IMFD Course TEj vs. Orbit Eject TEj

Zatnikitelman

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I was messing with IMFD today (when I should have been doing my paper :p) plotting a course to Jupiter. I didn't have enough time to eject before History, but after reviewing what I did and looking at the "Home Direct" tutorial, I have a question. When I set the course TEj, then set the Orbit Eject TEj, aren't they supposed to be the same? In Home Direct, the Orbit Eject TEj is changed to find a lower Dv solution. I thought the TEj set in the course was the time the ship is supposed to eject from the source which would be changed when you changed in the Orbit Eject display.
Thanks for any info,
Zat
 

tblaxland

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When I set the course TEj, then set the Orbit Eject TEj, aren't they supposed to be the same? In Home Direct, the Orbit Eject TEj is changed to find a lower Dv solution. I thought the TEj set in the course was the time the ship is supposed to eject from the source which would be changed when you changed in the Orbit Eject display.
Thanks for any info,
Zat
The two eject times are approximately independent. As far as I understand, IMFD uses patched conic approximations in the course and eject programs (Are you familiar with TransX? The eject and course programs, when used together, are like the first two stages of a TransX plan). So when setting up a planetary trajectory, the Course programs asks: what delta-v would I need to give Earth to reach Jupiter and when? You optimise that trajectory and then Orbit-Eject program then asks, for the vessel in Earth orbit, what delta-v do I need to get on the trajectory in the Course program and when? For a typical Earth parking orbit, the Earth doesn't move very far over the period of a couple of orbits so as long as the TEj(Course) is within a few orbit periods of TEj(Orbit-Eject) you should be OK. For increased accuracy, you can set TEj(Course) to be equal to TEj(Orbit-Eject) once you have optimised TEj(Orbit-Eject) but I find that any gain in accuracy is lost in the noise of the inaccuracies of the patched conic model. HTH.
 

Zatnikitelman

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Thanks for the info, I sort of think I get it, but I'm a bit confused by this line:
For increased accuracy, you can set TEj(Course) to be equal to TEj(Orbit-Eject) once you have optimised TEj(Orbit-Eject)
It sounds like you set A to equal B once you've optimized B. Does that mean I set the number in the course program again? Or leave it alone?

Also, what's about the minimum Dv you can get ejecting from the moon in a 24hr trajectory back to Earth with a lunar inclination of 90 degrees? So far I get 7.597 km/s.
Thanks!
 

tblaxland

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Thanks for the info, I sort of think I get it, but I'm a bit confused by this line:

It sounds like you set A to equal B once you've optimized B. Does that mean I set the number in the course program again? Or leave it alone?
Your choice. I generally find it is OK to leave it alone, but you can do it like this: optimise A -> optimise B -> set A=B -> optimise B -> set A=B -> optimise B ... and so on. One or two iterations would be more than enough.

Also, what's about the minimum Dv you can get ejecting from the moon in a 24hr trajectory back to Earth with a lunar inclination of 90 degrees? So far I get 7.597 km/s.
Dunno - I've never tried coming back that fast!
 

tblaxland

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Well, I just tried it. Attached is a setup showing 2,983 m/s ejection burn. Note the (nearly) matching TEj's. I'm not sure what you are doing to get such a high value. Perhaps your Earth arrival inclination is too high?
 

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Zatnikitelman

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Thanks for all the help, but I'm still confuzzled!
I've tried setting up several trajectories like the ones above, but orbit-eject doesn't seem to want to update itself with planet approach (with the MFDs linked). Here's the process I use, maybe it's just a flaw in my strategy:

1. Open and link IMFD, planet approach on left, orbit-eject on right.
2. Set 300k PeA, 29 inclination, 86400 PeT in P-A
3. Change realtime and higher orbit to off-axis and course respectively in O-E
4. Optimize TEj in P-A for lowest Dv
5. Set O-E TEj to P-A TEj
6. Tweak O-E TEj until lower Dv solution**
7. Hit AB and cruise home (don't have problem with P-A after eject so I'm stopping here)

**This seems to be the sticking point. I'll click the + and - buttons with TEj highlighted in O-E on various ADj settings, but the HTO and current orbit never align so every time, I end up with a way off-orbit burn instead of being within a few degrees of Prograde so I end up wasting a lot of fuel. It's almost like the O-E program doesn't want to change the orientation of the HTO for some reason.
Also on a slightly unrelated issue, I've noticed that with 10x time warp, the auto-burn is burning at 1x, but fuel and orbit ar changing at 10x.

