Orbiter Forum Lunar Station

[Bonanza123d]

I am thinking about making a group for a lunar space station that is somewhat based of OFSS. Any takers?

 

[C3PO]

wouldn't that be OFLS?

 

[fireballs619]

Give us a nice plan, some missions, a roster, and projected timeline, and I think you'll have many more ideas than just throwing the idea about. Give us a reason to join.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Well, IIRC the idea has been floated before. It pretty much boils down to this...

If you want to operate in the current-tech to not-so-far-future-tech, the are not too many vehicles available that has enough oompf to get something as heavy as a station module into lunar orbit, there are, but it takes work. Follow-on modules not only have to get to lunar orbit, but manuever, intercept and dock. If you look at the thread regarding lunar tourism with Soyuz ships, you'll see just some of the problems involved (different set of problems, but similar enough).

On the other hand, if you want to use ships based on the fantastic (XR-5, et al), although these are awesome ships, they are far away in the future. An XR-5 could haul a complete station to lunar orbit in about three trips.

If you want to give it a try, my recommendations is have a comeplete, playable/flyable set of scenarios that have been tested. Then search for members to sign on. There are a few long range missions under development, REVIO and OFMM (Mission to Mars), there might be more, i dunno.

OFSS went through 3 "Flight Directors" before it's completion and eventual success. The OFMM (Lite) was a little smoother, but there were still bumps here and there. Kyle's vision of OFSS 2 kicked off with dozens of scenarios planned (were sitting at 42 missions planned so far).

Don't let me discourage you, rather allow me to encourage you to put together a totally awesome station plan, with a means to deliver them to LLO. I'm dedicated to assist with OFSS 2, but I wouldn't mind taking a peek at what you dream up.

 

[Bonanza123d]

Well I am just shooting the idea around to see if you would be interested. But i would be perfect to start off. We would use XR-5 based technology to move modules from the moon and back. Main Assembly will be at the NEW Wideawake International: Assention Ultra. The XR-5s will shuttle modules into hopefully a new base on the moon. I will create the base first and then plan all the scenarios. Don't worry. The station will be a large one and only a few modules will be used at a time. I will see about creating ships and try and modify the stock Space Shuttle with a somewhat smaller cargo bay and a larger fuel supply to make a lunar trip.

 

[T.Neo]

There are plenty of present (and even past) tech vehicles that can get a substantial amount of mass to the Moon... it's just that none of them are in service and a lot never got beyond the drawing board.

You could theoretically construct a station with a mass similar to the ISS or more in lunar orbit with existing launchers, but the construction process would be quite complex (requiring multiple launches, rendezvouses, dockings, etc) and perhaps not suited as well to an OFLS project.

 

[Kyle]

If your going to develop a OFSS2 style Lunar space station I'd suggest..
1) have a clear idea of what the completed station will look like.
2) Have 12-16 scenarios completed by the time people start flying missions.

 

[Bonanza123d]

There are plenty of present (and even past) tech vehicles that can get a substantial amount of mass to the Moon... it's just that none of them are in service and a lot never got beyond the drawing board.

You could theoretically construct a station with a mass similar to the ISS or more in lunar orbit with existing launchers, but the construction process would be quite complex (requiring multiple launches, rendezvouses, dockings, etc) and perhaps not suited as well to an OFLS project.

This will give an opportunity for addon developers to get a launcher, like the delta IV launcher to go to the moon, get into a stable orbit, and await retrieval by another vehicle (XR5 or others) to the holding facility on the ground.

 

[C3PO]

You could start here: http://www.orbiterfrancophone.com/index.php?disp=addons&id=18

 

[Bonanza123d]

good lead, but i will create a base. may use Brighton Beach ATM for the lunar missions. There will be 2 sets of missions. Specially modified launchers will take the modules to the moon and picked up in their lunar orbit with an XR5 or some other ship to the assembly building at Brighton Beach. Then special tugs will take the modules to the main station up in lunar orbit. I will work out the height of the orbit later on.

---------- Post added at 08:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 AM ----------

Ok. I am going to create the scenarios tonight and afterwards will put them in a social group. the first missions will take supplies and prepare for assembly in lunar orbit for the station. I will figure out altitude and inclination later on. At the end of development, i will make sure a developer makes a large mesh to be available on orbithangar so you can add it instead of the individual vessels. I am encouraging developers to make a new challenge and make "space tugs" to take up to the station and land back on the moon. When we are done, we will have a model with UMmu and UCGO for fun and for your enjoyment. This will be my project. I will create the vessel and other objects. I am wondering if it is possible for the tug to be a modified Space Shuttle. That would be interesting.

 

[Carmen A]

The idea of having two separate missions in each "phase" of OFSS is going to be quite interesting in my opinion.

If you're going to use limited advanced tech then it may be possible to have two persons active in the same mission through scenario sharing. One player launches the payload on a transfer orbit to the Moon, the second receives the scenario at the midway point with the note "Payload arrival at MJD ------", and figures out his own interception solution to bring the payload down.

