New Release Interplanetary Modular Spacecraft RC9

[Dantassii]

Yes, I know... there's a few things at work here. RC3 will be somewhat more stable, but it still isn't the mother of stability... it works decently enough in D3D9, anyways. I think I'm just about done tinkering with it, only a few todos left, then I'll call it as good as it gets (it still crashes from time to time, and I have no idea why exactly there's still missing meshes every now and then...)

I've never found a computer program that was 100% done. There are always things to fix, or new features to add, or existing features to improve on. Sometimes you just have to say 'enough' and go onto the next project/version/release.

You are doing an EXCELLENT job with this Jedidia. I can't stress that enough. I'm VERY impressed with what you've been able to do with this. Having reverse engineered quite a bit of spagetti code of my own in my career, I know it's not easy to get to the bottom of these sort of bugs. Anyone who willingly dives into such code and successfully fixes even 1 bug is worthy of praise and thanks.

Keep up the good work!

Dantassii
HUMONGOUS IMS shipbuilder

PS. Is there a word for 'bigger than humongous'?

 

[wingnut]

I built a small lander based on a screenshot someone has posted in this thread a while ago and I have the problem that its RCS only works for pitch and yaw but not roll.

This is the scenario file:

BEGIN_DESC
Contains the latest simulation state.
END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 51982.6442033544
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship Lander
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET Lander
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 50.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Orbit
  REF AUTO
END_HUD

BEGIN_PANEL
END_PANEL

BEGIN_SHIPS
ISS:ProjectAlpha_ISS
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS -6489875.05 -982445.81 1534801.89
  RVEL -1525.568 7322.282 -1771.013
  AROT 30.00 0.00 50.00
  AFCMODE 7
  IDS 0:588 100 1:586 100 2:584 100 3:582 100 4:580 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 466
END
Lander:IMS\SBB41B\BG203_CONTROL_AI_SContainer
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 4086282.27 0.75 5693507.93
  RVEL -6126.980 0.001 4397.396
  AROT 30.68 49.73 21.56
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000 1:1.000000 2:1.000000 3:0.997441
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  COMMAND 1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT101_Truss 0,2.3571,0 0,0,1 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank202_LOX_LH2_SFuelTank -2.1966,2.3571,0 1,0,0 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BG201_Battery_SContainer 0,4.7143,0 0,0,1 0,-1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BTank202_LOX_LH2_SFuelTank 2.1966,2.3571,0 -1,0,0 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT102_Small_Node 0,2.3571,6.1648 0,1,0 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BT102_Small_Node 0,2.3571,-6.1648 0,1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BHVE_Sidemount_Rocket_Engine -2.0768,3.1451,-6.1648 0,-1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BHVE_Sidemount_Rocket_Engine 2.0767,3.1451,-6.1648 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BHVE_Sidemount_Rocket_Engine 2.0767,3.1451,6.1648 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BHVE_Sidemount_Rocket_Engine -2.0768,3.1451,6.1648 0,-1,0 1,0,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,3.8459,6.1648 0,1,0 0,0,-1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,3.8459,-6.1648 0,1,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,0.8684,6.1648 0,-1,0 0,0,-1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,0.8684,-6.1648 0,-1,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,2.3571,7.6535 0,0,1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BRCS_ReactionControlSystem_Engine 0,2.3571,-7.6535 0,0,-1 0,1,0 0
  MODULE Docking_Adapter_APAS 0,-2.2184,0 0,-1,0 0,0,1 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BR010_Radiator -3.3044,2.3571,0 -1,0,0 0,1,0 0
  MODULE SBB41B\BR010_Radiator 3.3044,2.3571,0 1,0,0 0,-1,0 0
  DELETEPOINT 2
  DELETEPOINT 1
  ATTPOINT IM 0,5.9827,0 0,1,0 0,0,1
  DELETEPORT 1
  DELETEPORT 0
  CONSTRUCTIONPORT 0,5.9827,0 0,1,0 0,0,1
  DOCKPORT 0,-3.1684,0 0,-1,0 0,0,1
  EMPTYMASS 10800.000000
  MASSCENTER 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
  PMI 21.540000 24.680000 19.180000
  PROP LOX_LH2 11360 11330.9
  ENGINE 6 0 0
  ENGINE 7 0 0
  ENGINE 8 0 0
  ENGINE 9 0 0
  RCSBLOCK 4 1000 4099 0,3.8459,6.1648 5 0,0,-1 1,0,0 0,0,1 -1,0,0 0,-1,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 1000 4099 0,3.8459,-6.1648 5 0,0,1 -1,0,0 0,0,-1 1,0,0 0,-1,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 1000 4099 0,0.8684,6.1648 5 0,0,-1 -1,0,0 0,0,1 1,0,0 0,1,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 1000 4099 0,0.8684,-6.1648 5 0,0,1 1,0,0 0,0,-1 -1,0,0 0,1,0 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 1000 4099 0,2.3571,7.6535 5 0,1,0 1,0,0 0,-1,0 -1,0,0 0,0,-1 1
  RCSBLOCK 4 1000 4099 0,2.3571,-7.6535 5 0,1,0 -1,0,0 0,-1,0 1,0,0 0,0,1 1
  ANIM 17 SBB41B\BR010_Radiator 1 1
  ANIM 18 SBB41B\BR010_Radiator 1 1
  CONSUMABLES 0.0001 0.0001 0 0.0001 0.0001 0 0.0001 0.0001 0
  TEMPERATURES -1:298.83:376.73 2:298.15:376.73 6:699.07:377.11 7:698.84:376.26 8:698.84:341.68 9:699.03:274.37
  RADIATOR 17 248.714 -1 0 0 -1
  RADIATOR 18 249.586 1 0 0 2
  HEATING -1
  THGROUPLEVELS 0 0 0 0 
  CREW 0 0
  ENERGY 394625755.644501
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 1 0 3 0 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 1 0 1 0 0 -1 -1
  MFC 1 0 7 0 0 0 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 1 0 2 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
  MFC 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_ExtMFD
END

