Problem Can't land DG on bases situated on "small" moons

[BlackOmega]

Hey folks,
I've been touring the Solar System in Orbiter 2016 for a while now, adding bases (copies of the Brighton Beach base) to various destinations as I choose them, then traveling to them and landing on the bases as refueling points to continue my journey.
This has worked quite well for many planetary destinations and large moons (e.g. Europa, Ganymede, Titan) without any issues, but most recently I've arrived at a base (again that I added) on Enceladus, and I can't seem to get the DG into the "landed" state on the launch pad.
While on other planets/moons the vehicle would settle after a moment (and applying the wheel brakes) and the fuel would reset, on Enceladus the vehicle will keep moving around (despite applying the brakes) and also the frame rate will become slightly jerky as if there's a simulation problem.
I get the impression that this is an issue related to how small the moon is, as according to the MFD the gravitational contribution is overwhelmingly from Saturn, and a saved scenario's contents indicate the simulation is treating the spacecraft as "orbiting Saturn" with some arbitrary velocity.
Can anyone tell me how I can edit the saved scenario to ensure that my craft is treated as "landed" on Enceladus and refueled? That would be a very satisfactory workaround.

 

[kuddel]

As you've asked for a "satisfactory workaround", I would recommend to use the Scenario-Editor and place the Vessel on Enceladus' Base-X.

 

[boogabooga]

I get the impression that this is an issue related to how small the moon is, as according to the MFD the gravitational contribution is overwhelmingly from Saturn, and a saved scenario's contents indicate the simulation is treating the spacecraft as "orbiting Saturn" with some arbitrary velocity.

Right, so this would mean that what you are observing is realistic, as tidal forces, etc. would mean that you couldn't truly land in a permanent sense.

I would say the "issue" is your expectation, not the simulation.

 

[kuddel]

Nevertheless, the described (heavy, I might add) framerate drop when almost landed is still a kind of buggy behavior. Once you slightly get of the ground (via RCS downward thrust), the framerate is stable again.
"Landing" or just "resting on the surface" is still not really a working experience.
And by the way: pausing the Sim, immediately makes the scene "responsive" again. Without pause, even working with the Scenario Editor is close to impossible.

 

[BlackOmega]

As you've asked for a "satisfactory workaround", I would recommend to use the Scenario-Editor and place the Vessel on Enceladus' Base-X.

Thank,s I'll give it a try!

 

[BlackOmega]

Right, so this would mean that what you are observing is realistic, as tidal forces, etc. would mean that you couldn't truly land in a permanent sense.

I would say the "issue" is your expectation, not the simulation.

"Realistically", as in in reality, vessels should definitely be able to "truly" land on moons like Enceladus. Permanently.

My only expectation was that the simulation would at some point run into some sort of limitation, and this is clearly one of them - hence my request for a workaround.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Take a look at this thread and see if this might help...
https://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=40252&highlight=brakes

 

[boogabooga]

"Realistically", as in in reality, vessels should definitely be able to "truly" land on moons like Enceladus. Permanently.

No, not neccesarily.

 

[Marcin]

Nevertheless, the described (heavy, I might add) framerate drop when almost landed is still a kind of buggy behavior. Once you slightly get of the ground (via RCS downward thrust), the framerate is stable again.
"Landing" or just "resting on the surface" is still not really a working experience.
And by the way: pausing the Sim, immediately makes the scene "responsive" again. Without pause, even working with the Scenario Editor is close to impossible.

Is there any solution? I have the same problem.

 

[Linguofreak]

No, not neccesarily.

Given that Enceladus is massive enough to have pulled itself into a sphere, a spacecraft wouldn't be pulled off the surface by tidal forces (otherwise only structural strength would keep it together, which wouldn't sphericalize it), so anything that comes into contact with the surface should eventually settle.

 

[Linguofreak]

Is there any solution? I have the same problem.

Slowing down to 0.1x time acceleration will probably help (it's been a while since I opened Orbiter, but I seem to recall that there's a 0.1x setting), and then trying to get as close to wings level as possible and zero out your velocity while close to the ground as you can get without touching it. Then allow yourself to drop to the surface and wait for things to settle.

 

[Marcin]

But what cause this bug? If on moon and similar bodies i can land normaly, there must be something in config file or module .dll to edit. This bug make me verey sad ;[

 

[Linguofreak]

The surface gravity on Enceladus is very low. This means that unless you come into contact with the surface very slowly, you are likely to bounce. The fact that the simulation uses discrete timesteps will tend to exacerbate this, but it would likely be an issue even in real life.

 

[Marcin]

Hello,
I came here to ask did somene find solution?

 

[Linguofreak]

As noted before, this can be a problem in real life too. Take https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philae_(spacecraft) for an example.

 

[Marcin]

Ok, but i think fps drop problem has different origin. For example i have this same issue on Callisto and this is even havier than Earth's moon (but only little bit lower gravity).

Maybe it's something with surf.tree file but i completly doesn't know how to read this or edit.

 

[Mr Martian]

I have experienced this too. From what I have been able to tell, from testing, is this actually has something to do with the surface elevation rendering in Orbiter 2016. If the planet/moon is a simple sphere (as in the old versions, no terrain) this will seem to happen. FPS will drop when contact is made, and vessel behaviour will be strange. I created some simple, low res topography maps and turned them into orbiter’s tree files for the planets/moons, and the behaviour is normal.

 

[Marcin]

I have experienced this too. From what I have been able to tell, from testing, is this actually has something to do with the surface elevation rendering in Orbiter 2016. If the planet/moon is a simple sphere (as in the old versions, no terrain) this will seem to happen. FPS will drop when contact is made, and vessel behaviour will be strange. I created some simple, low res topography maps and turned them into orbiter’s tree files for the planets/moons, and the behaviour is normal.

Hi,
Martian, I'm back and still struggling with this annoying bug. Could you please share with files you created or describe the procedure how to create this kind of .tree files?

 

[Mr Martian]

Hi,
Martian, I'm back and still struggling with this annoying bug. Could you please share with files you created or describe the procedure how to create this kind of .tree files?

Hi Marcin,

From memory it is quite fiddly, but everything I needed I found in this thread: https://orbiter-forum.com/threads/orbiter-texture-tree-tools-ot3.34136/

Hope it helps!