That way I think there might be more cooperative elements than existing OF projects I've looked at. From what I see once we get to doing interplanetary transfers, Orbinauts can handle any sort of challenge...

What if the payload misses the Moon? Get the launch guy to pay out of salary

 

[Bonanza123d]

The idea of having two separate missions in each "phase" of OFSS is going to be quite interesting in my opinion.

If you're going to use limited advanced tech then it may be possible to have two persons active in the same mission through scenario sharing. One player launches the payload on a transfer orbit to the Moon, the second receives the scenario at the midway point with the note "Payload arrival at MJD ------", and figures out his own interception solution to bring the payload down.

That way I think there might be more cooperative elements than existing OF projects I've looked at. From what I see once we get to doing interplanetary transfers, Orbinauts can handle any sort of challenge...

What if the payload misses the Moon? Get the launch guy to pay out of salary

Wouldn't the payload go on a free return and it could be retrieved by earth? I think the space station would be great. It would be double the size of the ISS. We will only have 2 XR2s assigned to the project (Don't Crash them!). I tested the Delta IV Launch vehicle and it is able to get payloads into a free return trajectory around the moon.

 

[Ark]

I could be down with this project, it sounds better than another generic station in LEO. A few points:

-The station would need a good, powerful attitude control system to make up for the instability of lunar orbits, and reboosting/adjusting the orbit would have to be done in just about every mission.

-Just use seperate vessels for every module, don't try to screw around with a new mesh for every phase of construction.

-Landing modules on the moon, then launching them back into orbit seems silly. Why not just deliver them strait from Earth to lunar orbit?

-Using the XR5 feels a bit like cheating, how about using a Space Tug or something to place the module close enough to the core of the station to grab it with a long URMS? We've done a noob-level LEO OFSS, this one should cater more to the experienced people who want an interesting challenge.

-What about service craft? The Antares-LR can just barely make a circumlunar flight with almost no orbital maneuvering, so that's a possibility. Maybe if the Earth departure stage is used for lunar orbit insert as well.

 

[Bonanza123d]

I could be down with this project, it sounds better than another generic station in LEO. A few points:

-The station would need a good, powerful attitude control system to make up for the instability of lunar orbits, and reboosting/adjusting the orbit would have to be done in just about every mission.

-Just use seperate vessels for every module, don't try to screw around with a new mesh for every phase of construction.

-Landing modules on the moon, then launching them back into orbit seems silly. Why not just deliver them strait from Earth to lunar orbit?

-Using the XR5 feels a bit like cheating, how about using a Space Tug or something to place the module close enough to the core of the station to grab it with a long URMS? We've done a noob-level LEO OFSS, this one should cater more to the experienced people who want an interesting challenge.

-What about service craft? The Antares-LR can just barely make a circumlunar flight with almost no orbital maneuvering, so that's a possibility. Maybe if the Earth departure stage is used for lunar orbit insert as well.

Dont Worry. I will only be using XR5s for the transportation of modules to the moon. In all practicality, i am doing a landing on the moon because some parts need to be assembled there instead of on earth. They are gravity sensitive and can get damaged on assent.

 

[Pinguinboy]

You should also have a sort of lifeboat, in case of a critical failure. But then you have a big problem because the Moon isn't easy to reach (unless you use the XR5), and there are not very much bases on the Moon.

 

[Dambuster]

You should also have a sort of lifeboat, in case of a critical failure. But then you have a big problem because the Moon isn't easy to reach (unless you use the XR5), and there are not very much bases on the Moon.

Like [ame="http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4488"]this[/ame]?

 

[HAL9001]

I'll be there!

 

[Ark]

I still disagree that landing on the moon needs to be a part of this. It's a horrendous waste of energy and there's no credible reason to do it. Some landings can be part of the general operation of the station, but it's pointless for construction. Just make rendezvous in lunar orbit and install your modules.

 

[Stevodoran]

I still disagree that landing on the moon needs to be a part of this. It's a horrendous waste of energy and there's no credible reason to do it. Some landings can be part of the general operation of the station, but it's pointless for construction. Just make rendezvous in lunar orbit and install your modules.

Agreed. Their has to be some exploration of the moon.

 

[C3PO]

The most important thing to decide is where to put the station's orbit. What is it going to be used for? Lunar surface excursions is the obvious reason.

But this is not as simple as you might think. A manned lunar station will need a quick "bail-out" option to get to Earth in case of an emergency. The best orbit for that is an equatorial'ish retrograde orbit.
But that means that you can't get to all parts of the Moon without a major plane change. You can reduce the DV by using a high orbit, but that kind of orbit isn't very stable.
A station in polar orbit will allow you to get to all parts of the Moon, but the time between launch window (from the Lunar surface to the station) will be few and far between. Not good for emergencies.
The same goes for the escape-to-Earth windows.

If we can get a lander with enough DV, an equatorial orbit will be the best option IMHO.