Could someone check if I did anything wrong in the setup of the ship, please?

 

[PeterRoss]

I built a small lander based on a screenshot someone has posted in this thread a while ago and I have the problem that its RCS only works for pitch and yaw but not roll.

...

Could someone check if I did anything wrong in the setup of the ship, please?

Can't say for sure, but it seems that RCS module have to be farther than some minimal distance from the axis it should affect. I placed some long ugly truss on the top of the vessel (which actually seem to be the vessel's bottom since engines are pointing in this direction) perpendicular to vessel's z-axis and attached two RCS modules to its ends. The vessel started to roll:

I also noticed that it doesn't matter if RCS modules are selected in RCS menu on engineering panel or not, they're active anyway.

 

[goaowonk]

I also noticed that it doesn't matter if RCS modules are selected in RCS menu on engineering panel or not, they're active anyway.

Sometimes they don't work for me even if I select them in RCS menu, but I still havn't found a specific way to repeat that. They sometimes work, and sometimes not for me.

 

[PeterRoss]

Sometimes they don't work for me even if I select them in RCS menu, but I still havn't found a specific way to repeat that. They sometimes work, and sometimes not for me.

Hmm. If it happen again that no RCS modules are working please post your scenario here, I'll take a look at it.

 

[wingnut]

Can't say for sure, but it seems that RCS module have to be farther than some minimal distance from the axis it should affect. I placed some long ugly truss on the top of the vessel (which actually seem to be the vessel's bottom since engines are pointing in this direction) perpendicular to vessel's z-axis and attached two RCS modules to its ends. The vessel started to roll:

I also noticed that it doesn't matter if RCS modules are selected in RCS menu on engineering panel or not, they're active anyway.

Thanks, I'll try it with two RCS blocks only then and see if it does anything.

Would you have placed the main engines the other way around? I haven't really fired them yet so I can't tell whether the facing makes sense or not.

 

[PeterRoss]

Would you have placed the main engines the other way around? I haven't really fired them yet so I can't tell whether the facing makes sense or not.

You see, vessels in Orbiter are meant to land on their belly or tail, but the latter is rather special case. Your vessel will land on belly, since you don't have your touchdown points defined. By the way, judging by the absense of TDPOINTS string in your scenario entry you're using some obsolete IMS version. I recommend you to upgrade to IMS RC2.3 or wait for RC3.
So, while your vessel is meant to land on belly its engines are obviously directed upwards. This means that you will have to land while oriented upside down, but your vessel will turn 180 degrees when landed, which will leave you grounded forever since your engines will be directed into the sky.

