Question Are you happy?

[replicant]

Donamy said it well, I found faith as well. When I was younger I used to pretty much hate the world and everything in it. I thought existence was a waste. Am I unhappy about a lot of THINGS? yes. Am I overall happy, yes. I have my family, my children, and the belief there is something beyond this. I know this doesn't seem to fit with my decry of theocracies, but if you think about it deeper, it does. I hate religion, religion has been used throughout history to abuse and destroy others.

I do not share a lot of the ideology of my religious right family or the others I am sometimes lumped into. I do not believe in the "ThunderGod" as some have said, or six day creationism. I do not think in any way that the old testament should be used to persecute others or as a call for war. I think that Moses who was the author of the first five books of the old testament wrote all that in the way he understood from what he was told or shown. To quote the guardian of forever :"I answer in the way your limited understanding makes possible". I think intelligent design is the term used now. All of our searches for answers are not "evil", but merely the attempt to discover the mechanism by which it was done.

I always liked the way Carl Sagan put it : "We are the universe's attempt to understand
itself."

If you are a follower of the New Testament and Christ, you could follow that up with, "We are also the universe's attempt to have relationship with itself"

 

[Belisarius]

Happiness without faith is possible too

Ford, an excellent post. My thoughts...

Please don't find faith.Don't do it to yourself. You can do much better than that.

Happiness in life comes from struggling with difficult problems and knowing you've done your honest best to overcome them. Failure is a real possibility, here. Failure should not make you unhappy, but it does. It hurts for a while ranging from a day to several years. Then you get over it. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, morally that is.

For a real guide to how you can become a happier, fuller person without supernatural totems, I strongly recommend the following book:

Unweaving the Rainbow by Richard Dawkins, available in German translation here:
http://www.amazon.de/entzauberte-Re...laube-Phantasie/dp/3499613379/ref=pd_sim_eb_9

And the following TV series, unmatched by any other since:
On YouTube, starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrClB86GfZk
Available to buy here:
http://www.amazon.de/Cosmos-Dr-Carl...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1221296833&sr=8-1

And two books which explain why religious faith is completely unnecessary for a sense of wonder and happiness, and in fact acts against human happiness:

The Varieties of Religious Experience by Carl Sagan
The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins
available in English language from German Amazon at €20 and €12 respectively here
http://www.amazon.de/Varieties-Scientific-Experience-Personal-Search/dp/1594201072
http://www.amazon.de/God-Delusion/dp/055277331X/ref=pd_sim_eb_1/302-4429362-8228048

As for the social side, I completely understand your feeling of isolation. Not one of my friends shares the same interests as me, unfortunately. But you could form a social group right here on Orbiter-Forum that leads naturally to real physical contact if geography permits. My Spanish-speaking buddies have formed one and we're heading for some social contact real soon.

BTW, your English is excellent, no need to apologise for it.

 

[Ghostrider]

Happiness in life comes from struggling with difficult problems and knowing you've done your honest best to overcome them.

Please don't tell that to a guy I happen to meet now and again. He's always struggled with hard stuff, always done his best and has always been thwarted - by other people. He's past 50 and has had his dreams snatched from him over and over, never by his fault. He's not happy, believe me. Don't play Yoda if you don't have the midichlorians.

 

[Usonian]

What an intersting read! Cheers to you for getting it started, FordPrefect

Before I enter into the group hug, a word to Kimball: I think you should have heeded the feeling that you were intruding. If you don't like the tenor of a Forum thread, leave it alone. A guy "exposes" himself and your first impulse is to kick and ridicule him? Ouch. I find it intersting and encouraging that yours is the only putdown (well, thus far). Come to think of it, the counterpoint of your post made me appreciate the largely positive and sympathetic character of all the others, so thanks for that. I also appreciate that your putdown was rather mild, as these things go online, so I thank you for that as well.

Now, into the embrace of my fellow Orbiternauts...

