Flight Question How to actually fly your missions

[FSchieber]

Hi,

I am new to Orbiter with some years of Kerbal (Realism Overhaul mod), so i already know the basics of orbital mechanics, Hohmann tranfers, interplanetary transfers, Oberth effect and so on...

My main goal while using Orbiter is to simulate real missions and do my own -fictional- too. I recently downloaded a Falcon 9 addon. Found it amazing but miss the part where i actually fly it. I want to make the rocket Do something, and not only watch him flying to space and completing the missions alone.

So, what can i do to improve my experience while using Orbiter? I know this sim can be explored to reach amazing results, but i don't know how. If i need to program an autopilot, write some scripts, or control the rocket using a joystick... anything is good if i know what it is.

Thank you in advance and "fly safe"!

 

[Marijn]

It really depends on your own interests and imagination. I would suggest you download the XR fleet and start off by learning the basics like flying into a desired orbit and land again. Try to dock with the ISS or land on the moon. Then you can go to another planet like Mars.

Personally, at the moment, I like doing cargo flights with the XR5. Each time I figure out a more efficient way of doing certain manouvres, I repeat the scenario and load even more cargo instead of fuel. Just to figure out where the optimum is.

 

[Jeorbit]

Coming from KSP myself, I have the same difficulties adjusting as you do, for the same reasons. So far, I have been flying the XR fleet too, as suggested above. This is what I've found the most "hands-on" and fun.

Even though that ship's characteristics make it totally un-realistic (if you do care about that), it's a really fun way to discover Orbiter as you truly pilot the XR ship from horizontal take-off to orbit and then to rendez-vous & docking or to other bodies.

But like you do, I still struggle with the Orbiter's concept of missions that you can't actually fly. But realistically, most of those missions are not actually hand-flown either.

Here are some of the stuff I've picked-up so far that might be useful to you:

- Since in reality those missions are mostly not hand-flown but planned and programmed, it would be very cool to get into programming scripts that would control the sequence from launch. This would be very rewarding to actually spend some time planning and coding and then watch your mission unfold into space and automate every action while you closely monitor it from earth (better yet if you could actually program the telemetry you'd receive). I can't help you there, though. While I'm a programmer IRL, here I have not the faintest idea on how to control Orbiter from a scripting language like Lua. But there's probably some good tutorials out there, and I believe the default Atlantis Shuttle has an example script.

- There is the NASSP add-on for Orbiter 10 (new alpha version is being developed to support Orbiter 2016) that allows you to reproduce every steps of Apollo's missions just as if you were sitting in the actual modules (modeled up to the last switch).
It's also mostly automated but you'll have some flying to do, and will probably be very busy just like the real astronauts were (you can use the original NASA checklists with that mod, and I've read a guy re-enacted Apollo 11 with this mod and historical NASA checklists, and splashed down at the end with only a couple minutes off between simulated and real flights !). It's there : https://sourceforge.net/projects/nassp/
Here is a video showing a bit of the new version coming :

- As said above, cargo is a thing with Orbiter. Ships can carry it, deploy it in space or on the ground, etc. It opens up ideas of multi-flights missions were you deploy cargo and assemble it in EVA's (although as far as I know only Orbiter 10 is supported by the community's favorite EVA mod). I still don't know just how to assemble a bunch of stuff I put into orbit into a functional station (or base, if on the ground), but that's definitely possible and sounds really fun.

Hope this helps.

 

[rcraig42]

there is a good bit of hands on flying with the falcon 9/cargo dragon scenarios if you start with the launch scenario and don't skip to the approaching ISS scenario. And it is pretty challenging if you do it the way they do it IRL. Which is..... at some point as your lower orbit position approaches the ISS's orbit position do the 2 burn maneuver to raise your orbit to roughly circular around 365km Alt... then, and even trickier to figure out when to do it, is raise it from there to an orbit 2.5 kilometers lower than the ISS.

You have to line up the periapsis and apoapsis with those of the ISS so you only get 2 chances per orbit to start the maneuver, if you do it a half orbit early, you'll be a long long time catching up, if you start it a half orbit too late, you will pass the ISS before completing it.

Then as you get closer you increase your orbit to around 1.2 km below the ISS's orbit and start using the pursuit MFD as a reference to hand fly it to the R-Bar directly beneath the ISS. At that point you pretty much have to use the trim function to keep the dragon on station and change the distance to bring it up closer the ISS... then grab it with the Canadarm and pull it up to dock #4 on the Unty Module.

