Hardest thing in Orbiter
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Zatnikitelman
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For me, it's IMFD. Since there are no tutorials for the current version and the interface is completely unintuitive, I am left stumbling in the dark, using TransX to plot trajectories that can be optimized completely with IMFD.
I do remember the ol' "this is real hard, now it's easy, now that looks hard, now it's easy" days. Most things after I got going on one (orbit insertion), took off in less than a week for all the others. But some things just keep kicking my 6!
I do remember the ol' "this is real hard, now it's easy, now that looks hard, now it's easy" days. Most things after I got going on one (orbit insertion), took off in less than a week for all the others. But some things just keep kicking my 6!
Belisarius
Obsessed with reality. Why?
For me it is without doubt deorbiting and arriving at a particular target site with the right energy, not overshooting nor stalling before I arrive. Add that to all the other little inconveniences of deorbit - remembering to button up, to dump prop, not to burn up and die - and it makes the biggest headache for me.
jgrillo2002
Conservative Pioneer
Mine would be working on TransX because you dont know when you are supposed to burn and what direction. another hard thing IMHO is getting to a lagrange point but now its easy. just use the delta V compute on IMFD and keep an eye on the map computer on IMFD on the other side until you see a curve going around a half orbit. if you get there correctly and keep doing MCC, you will end up with a oval shape
Piet Barber
New member
I don't like to focus so much on what's hard; but instead some of the things that have been rewarding.
Rendezvous -- no problem at all with the Rendezvous MFD. Sync up your orbits with your target with the Sync MFD. Once you are close, just set your target in Rendezvous, hit autopilot, let it figure out its stuff.
Reentry -- Used to have lots of problems with this; I still can't get the original Deltaglider to re-enter without all sorts of problems. (I can't get the nose high enough). Doing this in DG3 or DGIV is more challenging because of the damage from overheating. I've gotten this down to a science now so that I can re-enter with the Aerobrake MFD and do a full re-entry with no main engine burns at all. The real challenge is to do it with the hull never getting hotter than... say 500 degrees C.
TransAtlantic -- With the XR5 and the scramjets, I try to see the shortest time I can get from Cape Canaveral to landing on Ascension Wideawake. I can do it in 45 minutes; I could probably shave that down another 10 minutes if I was aggressive in the re-entry portion. We should set up a racing thread to see who can do it in the shortest amount of time with a particular class of vessel.
Space Elevator Fling-Shot -- Some of the most rewarding flights I have done was on Kulch's Space Elevator. Ride the elevator up past Geo, and at the right time: let go! If you do it right you can do a free flight to the moon. There are no MFDs to calculate the orbital trajectory for any point on the space elevator except for Geostationary and on the planet. So you have to TLAR it. (That Looks About Right). Having the planetarium mode on helps too. There are only two times of the month when you can do this insertion.
Interplanetary -- Man I still have a hard time with this. Mostly cause there is only once in a while when Earth and Mars's orbits have close periapsis and apoapsis. I think it would be very rewarding to use the moon to do a slingshot on the way to Mars. Also an interesting flight would be the Space Elevator Fling-Shot at the end asteroid station to get to Mars. It's not quite enough inertia to get you all the way there, but it certainly would be an interesting calculation to get there.
Free Return -- Sometimes I like to go to past the moon just so that I can see it, not do an annoying landing (there's not much to see but rocks anyway!) and just head back to Earth
Atmospheric Braking Return: -- Set up a Free Return from Moon, direct re-entry, no main engine burns. Do it in a craft like the DGIV that is very sensitive to heat. Use the atmosphere to burn off all that speed (pun intended). Try not to turn your nice paintjob on your DGIV into a crispy critter. You have to take 2 or three hits to the atmosphere to slow down enough to re-enter, and the first re-entry hit is only about 2 minutes of searing scorching heat. Atmospheric Braking MFD is a must. You get extra points if you can just aerodynamic braking and steering to get to Cape Canaveral. Since the Moon's orbit is roughly the same inclination as is Cape Canaveral's elevation, no problem. Landing at Ascension Island is maybe even more easy, as its near the equator and you get two chances per day instead of just one.
Hard?
I still have a hard time figuring out how to get back from a launch on the moon back to Earth.
Grrr. I still have a hard time going to Mars. I think my biggest problem is waiting around. I have a nice ship on the launch pad, and ... darnit... Now I have to wait another 18 months for a launch window. (Isn't it just easier to go to the Scenario editor?)
IMFD -- Maybe one day I will figure out IMFD -- I have actually printed out the instructions. The problem is lots of the tutorials are of older versions, and I am not smart enough to figure out where the differences are.