Am I happy? Probably not since I was 4 years old. Adult life is too long and complicated for complete bliss. For me the question is, Am I mostly happy?

I would be intrested to know how old you are, Ford. I suspect you are young. I am fast approaching 52. I have been married to the same woman for 26 years, 9 days. Being a couple was exciting, scary and sometimes tense in my 20s. There was a nice stretch through my 30s and early 40s when I was very happy with my wife. In recent years, we have evolved into amiable room mates - it can be dreadfully boring. We know each other's stories. The challenges and surprises are behind us. At the level of idle fantasy I find young, smooth, energetic women achingly attractive - surely a new relationship would restore the elements of challenge and surprise. But I wasn't "smooth with the ladies" when I was young, and now I am old, fat and balding. If some pretty young thing found me attractive my feelings of flattery would be overwhlemed by wondering what the hell was wrong with her! Anyway, older men pursuing younger women is such a stupid cliche. Moreover, comfort and ease in a relationship have real value. The challenge for me now is to make it interesting without the exciting surprises of new love. I need to adjust my expectations and engage in some creative effort. Up to this point, I haven't really tried.

Maybe an small appology to Kimball is now in order. Sometimes a kick in the pants is just the thing. Ultimately, a guy must stop crying in his beer, get up, and do something. To the extent that your post fills that function, well done. The first step is recognizing you are unhappy. That, I think, is the first function of self-exposing group therapy. More importantly, when a guy finally does decide to do something it helps if that action is the right thing - that's the second function of talking it through with sympathetic friends. For the subject at hand, "getting laid" is a pretty short-term solution.

I could go on about happiness in work, in freinds, in recreation... But for now, just one more observation, on Eagle's videos. Naturally, on some level I envy the Shiny Happy People, but I find the Hollow Man more interesting. The unexamined life isn't worth living. Happiness rarely insipres self-examination. Self-examination is worthless if it doesn't lead to renewal and increased happiness... and so it goes. The Purpose of it all? Beats me. Darwin only knows.

 

[simonpro]

Oh good God, out come the pocket calculators and the graphs.

I feel like I've intruded into a group therapy session.


If you're out drinking with your 'mates' and 'had a good time', then came home to sulk, then goddamn you need to get laid.

How's about talking to the women on the other side of the bar? You know, the ones laughing at you?

Generally I've found that if you feel the need to make fun of someone else it shows up an insecurity in your own personality, or something you're unhappy with about yourself.
(f.ex I usually make fun of my mates at football if they screw up, but that's only because I know most are more talented than I)
My subtle analysis would suggest you're worried about appearing geeky and also worried about being introverted.
And considering it's you who is appearing stressed and angry then I'd suggest getting laid would benefit you in particular.

 

[Andy44]

Please don't tell that to a guy I happen to meet now and again. He's always struggled with hard stuff, always done his best and has always been thwarted - by other people. He's past 50 and has had his dreams snatched from him over and over, never by his fault. He's not happy, believe me. Don't play Yoda if you don't have the midichlorians.

Sounds like the Metallica song Unforgiven.

 

[Ghostrider]

Sounds like the Metallica song Unforgiven.

Fitting, the guy looks like Clint Eastwood in "Unforgiven".

 

[Belisarius]

Please don't tell that to a guy I happen to meet now and again. He's always struggled with hard stuff, always done his best and has always been thwarted - by other people.

Me too. And though I don't understand what you're saying about Yoda, if you mean I don't have the right to give that advice, you're wrong. You don't know anything about what I've been through.

 

[Ghostrider]

Me too. And though I don't understand what you're saying about Yoda, if you mean I don't have the right to give that advice, you're wrong. You don't know anything about what I've been through.

What's good for you is not good for everybody, that's my point. What works for you may not work for me, and what works for me may send someone else to Bedlam. Happiness is a very relative thing, and that's why I'll refrain from giving anyone advice to reach "happiness".

