Hardware New Hardware

[RisingFury]

Don't expect any less heat and noise from the I7 and GTX 660. I can use my I7 and 680 in place of the room's radiator when I start gaming.


I think you misunderstood the overclocking with the I7. It automatically adjusts its clock to fit the situation. By default, if it encounters a computationally heavy task, it boosts itself to its maximum turbo. When it sits idle, it throttles back to like 1.6 GHz or less and sits there at 2% power or something.

When you run it in the overclocked 4.4 GHz range, it also does that, just it increases the maximum turbo to that number - but only when it needs it.

I know when playing Skyrim, it doesn't even use full power even in 3.9 GHz mode, it does about 75%, but when playing Orbiter, it jumps to 4.4 GHz range and one of the cors runs at 90%+.

Not all games are written so that the load on CPU and GPU are balanced, so it always makes sense to have some extra power in reserve. It's exactly because the difference in price is only $10, that you should have gotten the 3770K, though at the end of the day, I still suspect you'll be able to run it in the 4.4 GHz mode and since its turbo is still at 3.9, it won't make much of a difference, if any at all.

Time will tell...

 

[Screamer7]

This will be my new system:

Case: Cooler Master Elite 430
Mainboard: MSI Z77A-G43
CPU: Intel Core i7 3770 @4x3.4GHz (Ivy Bridge)
CPU cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 412 Slim
RAM: 8GB Kingston HyperX Predator XMP @1600MHz
Graphics card: MSI GTX660 @2GB DDR5

Regarding the CPU cooler....
What about a closed water cooling kit like this examples:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...antec-kuhler-h2o-920-review-introduction.html

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/[primary-term]/corsair_h100_review

The main advantage of these coolers is that you remove the fan from the CPU to an external radiator.
That have the benefit of easier cleaning like dust accumulation.
Dust is one of the biggest enemies of heat sink/fan combinations.
They tend to form a effective "blanket" on the heat sink over time due to static electricity.
No matter how clean the environment is....it will always pick up some dust.
An external radiator in my opinion is much easier to clean.


Any thoughts will be appreciated because I consider this very strongly....

And remember FADEC, even the Core I7 will produce some heat, in spite of it's lower power consumption.
In this regard a water cooling kit is a better option.

 

[Hielor]

No offense, but if you aren't intending to overclock your processor, you wasted money by getting a 3rd party CPU cooler. The stock Intel CPU coolers are really quite fantastic for anything up to moderate overclocks, and is more than you need for the stock speed.

That is, assuming you got the boxed i7 processor--if you got an OEM one and saved some money that way, nevermind....but if you did get the boxed CPU with the included cooler, I'd see about returning the 3rd party cooler if possible.

As for water cooling--again, if you're not overclocking, lots of risk and expense for not much gain.

 

[FADEC]

As for the heat created by the CPU: a friend of mine also has an i7. But the noise level and heat generated by his system is by no means comparable to the AMD system which I had (we played Max Payne 3 with 3D Vision). You couldn't imagine. Even the power supply begun to create strange noises like it was on its last legs. And it's a high quality 700 watts PSU from Thermaltake. Remember that an AMD quad core uses almost twice as much power as an i5/i7.

No offense, but if you aren't intending to overclock your processor, you wasted money by getting a 3rd party CPU cooler. The stock Intel CPU coolers are really quite fantastic for anything up to moderate overclocks, and is more than you need for the stock speed.

In terms of overclocking it was a waste. But I got an i7 3770 tray. And there is still one advantage which is why I always buy a third party cooler in any case: it isn't as noisy as the stock coolers usually are. A lot of people don't mind. But I am rather sensitive for that typical stock purr.

The best third party cooler I ever had was the ISGC-200 from Thermaltake. You couldn't hear anything, while the stock cooler made me go crazy. I also expect a convenient sound environment from the Hyper 412 Slim.

Regarding the CPU cooler....
What about a closed water cooling kit like this examples:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...antec-kuhler-h2o-920-review-introduction.html

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/[primary-term]/corsair_h100_review

I don't have good experiences with water cooling to be honest. I had one a few years ago. The installation already was sweat-inducing. But the biggest issue was the noise. The sound of the pump became relatively annoying over time. I read that the issue still exists with the CPU water coolers. Especially the Corsair Hydro Series H100.

The main advantage of these coolers is that you remove the fan from the CPU to an external radiator.
That have the benefit of easier cleaning like dust accumulation.