Figuring out bugs -- little annoying ones that have to do with all the different add-ons has been more challenging than an interplanetary insertion. (sigh) Sometimes all the bug tracking and fixing is too much like a day at work, and I have to go do a little blasting in C&C or BF2142 to escape the frustration. At least at work I deal with real operating systems like Linux that have way better tools for managing this sort of stuff. (Maybe my windows foo is just too weak).
Rendezvous -- no problem at all with the Rendezvous MFD. Sync up your orbits with your target with the Sync MFD. Once you are close, just set your target in Rendezvous, hit autopilot, let it figure out its stuff.
Reentry -- Used to have lots of problems with this; I still can't get the original Deltaglider to re-enter without all sorts of problems. (I can't get the nose high enough). Doing this in DG3 or DGIV is more challenging because of the damage from overheating. I've gotten this down to a science now so that I can re-enter with the Aerobrake MFD and do a full re-entry with no main engine burns at all. The real challenge is to do it with the hull never getting hotter than... say 500 degrees C.
TransAtlantic -- With the XR5 and the scramjets, I try to see the shortest time I can get from Cape Canaveral to landing on Ascension Wideawake. I can do it in 45 minutes; I could probably shave that down another 10 minutes if I was aggressive in the re-entry portion. We should set up a racing thread to see who can do it in the shortest amount of time with a particular class of vessel.
Space Elevator Fling-Shot -- Some of the most rewarding flights I have done was on Kulch's Space Elevator. Ride the elevator up past Geo, and at the right time: let go! If you do it right you can do a free flight to the moon. There are no MFDs to calculate the orbital trajectory for any point on the space elevator except for Geostationary and on the planet. So you have to TLAR it. (That Looks About Right). Having the planetarium mode on helps too. There are only two times of the month when you can do this insertion.
Interplanetary -- Man I still have a hard time with this. Mostly cause there is only once in a while when Earth and Mars's orbits have close periapsis and apoapsis. I think it would be very rewarding to use the moon to do a slingshot on the way to Mars. Also an interesting flight would be the Space Elevator Fling-Shot at the end asteroid station to get to Mars. It's not quite enough inertia to get you all the way there, but it certainly would be an interesting calculation to get there.
Free Return -- Sometimes I like to go to past the moon just so that I can see it, not do an annoying landing (there's not much to see but rocks anyway!) and just head back to Earth
Atmospheric Braking Return: -- Set up a Free Return from Moon, direct re-entry, no main engine burns. Do it in a craft like the DGIV that is very sensitive to heat. Use the atmosphere to burn off all that speed (pun intended). Try not to turn your nice paintjob on your DGIV into a crispy critter. You have to take 2 or three hits to the atmosphere to slow down enough to re-enter, and the first re-entry hit is only about 2 minutes of searing scorching heat. Atmospheric Braking MFD is a must. You get extra points if you can just aerodynamic braking and steering to get to Cape Canaveral. Since the Moon's orbit is roughly the same inclination as is Cape Canaveral's elevation, no problem. Landing at Ascension Island is maybe even more easy, as its near the equator and you get two chances per day instead of just one.
Hard?
I still have a hard time figuring out how to get back from a launch on the moon back to Earth.
Grrr. I still have a hard time going to Mars. I think my biggest problem is waiting around. I have a nice ship on the launch pad, and ... darnit... Now I have to wait another 18 months for a launch window. (Isn't it just easier to go to the Scenario editor?)
IMFD -- Maybe one day I will figure out IMFD -- I have actually printed out the instructions. The problem is lots of the tutorials are of older versions, and I am not smart enough to figure out where the differences are.
Figuring out bugs -- little annoying ones that have to do with all the different add-ons has been more challenging than an interplanetary insertion. (sigh) Sometimes all the bug tracking and fixing is too much like a day at work, and I have to go do a little blasting in C&C or BF2142 to escape the frustration. At least at work I deal with real operating systems like Linux that have way better tools for managing this sort of stuff. (Maybe my windows foo is just too weak).
Pilot7893
Epik spaec mishun!
I know how to use IMFD for TLI down-pat, but which tool in IMFD do I use for interplanetry?
C3PO
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Personally I've got the most trouble rendezvous'ing(?) with an object that's on a hyperbolic trajectory.:hmm:
BUT! Reading through the various forums, I guess the hardest part of Orbiter is reading the manual.:dry:
BUT! Reading through the various forums, I guess the hardest part of Orbiter is reading the manual.:dry:
Still the most difficult for me is cargo delivery. Take a fully loaded Shuttle A from the surface of Mars, intercept Earth, enter the atmosphere low enough to drop the cargo then get out and back to Mars without refueling. I'm at the point where I can deliver the cargo without it skipping off the atmosphere most of the time, but doing it all efficiently enough to get back to Mars is difficult for me.