If you want you can skip the launch autopilot and hand fly it to orbit by simply locking in max thrust at the right time, you pretty much need the launch MFD in launch Compass mode to do the roll to the proper heading before pitching though.

ETA:you also need the pursuit MFD to remotely control the ISS in velocity mode Pitch 0 Yaw 0, and roll 0 to have the ISS in the proper RL attitude. Also on my system and someone else's the latest version of the MFD does not work to trim, but the version someone else uploaded in one of the last two pages of the pursuit MFD thread works fine. You also need to use the built in level horizon AP on the dragon and point the nose retrogade by hand before grabbing it with the canadarm

 

[boogabooga]

IMHO, the Kerbaliest of experiences in Orbiter is probably getting to know IMFD and/or TransX for interplanetary travel. There is a lot of "hands on," and also a lot of automation for more tedious things.

 

[Tex]

Definitely calculating flights, particularly slings, with TransX or IMFD. Finding them and fine tuning for fuel efficiency or desired flight times. Some of the best Orbiter sessions never even leave the ground.

 

[FSchieber]

It really depends on your own interests and imagination. I would suggest you download the XR fleet and start off by learning the basics like flying into a desired orbit and land again. Try to dock with the ISS or land on the moon. Then you can go to another planet like Mars.

Personally, at the moment, I like doing cargo flights with the XR5. Each time I figure out a more efficient way of doing certain manouvres, I repeat the scenario and load even more cargo instead of fuel. Just to figure out where the optimum is.

I'm downloading the XR5 right now. I was flying the Delta Glider to familiarize with Orbiter, so i think the XR5 will be great. I like the idea of cargo too.

Coming from KSP myself, I have the same difficulties adjusting as you do, for the same reasons. So far, I have been flying the XR fleet too, as suggested above. This is what I've found the most "hands-on" and fun.

Even though that ship's characteristics make it totally un-realistic (if you do care about that), it's a really fun way to discover Orbiter as you truly pilot the XR ship from horizontal take-off to orbit and then to rendez-vous & docking or to other bodies.

As mentioned above, i am downloading the XR5, the cargo idea seems very enjoyable.

- Since in reality those missions are mostly not hand-flown but planned and programmed, it would be very cool to get into programming scripts that would control the sequence from launch. This would be very rewarding to actually spend some time planning and coding and then watch your mission unfold into space and automate every action while you closely monitor it from earth (better yet if you could actually program the telemetry you'd receive). I can't help you there, though. While I'm a programmer IRL, here I have not the faintest idea on how to control Orbiter from a scripting language like Lua. But there's probably some good tutorials out there, and I believe the default Atlantis Shuttle has an example script.

- There is the NASSP add-on for Orbiter 10 (new alpha version is being developed to support Orbiter 2016) that allows you to reproduce every steps of Apollo's missions just as if you were sitting in the actual modules (modeled up to the last switch).
It's also mostly automated but you'll have some flying to do, and will probably be very busy just like the real astronauts were (you can use the original NASA checklists with that mod, and I've read a guy re-enacted Apollo 11 with this mod and historical NASA checklists, and splashed down at the end with only a couple minutes off between simulated and real flights !). It's there : https://sourceforge.net/projects/nassp/

- As said above, cargo is a thing with Orbiter. Ships can carry it, deploy it in space or on the ground, etc. It opens up ideas of multi-flights missions were you deploy cargo and assemble it in EVA's (although as far as I know only Orbiter 10 is supported by the community's favorite EVA mod). I still don't know just how to assemble a bunch of stuff I put into orbit into a functional station (or base, if on the ground), but that's definitely possible and sounds really fun.

I will read about scripts with Lua. I'm a enthusiast in C/C++ and Arduino/Wiring, let's see what can i take from Lua language. At the moment, i don't know nothing about it, but there always a way forward.

The NASSP add-on looks awesome too. As Apollo Project is by far my favorite project ever, would be great to learn more about the details and how the missions were flown.

Hope this helps.

Sure it did.

there is a good bit of hands on flying with the falcon 9/cargo dragon scenarios if you start with the launch scenario and don't skip to the approaching ISS scenario. And it is pretty challenging if you do it the way they do it IRL. Which is..... at some point as your lower orbit position approaches the ISS's orbit position do the 2 burn maneuver to raise your orbit to roughly circular around 365km Alt... then, and even trickier to figure out when to do it, is raise it from there to an orbit 2.5 kilometers lower than the ISS.