Well, the fans of good third party CPU coolers are mostly removable very easily. Of course you still have to clean the heat sink itself. But you can buy special attachments for your vacuum cleaner or even special vacuum cleaners. I am going to buy an attachment set for about 10 USD. I wouldn't buy a water cooler only because you can reach the heat sink more easily.

 

[RisingFury]

No offense, but if you aren't intending to overclock your processor, you wasted money by getting a 3rd party CPU cooler. The stock Intel CPU coolers are really quite fantastic for anything up to moderate overclocks, and is more than you need for the stock speed.

Not for the 3770, or any other of the 22 nm based CPUs. The stock CPU cooler that came with my CPU couldn't even handle the 3.9 GHz default mode of my 3770K. The internet is full of similar results.

When I run Skyrim, the CPU run at a max of 95°C with an average of about 85°C. If I run it at full power by giving it a FFT test, it overheated in a few seconds. The stock Intel cooler just can't handle the 22 nm CPUs.

 

[FADEC]

Not for the 3770, or any other of the 22 nm based CPUs. The stock CPU cooler that came with my CPU couldn't even handle the 3.9 GHz default mode of my 3770K. The internet is full of similar results.

When I run Skyrim, the CPU run at a max of 95°C with an average of about 85°C. If I run it at full power by giving it a FFT test, it overheated in a few seconds. The stock Intel cooler just can't handle the 22 nm CPUs.

Wow. That's bad. Such temperatures certainly decrease the lifetime of the CPU.

With the Arctic Freezer Xtreme I got around 50°C while gaming (max settings), and 33-35° in idle. That was for the AMD though. But I think it might be equal in case of the Cooler Master Hyper 412 Slim and i7. I guess around 60°C still would be okay.

 

[Hielor]

Not for the 3770, or any other of the 22 nm based CPUs. The stock CPU cooler that came with my CPU couldn't even handle the 3.9 GHz default mode of my 3770K. The internet is full of similar results.

When I run Skyrim, the CPU run at a max of 95°C with an average of about 85°C. If I run it at full power by giving it a FFT test, it overheated in a few seconds. The stock Intel cooler just can't handle the 22 nm CPUs.

Odd, I didn't run across any mention of this in the reviews I read. I'll have to keep an eye out for any issues; thanks for the warning.

 

[Screamer7]

I think the CPU heat spreader is to blame here.
I did watch a video on YouTube about a guy removing the heat spreader of his I7 CPU, clean the die and spreader, put on some DECENT thermal paste. He claimed that the results after that hair rising operation was successful in that his CPU temp. drop dramatically.
Here is the video, but not recommended.

Why am I interested in an water cooling kit?
I running BIONC software on my PC.
The tasks stress the CPU to the max.
MY average CPU temp. is about 74 degrees Celsius with all four cores running 100%.
An to make matters worse, it is summer here in S.A. with high ambient temperatures.
Some days we hit 35 to 38 degrees Celsius.
I know I would not get lower temperatures than the ambient temperature in my room, but it will still be better than the stock Intel cooler.
Just for fun, watch this guy.

It reminded me about an add on some time ago where a guy put on several SRB,s on a DG.


BUT...if somebody can recommended me a good CPU cooler, I'll take note

 

[FADEC]

Uh. I would never try what the guy in the first video did with his CPU, althought it obviously works :blink:

BUT...if somebody can recommended me a good CPU cooler, I'll take note

From what I've read and seen the Noctua coolers are one of the best, if not the best air coolers on the market. Especially the Noctua NH-D14. But it's a 90 USD cooler...

The guy from your second video did review it

 

[Hielor]

A 90 USD cooler that completely blocks your RAM slots...

 

[Screamer7]

That is a big one. Ummm... it almost look like your avatar.
What about this one?
Coolermaster Hyper 612.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2644
I can get one tomorrow....if it fits my case.
BTW...how is your arm?

 

[RisingFury]

I wouldn't recommend expensive air cooling. Closed loop liquid cooling has the advantage now. It's become cheap enough that it's easily affordable and even the low end liquid cooling delivers same or better performance than the large air coolers according to reviews. The low end liquid coolers are even cheaper than high end air coolers - for same performance.

While having liquid running through the computer tends to scare people, I can tell you that these things are low maintenance. Oh and the liquid is inside is usually distilled water, which is *non conductive*.

 

[jangofett287]

I find this cooler to be incredibly effective. http://www.asus.com/Thermal_Solution/Multiple_platform/Silent_Knight/
I'm not sure I've ever seen my Core 2 Quad Core Q6600 go above 70.