Piet Barber
New member
Formation Flight
Here's a hard one: Formation flight in Atmospheric flight.
Just this evening, I hooked up a Kulch Universal Arm to my DGIV. I had another DGIV take-off and head off on autopilot from Ascension Island. I caught up with the Universal-Armed DGIV in chase. It took me a little while to get caught up and close enough to grapple the other DGIV in flight. (and a very smooth hand, too).
Once grappled, I turned off the autopilot on the front ship, and did all the flying from the rear DGIV. I turned around and landed back at Ascension Island. I had to make sure that the touchdown was as smooth as possible as I was certainly above maximum landing mass.
I used up so much runway with my smooth landing that I was starting to run out of runway ahead of me. Full reverse thrusters, full airbrakes; No good. I splashed in the ocean off the end of the runway. (As best a splash as you can do in Orbiter, anyway. )
In case you're curious, That DGIV performs terribly with twice the mass. I've also found that doing this with the DG-XR1 ends up in disastrous results, as the Center of Gravity on the DG-XR1 makes both craft spin out of control.
Here's a hard one: Formation flight in Atmospheric flight.
Just this evening, I hooked up a Kulch Universal Arm to my DGIV. I had another DGIV take-off and head off on autopilot from Ascension Island. I caught up with the Universal-Armed DGIV in chase. It took me a little while to get caught up and close enough to grapple the other DGIV in flight. (and a very smooth hand, too).
Once grappled, I turned off the autopilot on the front ship, and did all the flying from the rear DGIV. I turned around and landed back at Ascension Island. I had to make sure that the touchdown was as smooth as possible as I was certainly above maximum landing mass.
I used up so much runway with my smooth landing that I was starting to run out of runway ahead of me. Full reverse thrusters, full airbrakes; No good. I splashed in the ocean off the end of the runway. (As best a splash as you can do in Orbiter, anyway. )
In case you're curious, That DGIV performs terribly with twice the mass. I've also found that doing this with the DG-XR1 ends up in disastrous results, as the Center of Gravity on the DG-XR1 makes both craft spin out of control.
Attachments
I've done that many times, do a direct reentry from the moon with a DGIV and land at KSC. I even have it recorded as a playback.
That's not to Orbiter-specific :- )
And speaking of challenges: Have anyone tried orbital formation flight?
*___*
__*
*___*
Placing 5 crafts on the same altitude in above configuration and trying to keep relative position for at least one orbit, could be interesting.
In the beginning for me it was achieving a stable orbit, and then change that orbit to wherever I wanted to go, and this took about a week to learn. Then it was learning how to align, sync, approach, and dock to a space station, which took me 1 week to learn. Then it took me 2 weeks to learn how to successfully make it to the moon, and land at Brighton Beach. It took me 1 month to learn how to return back to Earth. It took 3 days to learn how to deorbit, and reenter the Earth's atmosphere. It took me 2 months to learn how to successfully fly interplanetary flights.
So my answer is interplanetary flights were the hardest to learn.
So my answer is interplanetary flights were the hardest to learn.
I use TransX and IMFD, but in IMFD if you want to do an interplanetary flight Here's how:
Depending on where you are starting 1st perform an Orbit Eject out of the main body's gravitational field of influence that you are orbiting. Once thats complete and you get the message "Have a nice voyage!" Go to the Course computer and set of a Planet Intercept. Use the IMFD's Map and Course computer MFDs to do this, also make sure they are linked. Set it up and hit Auto Burn (AB) You may also have to do 1 or 2 course corrections along the way, but if done right you should end up in a nice position to retrograde into a nice orbit around the chosen body you were targeting.
I did just this yesterday going from Earth to Mars with almost laughable ease.
V8Li
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rcb19136
New member
Hello Everyone,
I just wanted to take a sec to say Hi and introduce myself. My name is Rich and I'm a Newbie to Orbiter. Been like a week now for me. I've been into simulators since my first computer. (TI-99) My aircraft was just a cross on the screen.
But anyway. I was looking for a Shuttle for FS-X. I needed more of a challenge. And I stumbled upon Orbiter. I found what I was looking for. My god did I ever!!!!
Which brings me to the Hardest thing to do with Orbiter. TURN IT OFF!!!!! LOL
I'm hooked. This is by far the coolest simulator I've tried yet. So far I've been able to take off and establish an orbit. Align and Sync with another orbit. Dock to the ISS then transfer to Mir. Then Reentry and land. I was a half a continent away. But hey. You gotta start somewhere, right? Tonight I'm gonna follow threw the Online Book "Go Play in Space" Looks like I'll be able to hone some of my skills.