Thanks for any help,
Zat
 

jarmonik

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Ok, here you go. This is a procedure if you start a mission from orbit that's not properly aligned.

4. Increase TEj from P-A until EIn in O-E is zero or minimum. TEj in O-E doesn't matter at this point neither does EIn in P-A

5. Wait until TEj in P-A is zero. This may take several days. The configuration in the programs will go crazy during waiting but don't worry about it. (This step will take you in proper launch window.)

6. Reset PeT to 86400 in P-A, Leave TEj to zero.

7. Tweak TEj from O-E to find minimum dV

8. Copy TEj from O-E to P-A and repeat step 7. (This step is not important.)

9. Hit Autoburn
 

Zatnikitelman

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Ok, I've followed the procedure you've laid out and it works well until step 7. I'm moving the O-E TEj upwards and watching the Dv, at around 4k seconds or so, the Dv number stops moving and stays at one number no matter how far forward I move it, or how far I back it up it doesn't change at all. My first thought is that this is somehow the minimum Dv, but backing up the TEj should change that right? Also, I've noticed that IMFD seems to arbitrarily jump in Orbit Eject from Off-Axis to Realtime guidance. (yes, I have 5.1m)
 

jarmonik

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Ok, I've followed the procedure you've laid out and it works well until step 7. I'm moving the O-E TEj upwards and watching the Dv, at around 4k seconds or so, the Dv number stops moving and stays at one number no matter how far forward I move it
There is nothing you can do for the dV in P-A. But the dV in O-E should change when increasing TEj. I got a minimum of 2.8k in test scenario. Could you post a screen shot from the MFDs after step 6 or 7

Also, I've noticed that IMFD seems to arbitrarily jump in Orbit Eject from Off-Axis to Realtime guidance.
In some extreme cases IMFD can't compute Off-Axis guidance solution and in that case it will switch bact to Realtime.
 

Zatnikitelman

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Well, IMFD sort of made a liar out of me. I set up another eject again, this time I got an eject Dv of 2.something km/s right off (tweaking O-E TEj only increased Dv) and it would have worked, except the burn pointed me into the moon so while the orbit technically would have ejected, I was still counting down to PEA which was under the moon's surface. I'll keep trying to recreate the problem and see if I can't get a screenshot this time.
 

Tommy

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Sorry for the delay on replying to this, I haven't had time to go online the last few days.

In the case of "Home Direct" we need to adjust O-E's TEj because we changed our orbit (the circularisation burn) after we set up our plan in P-A, thus changing the time when we reach the ejection point. While this step isn't crucial for a lunar return, it does increase the fuel efficiency.

When making an Orbit Escape burn (which is also the transfer burn) it is most efficient if the burn vector is aligned with the prograde velocity vector. This is the case when your burn is centered around the point where the planned course is tangent to the current orbit (assuming the plane is aligned). Burning before that point means some thrust is used to redirect the ship inward of it's current orbit, burning after means some some of the thrust is used to redirect the ship outward. Changing directions is very expensive in terms of delta-v, and inward/outward changes are as fuel expensive as plane changes. We want as much of the dV as possible applied to changing the amount of our velocity, not the direction.

Let's consider our flight to have three separate "stages"; Launch, Eject, and Transfer. As usual in spaceflight, it's best to work "backwards" so we'll consider the Transfer stage first.

For a moon-earth transfer, the window is pretty much open ended. The dV needed for the transfer if made today is about the same as it will be tomorrow, or next week, or even next month, so we don't need to worry about when we actually make the transfer. There will be slight variations in the required dV since the moon's orbit isn't perfectly circular and stable, but the difference will be considerably less than 100 m/s, and only an issue in a vessel with an extremely tight dV budget. For an interplanetary flight, the Transfer window is obviously much more important, although a couple hours one way or the other is usually insignificant. Adjusting the values in IMFD's Course program to attain the lowest dV finds the best Transfer window, but that's not possible (or needed) for a moon-earth transfer using Planet Approach.