 

[Screamer7]

I wouldn't recommend expensive air cooling. Closed loop liquid cooling has the advantage now. It's become cheap enough that it's easily affordable and even the low end liquid cooling delivers same or better performance than the large air coolers according to reviews. The low end liquid coolers are even cheaper than high end air coolers - for same performance.

While having liquid running through the computer tends to scare people, I can tell you that these things are low maintenance. Oh and the liquid is inside is usually distilled water, which is *non conductive*.

Thanks RisingFury, now I don't feel so lonely anymore.
Your advice to me is to get a liquid cooling kit?
What is your experience with the noise these closed loop liquid coolers produce?
I know that larger 120 mm fans rotate slower, causing less noise.
But what about the pump?

 

[RisingFury]

Thanks RisingFury, now I don't feel so lonely anymore.
Your advice to me is to get a liquid cooling kit?
What is your experience with the noise these closed loop liquid coolers produce?
I know that larger 120 mm fans rotate slower, causing less noise.
But what about the pump?

I personally have Antec H2O 620 running in my machine, so I'll tell you about it.

As I said, with the stock Intel cooler, the CPU overheated, so I knew I needed more cooling power. I started doing research into liquid cooling and much to my surprise, I found these closed circuit, easy to install kits.

This thing is very easy to install. You open the case on both sides. It comes with its own installation kit, it doesn't just fit into the existing CPU cooler holes or plugs. On the back of the mobo, you kinda glue on a mount (when I say glue, I mean sticky tape on top of a foamy material). You can then put the cooler on the front and cover everything up. Only takes a few screws.

The cooler already comes with thermal paste applied onto the copper, so all I had to do was clean the old thermal paste off, then press the cooler onto the CPU and tighten the screws. So no hassle even with the thermal paste.

The fan screws into one of the case's fan slots. Again, 4 screws. The power for the fan is first routed to the cooler, then from the cooler to the fan with a longer wire, that way the pump and the fan get power.

The fan is large - larger than the typical stock cooler's fan and has quite a bit of throughput. The ribs on the heat exchanger are smaller than those of the typical CPU heat exchanger ribs. Dust doesn't really get inside them, it just sticks on top. I clean it off every weak or two...

As far as noise goes, that changes. If you turn the computer off, the liquid in the loops also cools and when you boot the computer, the fan first runs more quietly. As the liquid heats up, the fan gets more revs, but still not what I'd call loud. When at full load, it does get a bit louder, but still in the same range as the top speed on the noise on the stock cooler. Definitely more quiet than my previous computer, which run like a jet turbine...



The installation of the kit took me 20 minutes. Make sure you watch a quality YouTube video on the subject, as I found the install instructions... a bit lacking.


I'm definitely very happy with this cooler. When I still had the stock Intel cooler, I could feel a lot of heat rising from the top of the computer - not sure if that was because of bad air flow or something, but now if I put my hand at the back, where the fan blows air out, the air is cool or at most, slightly warm. My guess is that the air is at a lower temperature, but higher has a higher throughput and thus removes the same amount of heat.


Idle temperatures after boot (cool liquid) are in the 30°C to 35°C, when liquid is warm, they're between 35°C to 40°C. When running in 3.9 GHz mode at full power (prime 95 test), they're around 65°C to 70°C, when running overclocked at 4.4 GHz, they're at about 75°C to 80°C. The I7 3770K I have has a thermal limit of 105°C before throttling occurs. All the 22 nm based CPUs are expected to run hot (smaller circuits, higher circuit density ---> less ability to get rid of heat, according to Intel), so these temperatures shouldn't surprise you.

When running games, the CPU usually runs between 50°C and 55°C, though. Ambient temperature in the room is about 23°C.

The price was 60€, IIRC, but Europe has more expensive computer parts. I imagine the price in USD will be about $70 or so. In my opinion definitely worth it.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Did someone say liquid cooling?

 

[paddy2]

Now my setup runs so quiet, so cool. Just every time I get into orbit I just have to have fish and chips for my tea!!!

 

[FADEC]

My new system is up and running :hotcool:

And I have to say that this is the most amazing system I built in my life so far. It offers way more power than my previous AMD-based system while producing less heat. And there are no increased fan noises while gaming at all. The PSU fan stays quiet again just like it was the case when I still had my old Core 2 Duo running.

