Harvard scientist Avi Loeb more sure than ever we were visited by alien spacecraft

[cannon_gray]

He's become increasingly convinced a space object many other astronomers assume is just a peculiar space rock is really a piece of alien technology sent in our direction by some sort of extraterrestrial civilization. Back in 2017, astronomers spotted a strange object flying away from Earth with an unusual shape, tumbling end over end and accelerating as it sped out of the solar system. Even more remarkable was that it appeared to originate from beyond our solar system and was just passing through -- the first object we'd ever detected from outside our corner of the cosmos. This first-ever interstellar object was nicknamed 'Oumuamua, a Hawaiian word that roughly translates to "scout,"

 

[jedidia]

Oumuamuas behaviour is not extraordinary. It is observed all the time in commets, where outgassing can lead to velocity- and trajectory changes. Nobody had expected that from Oumuamua, but once it happened it wasn't too astonishing in hindsight. On its own, it is very insufficient evidence of intelligence.

Even more remarkable was that it appeared to originate from beyond our solar system and was just passing through -- the first object we'd ever detected from outside our corner of the cosmos.

And while that was remarkable, it was also perfectly expected. We knew that interstellar rubble was entering and passing through our system all the time (speaking in a geological timeframe), it was just the first time we had the capability to see it. Something coming from interstellar space proves nothing, it simply means that it isn't downright impossible.

 

[MaxBuzz]

J002E3 no less mysterious object and one of the contenders for the title of UFO (until it became part of Saturn-5)

 

[Urwumpe]

Yes, that is the point: While it was a very strange object, there was no evidence at all, that it was artificial. Scientifically, this means that we have to stick to what we really know for sure and this is only the evidence that confirms its natural. The only really weird aspect of it is its highly elongated shape, but even that can still be explained without aliens building it, so they are not needed.

OR: If you want to speak in favor of Loeb there, you can still say, if it was an artificial object by an extrasolar intelligence, something happened to it that made it appear like an unusual, but still natural object, in terms of flight dynamics and surface composition. Maybe it was a spacecraft wreck, that passively drifted through space and collected lots of dust and ice on its surface. For knowing for sure, we would have to catch it.

 

[n72.75]

Even if alien spacecraft regularly fly through our solar system, it's still vastly more likely that this was just a rock.

 

[N_Molson]

OR: If you want to speak in favor of Loeb there, you can still say, if it was an artificial object by an extrasolar intelligence, something happened to it that made it appear like an unusual, but still natural object, in terms of flight dynamics and surface composition. Maybe it was a spacecraft wreck, that passively drifted through space and collected lots of dust and ice on its surface. For knowing for sure, we would have to catch it.

Exactly. That's what we call "finalism" in philosophy, and was the only way to think before the enlightment and the emergence of scientific rationalism. People want something to be, so they think things in a way they can fit their scheme. I think that it would somewhat comforting to know we are not alone in the universe, so the first rock that goes through our solar system has to be a proof of those wanted extraterrestrial beings. I'm feeling better if I know there is a man above so any physical event I can witness will be a proof of the existence of God. That's Fate, it had to happen. And of course sometimes, we think we are rational, but in fact we're thinking in a finalist way. As far as we know things happen without "a reason", and hell we don't like that ! A true man of science will record all the data he can about that asteroid, and make that data publicly available so that his colleagues or successors will be able to make comparisons with the next asteroid, and hoping to have one day enough data to elaborate theories about those asteroids whereabouts, the way they formed and so on... First the facts, a lot of facts, then the theory. Very little is known about this asteroid, we have to admit we simply don't have enough data to make such claims.

 

[WolfAngriff]

Hello here ! A very ineresting topic, and a very good one to practice my english. The question could be : do i know ? or do i believe ? And, farther, how do i know what i know ? Answering honestly to this last question is not that easy for anyone. Our brain needs to find something logical in all its environement, and if it doesn't find it, then the situation becomes uncomfortable. So, in somes cases, our brain creates something that seems acceptable, even if its not based on any reality, any real knowledge. We can say that our brain lies to our consciousness. Knowing we could be all alone in the Universe is not comfortable. Believing we're not is way more easy. Ludwig Wittgenstein's last book is a very good way to think about all of this.

 

[Urwumpe]

I would be careful with Wittgenstein: Wittgensteins philosophy is about the difference between language and philosophy. Especially the final book of him is pretty much about how a grammatically valid sentence in a language models a doubt, that in reality, makes no sense at all, because the doubt itself can not exist without certainties.

That pretty much ruins a lot of theoretical science, especially theoretical physics: Just because your language permits you to formulate a doubt about something, that does not mean that your doubt serves any real purpose beyond playing with the language.

Wittgenstein is great for understanding software requirements, because his philosophy is a good filter between language and model. Just because you can formulate it in a sentence, it must not be a valid model.

 

[richfororbit]

A bit old this topic, hmm, I doubt it was something from somewhere else, it would seem that those who know much more on the subject probably have it correct, just thinking it was something from somewhere else kind of ignores the reality of the distances.

Nobody knows of the Earth bound resources that exist elsehwere in the galaxy or even beyond, sure the Universe is large, just as the galaxy we are in quite large. But the nearest constellation of the star Gliese 445 from Earth is seventeen light years, that is a long away, just as the nearest star is four light years away, that is a long way. Just like the outer planets of the solar system, just getting there alone takes many years.

So. the object is seen as an example like Voyager, Voyager would travel through the galaxy for centuries, there is no certainty of that. It could crash into something beyond the oort cloud. Who is to say that couldn't happen?

 

[DrJonB]

The whole premise that an object which we can observe moving in accordance with Newtonian dynamics, is evidence of extra terrestrial intelligence, is flawed in my view. Given the distances involved, an alien 'intelligence' so advanced that, having detected Earth in the first place, and wishing to take a closer look, would visit here in a 'spaceship' is fanciful in the extreme. More likely they would slip between universes, take a look, and then slip back, having concluded there is nothing to see here. We would be none the wiser.

 

[richfororbit]

Buzz Aldrin said in an interview years back, almost ten years I think now, said that a life that could travel would need to do so in search of somewhere new to live, that is obviously a view of being human. Searching for a resourceful place.

Seti and Meti were culturally curious organisations but they are or were a waste of time.

The star gliese 445 is seventeen years away by light, to the solar system, and back. So if that amount of time is light traveling, a signal from the Earth to there is how long, seventeen years. So thirty seven year communication time.

If Voyager had a working power source, it could keep transmitting data, for another few more decades, but three centuries? Obviously not. What about six centuries, or nine, two thousand years. If we use the example of it going to the nearest star, which at the speed, would be still many thousands of years, could the probe not increase speed beyond the oort cloud? Natural forces. No power or engine.