For a moon-earth transfer the Eject window is much more important. Changing the direction is much more expensive than changing the velocity, so we want to minimise any inward/outward velocity change (also any plane change velocity, so being in the correct plane before ejecting is also important - more on that later). This means we want our Ejection burn vector to be as closely aligned with our prograde velocity vector as possible. This means our ejection burn should be centered around the point where our planned transfer orbit is tangent to our pre-ejection orbit. That's what we accomplish by adjusting the TEj in IMFD's Orbit Eject program.

The Launch window is chosen to put us in the desired pre-ejection orbit as efficiently as possible. Ideally, we would launch from the specific location that allows us to enter our desired ejection plane using a 90 degree launch heading (assuming the body we are leaving rotates in a prograde direction), at the specific time that puts us at the ejection point at the exact time indicated by the TEj in the Course (or Planet Approach) program. This is rarely possible, since we can only launch from certain places (can't launch from the side of a mountain or the middle of a densely populated urban area, etc), so we choose a launch time that allows us to reach our desired plane using as close to a 90 degree launch as possible. It's important to be in the correct orbital plane before making the ejection burn to minimize the dV needed for the ejection burn (since it's also the Transfer burn). For a lunar return it's a bit simpler - since the moon rotates so slowly using a 90 degree launch heading isn't as important. We chose our launch time and heading so that we can get into our ejection plane without needing any plane changes once in orbit.

A few hours difference between the TEj in the Planet Approach (or Course) program and the Orbit Eject program is pretty insignificant, as Jarmonik pointed out. The closer they are, the more accurate the flight will be (minimising mid-course corrections) but we're talking about a very small difference, usually less than 100 m/s difference in our MCC burn. For a vessel with an extremely tight delta-V budget it may pay to match the TEj's, but keep in mind that IMFD's Course and Planet Approach programs have limited accuracy, so the deviation from the plan caused by a slight difference in TEj's is less than the deviation caused by IMFD's inaccuracy. In some cases the deviation caused by the difference in TEj's may cancel out some of the deviation caused by IMFD's inaccuracy, and it's rarely worth trying to make the TEj's match perfectly.

For a moon-earth transfer matching the TEj's won't result in any noticeable difference in the dV required, and you can use IMFD's Map program (which is much more accurate than Planet Approach or Course) to fine tune your course with just a few seconds of translational RCS almost immediately after the ejection burn.

Also, in "Home Direct" we needed to adjust our arrival time (PeT in IMFD) so that we would place our Pe in the correct place for the direct re-entry, and adjusting the PeT had an effect on the required dV. Optimally, we could have planned out launch and eject times to create a more efficient transfer if we calculated the optimal "time of flight", and subtracted that from our required PeT to get our TEj.

I hope I've explained this understandably, it's a complex subject and if you have difficulties understanding it's likely due to my not explaining it well enough. Feel free to ask more questions if you have any and I'll do my best to make the answers understandable.

Tommy
 

Zatnikitelman

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I'm back again with another slightly related question.
In the map program, I've noticed that it doesn't always update my plan and projected position. For example, today I was trying to teach myself how to offset a target and noticed that the map only showed a blue line part of the way out of Earth orbit. I played around with the settings I could find on the map page, but couldn't find any that I thought would affect this. I always make sure to link the right MFD to the left (hit pg, enter 0 from the right MFD).
Thanks for any help,
Zat
 

Tommy

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I'm not at home, so I can't check this out myself, but I suspect I know the problem. On IMFD's Map, find the configuration page. You're looking for something along the lines of "period limit", and add a couple zeros to the end of it (in other words, increase this number substantially) and see if that helps. I think Map is showing you your course, but not projecting far enough into the future to be useful.
 

tblaxland

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Close, Tommy ;). Toggle "Period Limit" to "No", and adjust "Time limit" to suit your needs. Time limit is the amount of time that IMFD will integrate your trajectory over. The longer you make it, the longer the Map program will take to compute the trajectory, so only make it as large as you need but no larger. For example, for a lunar free return trajectory you will want about 150 hours (540 ks).
 
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