The 50 USD for the CPU cooler was no waste of money obviously. This thing is massive and keeps the CPU temperature at around 48°C while playing Guild Wars 2 with max settings, and at about 6-8°C above room temperature at idle. Not to mention the FPS I get in Guild Wars 2. It's now doubled.

And the cream topping: FSX finally runs smooth at max settings. That was the most noticeable difference between the Phenom II X4 and i7 for now. A M A Z I N G. Even while flying over Manhattan/NY I still get around 50 fps with max settings (I consider NY as one of the most dense sceneries in FSX). I got only laggy 18 fps with the Phenom II X4.

You pay for what you get. The i7 clearly is the queen. It's really worth the money. You don't only pay for the brand but for real performance.

As for water cooling: it's a matter of taste. But something tells me that water does not belong into a computer.

One can get healthy temperatures with a good air cooler as well. Even while overclocking. What prevents me most from buying a water cooler again is the aquarium noise :lol:

A 90 USD cooler that completely blocks your RAM slots...

Depends on the RAM you use.

I could not install 4 of my new Kingston HyperX Predator. They are too high. My new cooler blocks the first slot. But I don't mind since there is not need to use all 4 slots. Even in case I change to 16GB in future. It will be 2x8GB or even 1x16GB and that's it.

---------- Post added at 02:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------

That is a big one. Ummm... it almost look like your avatar.

I didn't notice it so far

What about this one?
Coolermaster Hyper 612.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2644

I don't know this one.

I got the Hyper 412 Slim. And for now I can say it does its job very well. But the installation was adventurous. You have to tighten 4 big screws onto the motherboard. I got an attack of sweating when I saw that the soft ring washers became smushed between the screws and motherboard. I guess they are supposed to do this to prevent contact with the motherboard. But it looked really creepy. Maybe I'm just a sissy.

BTW...how is your arm?

Stretching it forward works almost without any pain. But stretching it sideways still is an issue. I can lift it up to 90° but the shoulder moves up as well. So the right shoulder looks different than the left shoulder when I do this. But I don't think it's caused by the shoulder joint. I think it's caused by thr ligaments. Because when I use a table to stretch out my arm and put it onto the table, the shoulder looks normal. It seems I just can't lift up the arm to 90° on my own without moving the shoulder as well.

There is also still a pain in my collarbone during and after certain movements. But I can use my arm for everyday life already.

 

[Screamer7]

After I thought it out the jury decided on liquid cooling.
Thanks for that thoroughly review RisingFury.
Another thing I like about that Antec H2O 620 cooler is the rubber tubes.
Other coolers tend to have ribbed plastic tubes, which in my opinion is looking for trouble.
I was surprised to see that high temps on my I5 3470 CPU, but feel better now after reading your experience with the I7.
It looks like my CPU (3.2 GHz) is overclocking it to the max which is 3.6 GHz. (Turbo boost). That mean the stock cooler is doing it's job...but not good enough.
Temperatures over 75 degrees Celsius is too high for my peace of mind.
It is like looking for a nuclear meltdown.
Ummm....what is the melting point of lead again?
And my problem is that my CPU is running that temperatures 24/7.
So a good CPU cooler is a must.
So, it is time for shopping.
And on my shortlist there is only one entry.
The Antec H2O 620!!

 

[FADEC]

I was surprised to see that high temps on my I5 3470 CPU, but feel better now after reading your experience with the I7.
It looks like my CPU (3.2 GHz) is overclocking it to the max which is 3.6 GHz. (Turbo boost). That mean the stock cooler is doing it's job...but not good enough.
Temperatures over 75 degrees Celsius is too high for my peace of mind.
It is like looking for a nuclear meltdown.
Ummm....what is the melting point of lead again?
And my problem is that my CPU is running that temperatures 24/7.

I did a stress test last night using Prime95. At 100% constant workload the temp of my i7 was 52°C on average. Peak was at 54°C. I stopped the test after 25 minutes since the temperatures of all cores stayed relatively stable. The air vented out of the case by the side fan was as cold as it is when the CPU is in idle. Same for the PSU fan. Only the air coming from the fan of the back of the case was hand-hot.

To compare this to my previous AMD Phenom II X4: it exceeded 65°C during the test within only 5 minutes. In other words: less power but more heat and more electricity consumption. All the fans vented out rather warm air. Not to mention the noise level of the PC.

So a good CPU cooler is a must.
So, it is time for shopping.
And on my shortlist there is only one entry.
The Antec H2O 620!!

Let my know your temperatures once you installed the cooler. Would be interesting to know the difference.