In the meantime, you can probably just copy its config into a new truss and delete the ports.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Docking bug

OK, finally figuring stuff out. However, there appears to be a bug with the ship I've designed. It docks... rather oddly. See the attached picture.

 

[PeterRoss]

- The cooling system: how big of a module do you need? I ran up a HUGE ship trying to install the needed cooling capacity for the NERVA, and it seemed fine after I shut down all but one of them. So, how much is enough?

All engines' configs should be redone in terms of cooling. NERVA should not need any external cooling at all, as well as any other NTR or chemical engine. I'll make correct configs in the nearest time.

- The large, IMS stock fuel tanks need a third, radial docking port. There's already some sort of hardpoint-like device there. I think that it would significantly reduce the rotation inertia by allowing them to be packed along the ship in a linear bundle, like the Delta II GEM motors.

Stock IMS modules are made by jedidia and... errr... sorry, can't remember his name :lol: I can remake it by myself if jedidia is agree.

- Can someone make a SSBB 4.1-style truss without the additional docking ports on the long sides? Sometimes, I find I need the extension without the added ports.

I was thinking about making such trusses. Well, why not?

In the meantime, you can probably just copy its config into a new truss and delete the ports.

Or you can simply delete unneeded ports with "Rem.Ports" button on the engineering panel. No need in any messing with configs.

OK, finally figuring stuff out. However, there appears to be a bug with the ship I've designed. It docks... rather oddly. See the attached picture.

Please post your scenario here, I'll have a look.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Can do. I'll post the ship file as well.
EDIT: The scenario is attached. Here's the .cfg for the problem craft as well:

ClassName = IMS
Module = IMS/IMS
MESHNAME = burchismo\BM201
COMMANDCLASS = IMS\SBB41B\BM201_CONTROL_MODULE
  COMMAND 0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BN200_Big_Node 0,0,-7.276 0,1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BM203_Consumables 0,0,-14.5521 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BM204_LifeSupport 7.2761,0,-7.276 -1,0,0 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BM202_Habitat -7.2761,0,-7.276 1,0,0 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BM216_Hydroponics 0,7.276,-7.276 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BM216_Hydroponics 0,-7.276,-7.276 0,1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BN301_Trussed_Node 0,0,-21.8281 0,1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT302_LargeTrussToSmallTruss_Short 0,0,-25.5211 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT301_LargeTrussToSmallTruss 5.185,0,-21.8281 -1,0,0 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT301_LargeTrussToSmallTruss -5.185,0,-21.8281 1,0,0 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT301_LargeTrussToSmallTruss 0,5.185,-21.8281 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT301_LargeTrussToSmallTruss 0,-5.185,-21.8281 0,1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS2_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 8.732,0,-21.8281 1,0,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS2_ReactionControlSystem_Engine -8.732,0,-21.8281 -1,0,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS2_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,8.732,-21.8281 0,1,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS2_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,-8.732,-21.8281 0,-1,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT101_Truss 0,0,-32.0901 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank101_LH2_LFuelTank 3.3293,0,-32.0901 0,0,1 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank101_LH2_LFuelTank -3.3293,0,-32.0901 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank104_LOX_LH2_LFuelTank 0,3.3293,-32.0901 0,0,1 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank104_LOX_LH2_LFuelTank 0,-3.3293,-32.0901 0,0,1 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE FuelTank_LH2 0,0,-47.2502 0,0,1 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank101_LH2_LFuelTank 7.8103,0,-32.0901 0,0,1 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank101_LH2_LFuelTank -7.8103,0,-32.0901 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank101_LH2_LFuelTank 0,7.8103,-32.0901 0,0,1 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank101_LH2_LFuelTank 0,-7.8103,-32.0901 0,0,1 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT302_LargeTrussToSmallTruss_Short 0,0,-58.8272 0,0,-1 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BHVE_Sidemount_Rocket_Engine -3.2285,-7.8103,-31.3021 0,0,-1 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BHVE_Sidemount_Rocket_Engine 3.2285,7.8103,-31.3021 0,0,-1 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BM222_Cooling_System 0,0,-65.3962 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BM230_Nuclear_Reactor 0,0,-75.5483 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE Radiator_HiTemp_640 -2.737,0,-75.5483 -1,0,0 0,1,0 0
  MODULE Radiator_HiTemp_640 2.737,0,-75.5483 1,0,0 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE Radiator_HiTemp_640 0,-2.737,-75.5483 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE Radiator_HiTemp_640 0,2.737,-75.5483 0,1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BR200_Hi_Temp_Radiator 0,0,-90.6244 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BN301_Trussed_Node 0,0,-92.8244 0,1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT301_LargeTrussToSmallTruss 5.185,0,-92.8244 -1,0,0 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT301_LargeTrussToSmallTruss -5.185,0,-92.8244 1,0,0 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT301_LargeTrussToSmallTruss 0,5.185,-92.8244 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT301_LargeTrussToSmallTruss 0,-5.185,-92.8244 0,1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BNTR_GasCore_ClosedCycle_Nuclear_Engine 0,0,-101.903 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS2_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 8.732,0,-92.8244 1,0,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS2_ReactionControlSystem_Engine -8.732,0,-92.8244 -1,0,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS2_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,8.732,-92.8244 0,1,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS2_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,-8.732,-92.8244 0,-1,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\DADG_Docking_Adapter 0,0,5.076 0,0,1 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\DADG_Docking_Adapter 12.3521,0,-7.276 1,0,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\DADG_Docking_Adapter -12.3521,0,-7.276 -1,0,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BCP01_Cupola 0,13.5168,-7.276 -1,0,0 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BCP01_Cupola 0,-13.5168,-7.276 1,0,0 0,-1,0 0
  ATTPOINT IM 3.3266,-2.2405,15.5813 0,-1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM 3.3266,2.2405,15.5813 0,1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -3.332,2.2405,15.5813 0,1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -3.332,-2.2405,15.5813 0,-1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM 2.2378,3.3293,15.5813 1,0,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -2.2432,3.3293,15.5813 -1,0,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -2.2432,-3.3293,15.5813 -1,0,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM 2.2378,-3.3293,15.5813 1,0,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM 10.0481,0,15.5813 1,0,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM 7.8076,-2.2405,15.5813 0,-1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM 7.8076,2.2405,15.5813 0,1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -10.0535,0,15.5813 -1,0,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -7.813,2.2405,15.5813 0,1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -7.813,-2.2405,15.5813 0,-1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -0.0027,10.0508,15.5813 0,1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -2.2432,7.8103,15.5813 -1,0,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM -0.0027,-10.0508,15.5813 0,-1,0 0,0,1
  ATTPOINT IM 2.2378,-7.8103,15.5813 1,0,0 0,0,1
  DOCKPORT -0.0027,0,53.1474 0,0,1 1,0,0
  DOCKPORT 12.7494,0,40.3954 1,0,0 0,0,1
  DOCKPORT -12.7548,0,40.3954 -1,0,0 0,0,1
  EMPTYMASS 207250
  MASSCENTER 0.002651 0.000000 -47.671380
  PMI 223.26 223.91 122.71
  PROP LOX_LH2 79520 79520
  PROP LH2 108978 108978
  ENGINE 27 0 1
  ENGINE 28 0 1
  ENGINE 41 0 0
  RCSBLOCK 4 4000 4099 8.732,0,-21.8281 5 0,0,1 0,1,0 0,0,-1 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 4000 4099 -8.732,0,-21.8281 5 0,0,1 0,-1,0 0,0,-1 0,1,0 1,0,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 4000 4099 0,8.732,-21.8281 5 0,0,1 -1,0,0 0,0,-1 1,0,0 0,-1,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 4000 4099 0,-8.732,-21.8281 5 0,0,1 1,0,0 0,0,-1 -1,0,0 0,1,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 4000 4099 8.732,0,-92.8244 5 0,0,1 0,1,0 0,0,-1 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 4000 4099 -8.732,0,-92.8244 5 0,0,1 0,-1,0 0,0,-1 0,1,0 1,0,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 4000 4099 0,8.732,-92.8244 5 0,0,1 -1,0,0 0,0,-1 1,0,0 0,-1,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 4000 4099 0,-8.732,-92.8244 5 0,0,1 1,0,0 0,0,-1 -1,0,0 0,1,0 1
  ANIM 31 Radiator_HiTemp_640 1 1
  ANIM 32 Radiator_HiTemp_640 1 1
  ANIM 33 Radiator_HiTemp_640 1 1
  ANIM 34 Radiator_HiTemp_640 1 1
  ANIM 35 SBB41B\BR200_Hi_Temp_Radiator 1 1
  CONSUMABLES 1400 1400 16 6000 6000 16 1000 1000 8
  RADIATOR 31 369.769 0 1 0 30 29 28 27 5 4 3 2 1 -1 49 50
  RADIATOR 32 299.562 0 -1 0 30 29 28 27 5 4 3 2 1 -1 49 50
  RADIATOR 33 302.927 -1 0 0 30 29 28 27 5 4 3 2 1 -1 49 50
  RADIATOR 34 301.391 1 0 0 30 29 28 27 5 4 3 2 1 -1 49 50
  RADIATOR 35 276.381 1 0 0 41 -1 1 2 3 4 5 27 28 29 30
  HEATING 5 4 -1 30 29 3 1 41 28 27 49 50
  CREW 6 0
  ENERGY 5.94e+008