Anyway. I just wanted to say Hi. And if anyone has any suggestions for me, like tutorials, ships, Add-ons or whatever. I'm all ears. In the mean time. Maybe we'll cross orbits!
Rich
I just wanted to take a sec to say Hi and introduce myself. My name is Rich and I'm a Newbie to Orbiter. Been like a week now for me. I've been into simulators since my first computer. (TI-99) My aircraft was just a cross on the screen.
But anyway. I was looking for a Shuttle for FS-X. I needed more of a challenge. And I stumbled upon Orbiter. I found what I was looking for. My god did I ever!!!!
Which brings me to the Hardest thing to do with Orbiter. TURN IT OFF!!!!! LOL
I'm hooked. This is by far the coolest simulator I've tried yet. So far I've been able to take off and establish an orbit. Align and Sync with another orbit. Dock to the ISS then transfer to Mir. Then Reentry and land. I was a half a continent away. But hey. You gotta start somewhere, right? Tonight I'm gonna follow threw the Online Book "Go Play in Space" Looks like I'll be able to hone some of my skills.
Anyway. I just wanted to say Hi. And if anyone has any suggestions for me, like tutorials, ships, Add-ons or whatever. I'm all ears. In the mean time. Maybe we'll cross orbits!
Rich
Pilot7893
Epik spaec mishun!
Thanks! I finally feel worthy of this mighty game now that I can go to Venus without Scenario editorI use TransX and IMFD, but in IMFD if you want to do an interplanetary flight Here's how:
Depending on where you are starting 1st perform an Orbit Eject out of the main body's gravitational field of influence that you are orbiting. Once thats complete and you get the message "Have a nice voyage!" Go to the Course computer and set of a Planet Intercept. Use the IMFD's Map and Course computer MFDs to do this, also make sure they are linked. Set it up and hit Auto Burn (AB) You may also have to do 1 or 2 course corrections along the way, but if done right you should end up in a nice position to retrograde into a nice orbit around the chosen body you were targeting.
I did just this yesterday going from Earth to Mars with almost laughable ease.
spaceranger
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When I first encountered Orbiter, it reinvigorated a long, long dormant interest in math. Orbiter made math fun. The first time I got to LEO was a such a visceral memory, all number of concepts suddenly clicked into place (inertia, orbital velocity, normals, DeltaV, etc. all kinda went CLICKITY-CLICK! together in my head, felt great!).
Getting to the moon (safely!) was a tremendous challenge, so was docking with the ISS until I actually did it and then more concepts started square dancing together and I was off to Mars ..
Wonderful experiences!
Cheers
Getting to the moon (safely!) was a tremendous challenge, so was docking with the ISS until I actually did it and then more concepts started square dancing together and I was off to Mars ..
Wonderful experiences!
Cheers
Andy44
owner: Oil Creek Astronautix
Welcome, and say goodbye to your social life and proper nutritional and sleeping habits for a long time!
I would suggest looking for David413's Shuttle fleet add-ons if you don't already have them. There is a Space Shuttle Ultra add-on in the works around here, but I haven't been keeping up to speed on it. If your interest is in Apollo I suggest AMSO.
tblaxland
O-F Administrator
Go Play in Space is a great place to start.
You would also be well served to have a look at the Recommended Addons page. There should be enough there to keep you going for a while
Welcome to Orbiter!
rcb19136
New member
Thanks for your replies. The Recommended Addons Page is just what I was looking for. That should keep me busy for sometime. The next thing I wanna try is to build a space station in Orbit. One section at a time. I need to find some documentation on this. I would guess when you set the first section you can assign it a transponder # so you can find it again? Thats the part I'm not sure about. How to set the first section and get Orbiter to see it as a station. I saw the ADDON "Space Station Building Blocks" Do these sections fit in the Shuttle? Or do I need to use something else?
My plan is to build a base in orbit around earth. Once I figure that out and accomplished the task. I would like to to the same with other planets.
Well back to Orbiter. I found a 20 min video tutorial on IMFD v5. I started messing with it at like 5 this morning. But I couldn't keep my eyes open any longer. lol
I'm off to Mars!
Rich
My plan is to build a base in orbit around earth. Once I figure that out and accomplished the task. I would like to to the same with other planets.
Well back to Orbiter. I found a 20 min video tutorial on IMFD v5. I started messing with it at like 5 this morning. But I couldn't keep my eyes open any longer. lol
I'm off to Mars!
Rich
