Ion drives

[Chipstone306]

Question ... How big does an ion drive have to be to give the correct thrust to move a sattelite? Similar to the Dawn probe?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/09/26/dawn.mission.ap/index.html:huh:

 

[Bj]

Question ... How big does an ion drive have to be to give the correct thrust to move a sattelite? Similar to the Dawn probe?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/09/26/dawn.mission.ap/index.html:huh:

Try this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_engines

it looks like all the information about its specs
and
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/SMART-1/SEMLB6XO4HD_1.html
is some pics of ion engines in the satilite. From the pictures they donot look that big,

I guess it doesnot matter about the size as much as the thrust/weight ratio. They have a very large ISP so thats why they can be a lot smaller than the other traditional rockets. So if they dont have enought thrust, they add anouther engine, or reduce the weight,

 

[Bj]

Question ... How big does an ion drive have to be to give the correct thrust to move a sattelite? Similar to the Dawn probe?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/09/26/dawn.mission.ap/index.html:huh:

I found this great site to help your understanding (and mine:lol
here

 

[Bj]

I Finnally found it,

Each engine (for the Dawn mission) is 20 pounds and about the size of a basketball, But because of the Ion engines nature, Dawn will be required to burn for about 2000 days, or about 5.5 years.

The Ion engine is not so strong, it has about the force of a paper in you hand and goes from 0-96.56 km/h in 4 days. BUT it takes only 1 kg for those 4 days. Good gas milage hu? :lol:

 

[Chipstone306]

ION engines

Thanks! Im going to go and install one in my car this week...may take 2 days to go to the corner store but I will no longer have to rely on Mid east oil!!!

:lol:

 

[Bj]

Thanks! Im going to go and install one in my car this week...may take 2 days to go to the corner store but I will no longer have to rely on Mid east oil!!!

:lol:

:rofl: (man I like that smilie )

actually the Ion thruster is so weak that it cannot even push itself in earth atmophere, so you will have to line up about 640,000 thrusters to make the car move :blink: :lol:

That would look really cool going down the road...

:edited:

It reminded me of what I did last year,

I took a little radio controlled race car, (about 4 Inches long) and attached one of those fuzzy wire things and made a guy off of it and then placed 2 rocket motors horizontally to it. So the plan was to have the rocket motors propell the car while I steered with the radio,
The first motor was a small one, what it did was made a lot of smoke and didnot go anywhere. THe next one I had 2 DD size and it moved alitle, before the motor caught the fuzzy guy on fire, :lol: It also melted the tires. It was weird because their was a lot of smoke and I couldnot see what was on fire untill we got up close. But it was fun.
:hotcool:

 

[Chipstone306]

Ion engine

The hardest part would be the vehicle inspection .......

I have no texture skills or programming skills at all but i would love to launch the dawn probe in the game

 

[Bj]

The hardest part would be the vehicle inspection .......

I have no texture skills or programming skills at all but i would love to launch the dawn probe in the game

I accept that challenge!

I dont have programming skills but I can use Vidkas.ddl to make it, we can work together to make it. I am (i think) good at mesh making and texturing.

 

[Chipstone306]

ion engine

I guess this is as close as i would get to building a rocket powered vehicle

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8176C-2JdQ8"]YouTube - turbinebike[/ame]

I don't think there is any addon that uses ion engines in orbiter at all
not counting warp which i hate ...
orbiter should be used for current, past and conseption spacecraft models only no star trek!!!!

 

[Bj]

I guess this is as close as i would get to building a rocket powered vehicle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8176C-2JdQ8

I don't think there is any addon that uses ion engines in orbiter at all
not counting warp which i hate ...
orbiter should be used for current, past and conseption spacecraft models only no star trek!!!!

Well, your right, there is no ion engines, but we can simulate it by making the engine a really high isp so its realistic, and make the thrust really low, it should simulate that very good

 

[Bj]

This is a link to the engine thats used in the dawn spacecraft,


http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/bss/factsheets/xips/nstar/ionengine.html


NSTAR Engine
30 centimeters
17.6 lbs (8 kg)
3100 seconds ISP
20 to 92 mN of thrust

And thats all the info we need; now we just need the mesh and the textures to make it,

 

[Chipstone306]

ion engine

Hmmmmmm...
smart idea

Second question do you think they can use other gases besides xenon instead in the engine ?

 

[Bj]

Hmmmmmm...
smart idea

Second question do you think they can use other gases besides xenon instead in the engine ?

Well I think so, but that will change the propertys of the engine and the performence. I think that the reason they use the xenon is becuase its melting point is like -111*c and its molecular dencety is greater, but if you can find anouther one then we can invent our own spacecraft instead of copying the Dawn spacecraft. :speakcool:

 

[AstroCam]

Heres an idea - nuclear enginge with FLOX augmentation...
Nuclear reacto heating and expelling LH2, then you dump a mixture of fluorine and oxygen into the nozzel - I'd like to see THAT on the back of your RC

EDIT: Why do they use nobel gases? Is it so they don't react with the engine when ionised? For that matter, how DO nobel gases get ionised? Ie: Xe^2+

 

[Bj]

Heres an idea - nuclear enginge with FLOX augmentation...
Nuclear reacto heating and expelling LH2, then you dump a mixture of fluorine and oxygen into the nozzel - I'd like to see THAT on the back of your RC

EDIT: Why do they use nobel gases? Is it so they don't react with the engine when ionised? For that matter, how DO nobel gases get ionised? Ie: Xe^2+

if I remember correctly Nobel gases are like helium, Xenon and Krypton, and I believe that they are 2 characteristics that would be ideal in space,

low melting temperature and they are chemically stable,
and Xenon is particularly ideal for ion engines because of its higher molecular denceity.
And what do you mean react with the engine when ionized?

 

[apollo13]

An ion thruster (more specifically an electrostatic ion thruster)
(Got that from wikipedia)
How can they make it if it's electrostatic?
Won't you have to use generators and a whole lot of energy for that?

 

[Bj]

An ion thruster (more specifically an electrostatic ion thruster)
(Got that from wikipedia)
How can they make it if it's electrostatic?

Do you mean; how do they build it?

Won't you have to use generators and a whole lot of energy for that?

If you are referring to the Ion grids then yes, they would take some energy, luckily, we have solar panels to make up for the power needed, so instead of packing huge batteries along, it makes up the energy as it goes along.

 

[flytandem]

But we then need to reprogram TransX to handle constant thrust. And what direction would the thrust be during the legs of the interplanetary journey? Just keep it prograde for simplicity? And it should have a way to program dates of starting and stopping the engine. That should add a nice variety of ways to create trajectories. Multiple slings with toggling the ion engine on/off throughout the trip.

 

[Bj]

But we then need to reprogram TransX to handle constant thrust. And what direction would the thrust be during the legs of the interplanetary journey? Just keep it prograde for simplicity? And it should have a way to program dates of starting and stopping the engine. That should add a nice variety of ways to create trajectories. Multiple slings with toggling the ion engine on/off throughout the trip.

good point

might be a problem, do you have any programming experience flytandem?

 

[Chipstone306]

gases

Heres an idea - nuclear enginge with FLOX augmentation...
Nuclear reacto heating and expelling LH2, then you dump a mixture of fluorine and oxygen into the nozzel - I'd like to see THAT on the back of your RC
EDIT: Why do they use nobel gases? Is it so they don't react with the engine when ionised? For that matter, how DO nobel gases get ionised? Ie: Xe^2+

Why use nuclear fuel to make the gases > find a way to harvest the gases from space!