 

[PeterRoss]

Bug confirmed - all finalized vessels after being respawned from generated cfg's have their docking pors shifted towards. I'm afraid we can't do a thing about it right now except of maually fixing docking ports' coordinates in cfg files stored in Config\Vessels\IMS\finished vessels\ folder. These are the strings you want:

  DOCKPORT -0.0027,0,53.1474 0,0,1 1,0,0
  DOCKPORT 12.7494,0,40.3954 1,0,0 0,0,1
  DOCKPORT -12.7548,0,40.3954 -1,0,0 0,0,1

Replace it with these ones:

  DOCKPORT -0.0027,0,5.47602 0,0,1 1,0,0
  DOCKPORT 12.7494,0,-7.27598 1,0,0 0,0,1
  DOCKPORT -12.7548,0,-7.27598 -1,0,0 0,0,1

Docking ports' coordinates are being shifted by the exact value of MASSCENTER shift. Seems like a superfluous calculation here.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

I thought so, just by eyeballing it. OK, thanks for the fix.

 

[PeterRoss]

Here's semiofficial patch for IMS RC2 fixing nuclear and chemical engines' efficiency (needs testing) and adding two long trusses without side docking ports to SBB41B pack:

http://ge.tt/5Wr54WW/v/0?c

---------- Post added 27-01-13 at 00:02 ---------- Previous post was 26-01-13 at 10:44 ----------

Little bonus to the today's patch, the preliminary version of J-2XIM chemical rocket engine which is just J-2X with IMS compatibility. Never tested it, use at your own risk.

http://ge.tt/1TJh9YW/v/0?c

 

[jedidia]

Yay, workshop in Serbia, listening to bad gipsy bands all week. I just barely got away with my sanity... Now maybe I'll even get around to rig up that source code sometime soon.

NERVA should not need any external cooling at all, as well as any other NTR or chemical engine. I'll make correct configs in the nearest time.

They didn't need any external cooling, they only needed radiators. They did have their own cooling systems integrated.

Stock IMS modules are made by jedidia and... errr... sorry, can't remember his name I can remake it by myself if jedidia is agree.

Sure, go on!

 

[PeterRoss]

Yay, workshop in Serbia, listening to bad gipsy bands all week. I just barely got away with my sanity... Now maybe I'll even get around to rig up that source code sometime soon.

Glad to see you back :tiphat: and glad about your sanity - it's something we need badly to keep IMS running

They didn't need any external cooling, they only needed radiators. They did have their own cooling systems integrated.

I'll cite your words from IMS development group:

...they (NTRs) just shove more propellant through the engine (especially into the nozzle) to keep the temperature down and don't bother about the efficiency loss (about 6% lower Isp). It can only be assumed that a separate cooling system with radiators therefore would carry a mass penalty that are worse than the Isp loss.

The loss in Isp is already accounted for in all calculations, so we don't have to adjust that. Instead we have to push the efficiency to some 99.9% or so. There should still be heat buildup due to the engine doing all kind of funny stuff under those temperatures. They should be able to run for at least an hour, but not too much beyond that. They shouldn't have any cooling capacity.

The same principle is used to cool chemical engines, by the way.

So, do we need external radiators or not?:huh:

EDIT: You said they needED radiators, not that they need it. Right, I get it.

Sure, go on!

Will do.

 

[jedidia]

EDIT: You said they needED radiators, not that they need it. Right, I get it.

Yeah, that was meant IMS specific... I.E. they needed radiators in IMS, but they never needed additional cooling modules. AFAIK they shouldn't need either.

Well, actually, they should have a value defined for their cooling capacity in the configs (veeeery low, completely unusable) simply because otherwise they would be plugged into the MCS...