By the way, landing upside down can make interesting gaming experience :lol:

 

[jedidia]

Having reverse engineered quite a bit of spagetti code of my own in my career, I know it's not easy to get to the bottom of these sort of bugs. Anyone who willingly dives into such code and successfully fixes even 1 bug is worthy of praise and thanks.

Well, it's not quite that bad. Most of the issues were introduced by me, really. The baseline problem is that the architecture just wasn't up to accommodate all the features I forced on it, resulting in a big pileup of interlinked code. The other problem was that I introduced docking ports to help construction, and paired them with the already implemented system of attachment points. That's responsible for a lot of trouble with IMS, really.

 

[Dantassii]

SSTV Design complete.. for now

I've finished adding all the components to the Solar System Transport Vehicle (SSTV) that I want to add before I integrate it and see if it handles acceptably. Using the Scenario Editor, I've counted up all the modules. This list is the 'final' list unless I discover I need to add even more RCS thrusters to allow this monster to maneuver during main engine burns.

I think I'm going to wait for RC3 to come out before I try to integrate this thing. I did have some problems the last time I integrated it in that Orbiter would CTD if I tried to integrate the modules in certain orders, and also the BN301 truss network that the main engines are attached to liked to rotate randomly every so often. Once again, the way to get around that was back up 1 step and re-integrate the modules in a different order. This is a hassle as I have to shut down Orbiter and restart it every time had to back up a step and integrate in a different order.

616 BCCH (that's 19.25 XR5s worth of cargo, not including the cargo bays of the 2 XR5s that it carries along for the trip)
6 BM004
8 BM012
17 BM203
2 BM204
2 BM213
2 BM215
1 BM201 (this is the control module)
18 BM216
40 BM222
11 BM230 (that's 11 MW of power. Hopefully that's enough to keep everyone warm at Pluto)
14 BN200
99 BN301
18 BR200
110 BRCS2 (hopefully this is enough to keep it pointing where I want it to be pointed)
8 BT100
325 BT101
74 BT102
2 BT201
14 BT301
5 non-SSBB centrifuges (25 total modules)
3 DADG (2 for XR5's, 1 for docking with ISS or Lunar Station)
19 Hyper Engines (17 forward, 2 reverse)
64 Main Fuel Tanks (non-SSBB H2 Tanks)
60 NTE (backup in case the hyper engines conk out)
14 HT 640 M2 Radiators (for use during main engine burns when the BT200's aren't aligned correctly)
109 Big SSBB LOX_LOH tanks (for RCS propellant)

And the total number of models is.... :rum roll::

1681 modules

Based on the numbers from the external view, it's about 200 meters long, about 160 meters high and 180 meters wide.

It's a very pretty ship IMHO, even without its radiators deployed. Final FPS was 6-8 when the entire ship is in view while orbiting the Earth.

Once I get it integrated, I'll post some pictures of it as I test it out including the final dry and fully loaded mass. Well, fully loaded with fuel. It will be a long while before I actually take a copy of this and load it up with 616 BG cargo containers. I'm debating if I should slap a URMS on it. The cargo area is so crowded that it will probably require EVA activities to unload the individual pods and realistic operation of the URMS is probably useless to attempt.

Now I need to finish up the Lunar Station so I can actually BUILD one of these things.......:facepalm:

Dantassii
HUMONGOUS IMS shipbuilder

 

[PeterRoss]

...
And the total number of models is.... :rum roll::

1681 modules

You're really pushing my imagination to its limits here.
And I do envy you having so much free time to build such monsters. :lol:

 

[Dantassii]

My Summertime Hobbies

You're really pushing my imagination to its limits here.
And I do envy you having so much free time to build such monsters. :lol:

Every summer, I pick a hobby and run with it, from the beginning of May through the end of September. I don't actually make a conscious choice of the hobby, it just kinda happens. This summer, it was building IMS ships.. HUGE IMS ships. And I must say, I have never had so much fun with 1 of my summer hobbies as I have this summer.