You have to line up the periapsis and apoapsis with those of the ISS so you only get 2 chances per orbit to start the maneuver, if you do it a half orbit early, you'll be a long long time catching up, if you start it a half orbit too late, you will pass the ISS before completing it.

Then as you get closer you increase your orbit to around 1.2 km below the ISS's orbit and start using the pursuit MFD as a reference to hand fly it to the R-Bar directly beneath the ISS. At that point you pretty much have to use the trim function to keep the dragon on station and change the distance to bring it up closer the ISS... then grab it with the Canadarm and pull it up to dock #4 on the Unty Module.

If you want you can skip the launch autopilot and hand fly it to orbit by simply locking in max thrust at the right time, you pretty much need the launch MFD in launch Compass mode to do the roll to the proper heading before pitching though.

ETA:you also need the pursuit MFD to remotely control the ISS in velocity mode Pitch 0 Yaw 0, and roll 0 to have the ISS in the proper RL attitude. Also on my system and someone else's the latest version of the MFD does not work to trim, but the version someone else uploaded in one of the last two pages of the pursuit MFD thread works fine. You also need to use the built in level horizon AP on the dragon and point the nose retrogade by hand before grabbing it with the canadarm

I already know the concepts of launching to rendezvous and docking with other body, but not in Orbiter. Although the concepts in Orbiter is the same that in real life and the ones i was using in Kerbal, i need to learn and familiarize with Orbiter's instruments in order to achieve it.

The Falcon 9 was just an example, although i will use it too in some moment of my journey. I wrote down your tips because i will sure use it later.

IMHO, the Kerbaliest of experiences in Orbiter is probably getting to know IMFD and/or TransX for interplanetary travel. There is a lot of "hands on," and also a lot of automation for more tedious things.

TransX/IMFD manuals added to the read list with high priority. Although i have read it, need to study the details, which is different from simply reading.

Definitely calculating flights, particularly slings, with TransX or IMFD. Finding them and fine tuning for fuel efficiency or desired flight times. Some of the best Orbiter sessions never even leave the ground.

It is another topic i like so much. Calculating to find the best way, tuning and repeating is very satisfactory to me. As mentioned above, will study the TransX/IMFD(and some other addons) manuals to achieve the best result possible.

Your Youtube tutorials are helping me a lot! Thank you.

As i like to test different things, all comments were very helpful. Thank you everybody! Right now i will use the XR5 to fly cargo missions and learn to the details about the addon's that will help me to achieve precise results.

 

[Jeorbit]

I'm a enthusiast in C/C++ and Arduino/Wiring

Then you're all set! Orbiter addons development is done in C++, and Lua is just a simpler layer above that. But with C++ you can do whatever you want with Orbiter.

 

[FSchieber]

Then you're all set! Orbiter addons development is done in C++, and Lua is just a simpler layer above that. But with C++ you can do whatever you want with Orbiter.

What is great! It will be a fun way to practice.

 

[rcraig42]

Look in your main orbiter folder for the subfolder OrbiterSDK/Doc, for some reference materials, and check the developers and tutorials subforums for more specific help, especially in getting Visual Studio Express (now community, also full Visual Studio if you have or can afford it) set up to work properly. Unfortunately other compilers will not work.

 

[boogabooga]

TransX/IMFD manuals added to the read list with high priority. Although i have read it, need to study the details, which is different from simply reading.

The Kerbal node system is basically TransX. You just do it in an MFD instead of external view. But concept is the same in that you vary three velocity components individually and see what happens to your trajectory in a guess-and-check fashion.

 

[FSchieber]

Look in your main orbiter folder for the subfolder OrbiterSDK/Doc, for some reference materials, and check the developers and tutorials subforums for more specific help, especially in getting Visual Studio Express (now community, also full Visual Studio if you have or can afford it) set up to work properly. Unfortunately other compilers will not work.

I will check the SDK. The wiki seems a good place too.

The Kerbal node system is basically TransX. You just do it in an MFD instead of external view. But concept is the same in that you vary three velocity components individually and see what happens to your trajectory in a guess-and-check fashion.

Nice to know. Found today that Orbiter 2010 has an addon similar to the 3D map from Kerbal, but none for 2016 i guess.