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Yeah, that was meant IMS specific... I.E. they needed radiators in IMS, but they never needed additional cooling modules. AFAIK they shouldn't need either.

Well, actually, they should have a value defined for their cooling capacity in the configs (veeeery low, completely unusable) simply because otherwise they would be plugged into the MCS...

So THAT'S why I kept gettin Cooling system alarms AFTER shutdown! :lol:

---------- Post added at 09:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 ----------

OK, shakedown of the J-2XIM powered IMSP1 design is under way. No issues so far, and I'm getting GREAT performance. Nice work, PeterRoss. Other than a slight mislabel in the engineering panel (sidemount should be replaced by inline, perhaps?) and no XR5 payload specs, it's ready for release. No bugs or overheats in almost 3 minutes of sustained firing.

---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 ----------

Ok, further update on the J-2XIM...
Just ran a full-duration TLI burn with it... wound up pulling .67 gees at ECO. for small, short-range spacecraft, the J-2 is the engine of choice in my book!

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------

Yet more testing, and a bug report!
After achieving TLI, I saved the scenario. After I came back, the fuel tank was fully filled! I left it with less than half the fuel aboard after the burn... What's up with that?

 

[PeterRoss]

Ok, further update on the J-2XIM...
Just ran a full-duration TLI burn with it... wound up pulling .67 gees at ECO. for small, short-range spacecraft, the J-2 is the engine of choice in my book!

No wonder they used J-2 to fly to the Moon

Yet more testing, and a bug report!
After achieving TLI, I saved the scenario. After I came back, the fuel tank was fully filled! I left it with less than half the fuel aboard after the burn... What's up with that?

Interesting. Do you have any saved scenario?

 

[MaverickSawyer]

No wonder they used J-2 to fly to the Moon

Yeah, it's a nice engine. Now I need to make some tweaks to the latest design, and I have a cis-lunar cargo hauler.

Interesting. Do you have any saved scenario?

Yeah, and I looked at it: 31% fuel remaining. I've posted the appropriate files in a .zip attachment. Heads up, though: the cooling system LOVES to overheat, especially in hydroponics...:facepalm: That's the first item on my list of fixes.

 

[PeterRoss]

Heads up, though: the cooling system LOVES to overheat, especially in hydroponics...:facepalm: That's the first item on my list of fixes.

At the moment my main issue with cooling system is its inadequate bahaviour on low orbit (rapid light/shade change environment) under time acceleration of at least x100.

Hydroponics are scheduled for total config's redesign by the way.

---------- Post added 31-01-13 at 00:01 ---------- Previous post was 30-01-13 at 17:05 ----------

OK, here's what happens when you save a scenario with IMS vessel spawned from 'finished vessels':

  CONSUMABLES 300030003000

Seems like it just forgets to insert space between numbers when saving. Fixing this restores the correct amount of consumables upon loading - but not after the next save.
As for propellant, seems like neither

  PROP LOX_LH2 76477.8

nor

 PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000 1:1.000000 2:1.000000 3:0.316600

strings aren't being read or processed when creating the vessel in the beginning of a session.

The only workaround for now is just not use finished vessel spawning and insert IMS vessels into scenario file manually.

 

[jedidia]

Hmmm, that finalisation function is even more severly undertested than I thought... :lol:

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Hmmm, that finalisation function is even more severly undertested than I thought... :lol:

I knew I should have ordered that pallet of Raid for Christmas, and just given it to the addon devs as gifts!
It's a minor annoyance right now. Maybe later I'll complain more, but right now, I'm just trying to see what works and what doesn't.

---------- Post added 01-31-13 at 15:20 ---------- Previous post was 01-30-13 at 17:28 ----------

Ok, further testing has been completed...
- I have found that the J-2XIM is FAR superior to the heavier NERVA engine. For the same fuel volume, I get a little more than twice as much delta V (2.5km/s for NERVA, 5.1km/s for J-2XIM).
- Aerobraking is too easy: stuff needs to overheat and break! During a test earlier today, I hit 48.55kPa, and was fully engulfed in plasma, but the only heat issue was because I had closed the radiators and shut down the cooling system for safety.
- What's the daily consumption rate of consumables per person? I'm trying to edit a container to hold consumables, but I can't get it so that everything runs out at the same time.

Otherwise, runs great. Fix that finalization bug, and I think we've got a winner here.