Sadly, now that the summer hobby season is just about over for me, I probably will end up not doing as much on my HUGE ships for the next few months. With all the fixes that have been scheduled for RC3 however, one of the hardest parts of building such HUGE ships will be made much easier. So maybe this slowdown until next summer is a blessing in disguise, in that it will allow RC3 to be released before I am ready for some serious integrations.

Dantassii
HUMONGOUS IMS shipbuilder

 

[jedidia]

I'm getting closer to RC3. The changes I adapted from what I learned when working on IMS2 are almost worth the work in their own right. There's one major problem left: Integrating an animated module writes out of memory somewhere. In a Release build, this causes random crashes every now and then. In a Debug build, luckily, it causes a break every time a module is integrated after an animated module. I have pinpointed the function in which the problem must occur, but it's a rather long one and I have not yet found the actual problem. Still, I'm confident that if I trace this one down, good old IMS might actually be a rather agreeable piece of code after all...

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I'm getting closer to RC3. The changes I adapted from what I learned when working on IMS2 are almost worth the work in their own right. There's one major problem left: Integrating an animated module writes out of memory somewhere. In a Release build, this causes random crashes every now and then. In a Debug build, luckily, it causes a break every time a module is integrated after an animated module. I have pinpointed the function in which the problem must occur, but it's a rather long one and I have not yet found the actual problem. Still, I'm confident that if I trace this one down, good old IMS might actually be a rather agreeable piece of code after all...

I personally have faith that IMS will be a very workable add-on once the bugs are squashed. Finally having a Macro add-on like this will make a world of difference to Orbiter AFAIC

 

[Dantassii]

I'm getting closer to RC3. The changes I adapted from what I learned when working on IMS2 are almost worth the work in their own right. There's one major problem left: Integrating an animated module writes out of memory somewhere. In a Release build, this causes random crashes every now and then. In a Debug build, luckily, it causes a break every time a module is integrated after an animated module. I have pinpointed the function in which the problem must occur, but it's a rather long one and I have not yet found the actual problem. Still, I'm confident that if I trace this one down, good old IMS might actually be a rather agreeable piece of code after all...

An idea on trying to debug the long function. Try breaking it up into smaller functions. I've always worked with a rule of thumb that if a procedure/function/method was longer than could fit on a single screen of my editor, it was too long and needed to be broken down into smaller chunks. I would suggest refactoring 1 small part at a time and then testing it to make sure that it still behaves the same way as the original code. Refactoring is an art form, and there are no rules for how to do it correctly. I have found that some languages compile differently when you break up your long functions into smaller ones... and just the act of refactoring the code into smaller chunks makes the problem you are trying to debug go away completely, without having to make any actual changes to the algorhythm.

Needless to say, that doesn't happen often.. but when it does it's both frustrating and a relief.

Dantassii
HUMONGOUS IMS shipbuilder

 

[jedidia]

Ugh! Can't... find... bug!

Starting to rewrite the whole function from scratch in the hope that it'll help me understand what's going wrong...

 

[PeterRoss]

I hope the function you're talking about is not SetCenterOfGravity()... :shifty:

 

[jedidia]

No, that one I wrote myself, there's no problem there. I'm rewriting the function that creates the blooming animations, which has been virtually untouched in all the time I had the code.

I personally have faith that IMS will be a very workable add-on once the bugs are squashed.

Well yes, problem is just that for a while I lost hope that I could get it sorted out. That hope got rekindled by what I learnt while starting to write IMS2 and re-importing the things that could be re-imported into IMS, but I'm rather limited in what I can do (otherwise restarting from scratch wouldn't have been necessary after all).

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------

And this might just be one of those bugs I just can't eliminate.

Everything is working fine, until I add an animation component to an animation. That in itself also works flawlessy, but makes the code take a left turn at the next call of AddMesh(). I have eliminated all other possibilities, it's definitely the AddAnimationComponent call that's causing it. Which in turn probably just means that something else is causing this call to cause what it's causing, but that's the trouble: Bug hunting in this code is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

It also mostly seems to happen in D3D9 client...

 

[Dantassii]

Update on my HUMONGOUS IMS ships

I've been kinda busy this past week, changing companies with the new contract at work has kinda wore me out. Anyway, I just finished construction mission 101 on the Lunar Station and the SSTV is design-complete, waiting for someplace to build it.

With the SSTV having WAY more fuel onboard than the Arrow Freighter, I've now decided that I'm going to finish up the fuel tank farm on the 1 side of the Lunar Station before claiming Initial Repair/Refuel/Construction Capability (IRRCC). This means IRRCC won't happen until somewhere around Construction Mission 250 instead of 125.

You see.. it's those HUMONGOUS fuel tanks I'm adding right now.. I can only bring up 1 per XR5 mission and I need 4 to make 1 stack and there are 7 stacks in a row, and 6 rows on each side of the station. That means I'll need 4x7x6 or 168 missions just to bring up all the tanks for 1 side of the station! I've brought up a total of 29 tanks so far, so that's another 139 missions just to bring up the rest of the tanks. I'm filling out the edges of those payload bays with BCCH's. I also need to bring up 6 more BR200 radiators (that's 1.5 missions right there) as well as the support structures for all those fuel tank stacks.

If I'm lucky, by the end of the 'off-season' I'll have IRRCC or be pretty close to it. Then I'll probably try to integrate it just to see what it looks like (and make some screen captures). It's getting harder and harder to make screen captures that do the Lunar Station justice. It may end up being easier just to upload the scenario file and let people look at it from whatever angle and zoom they wish to view it at.

The Mission 102 Scenario file is 177Kb and runs at around 18 FPS on my computer when I zoom out to see the whole station with an XR5 docked with it.

The pre-integration scenario file for the SSTV is 423Kb in size and runs around 8 FPS on my computer when I zoom out to see the whole ship.

When I open the pre-integration scenario file for the SSTV in notepad, it's a sight to see.

I've also been giving some thought to another ship to design; the Emergency Transport Vehicle (ETV). It would be an unmanned ship used for delivering an XR5's worth of cargo from the Earth to any planet/moon/asteroid in the Sol system as fast as possible. As it would be unmanned, it won't need any human support modules. Just a control module, enough BCCH's to hold 36 full size cargo pallets, and enough RCS fuel for decent maneuvering, oh, and LOTS and LOTS of LH2 fuel for the Hyper Engines. I've got an idea of seeing just how fast the ETV can get from Earth to Pluto.

With the performance I see on the SSTV, I'm thinking Earth to Pluto in less than a year.

"When it absolutely, positively, has to get there THIS year."

Once again, I'd like to THANK :tiphat: all the folks who have gotten the code for IMS to the point that it is in. This has been a VERY enjoyable summer for me all because of your hard work.

One last question, did any of you folks associated with the development of the current version of IMS EVER think someone would build ships as big as my Lunar Station and/or SSTV? :lol:

Dantassii
HUMONGOUS IMS shipbuilder

 

[PeterRoss]

One last question, did any of you folks associated with the development of the current version of IMS EVER think someone would build ships as big as my Lunar Station and/or SSTV? :lol:

I guess you know the correct answer

What always cools me down about building big things in Orbiter is the inevitable realization of how unprobable will be the actual creation of such a vessel in reality because of economical reasons, assuming we ever reach the tech level needed for it. I'm glad you're able to think so much outside the box :tiphat:

 

[Dantassii]

I guess you know the correct answer

What always cools me down about building big things in Orbiter is the inevitable realization of how unprobable will be the actual creation of such a vessel in reality because of economical reasons, assuming we ever reach the tech level needed for it. I'm glad you're able to think so much outside the box :tiphat:

Actually, there is an economic model that supports construction of stuff like my Lunar Station and SSTV. The only thing that doesn't exist right now that would be required for it to work is this.

There has to be a manned colony somewhere off of the Earth that requires NO imports from Earth.

It doesn't have to be self sustaining, it just has to be able to support its inhabitants with material that does NOT come from the surface of the Earth. Once that happens, then the economy that my AIAA design team came up with in the AIAA graduate spacecraft design contest of 1994-95 will naturally happen. BTW, our economic model and what would be possible under it won the contest for that year.

Dantassii
HUMONGOUS IMS shipbuilder