 

[Belisarius]

The thread is about that very question. We are discussing what makes us happy or unhappy.

 

[Usonian]

What's good for you is not good for everybody, that's my point. What works for you may not work for me, and what works for me may send someone else to Bedlam. Happiness is a very relative thing, and that's why I'll refrain from giving anyone advice to reach "happiness".

What's good for you is not good for everyone, but it may be good for someone. There is nothing wrong with sharing experience and giving advice (especially when someone is asking for it, as in this case) so long as you grant your listener freedom to accept or reject your advice.

BTW, I find it interesting that FordPrefect has not said anything since his original post. Has he sobered up? Is he now filled with the regrets he anticipated?

Oh, well, I believe Jane Austin once wrote, "For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?"

Aha! Purpose at last!

 

[clive bradbury]

Absolutely the best drunk post ever.

Well, hate to sound like the older guy passing down his deep knowledge (ha! I think I am becoming shallower year by year, not wiser), although I am 51.

For what it is worth:

I too am an atheist, which by definition means that I believe there is no 'point' to life in the higher sense - we just ARE. I actually found that realisation liberating, not in the sense that I became ammoral, but that I become determined to drag every scrap of enjoyment out of life that I can without worrying about things too much.

I think having lived a few decades helps, because when the bad times come, they are still bad, but you have probably dealt with something similar in the past, and got through it. Remember the first time a girl you loved dumped you? End of the world, wasn't it? Yet somehow, here you still are. It's always bad at any age, but if you have been through it before you know that you'll get there again. The first cut truly is the deepest.

On the opposite side of things, I found that life became much more enjoyable when I stopped trying to be TOO happy. Set yourself big targets or ambitions if you must, but be prepared to be disappointed if you do. I now find so much joy and pleasure in the simple things, the here and now, and don't really think that far ahead. Enjoy the Sunday pub quiz, a meal out with family or friends, or just an hour or two sitting in the autumn sun in the garden, as I did this afternoon.

I have been happy single and happy in relationships, but I think the latter is better. If only because you can come home and share the triumphs and disasters of your day. Also, to make any realtionship work you have to comprimise, and think that makes you more easy-going generally, and probably easier to please - happier.

 

[Belisarius]

Truly wise words from Albania, well said Clive. "Liberating" is exactly how I would describe the feeling of abandoning the faith so strongly drilled into me as a kid. Now my "sins" are just the bad things I do, not some hypothetical ancestral virus of badness. Nuff said.

FordPrefect, come back! We still think you're a great guy!

 

[Usonian]

FordPrefect, come back! We still think you're a great guy!

Yes indeed - drunk or sober!

And I cast my votes with the atheists. I held on to agnostisim for many years, but Richard Dawkins pushed me over the edge. I do need to be circumspect in expressing my lack of faith (that is to say, my rejection of fantasy) becasue I reside at the buckle of the American Bible Belt - Billy Graham lives just down the road.

And here is my own touchy feely preference, in the same vain as Shiny Nice People - each to his own.

 

[Chipstone306]

Here is a question to ponder...If us atheist have a leader, does that make us a religion of nonbelievers?

 

[FordPrefect]

Yes indeed - drunk or sober!

:lol:

I'm back...and sober! Sorry for being absent that long, the last days I got back home for getting sleep only. I so much need a break/vacation...

Scott, Belisarius, Flytandem, FlyingSinger and everbody else contributing to this thread, let me express a huge Thank You for sharing your most honest and straight thoughts about this (sometimes pretty complicated) topic. Thanks to your input, this has turned into a really enriching thread for me. As a matter of fact, your amazing feedback have scattered all my worries I would be going to regret posting it!

Lot's of very interesting stuff here. I'll get back to some of your replies tomorrow after having one night with sound sleep again.

Oh, Scott, just to answer one of your questions: I'm turning 37 this December. I've not been married yet.

Keep the thoughts coming!

 

[Belisarius]

Here is a question to ponder...If us atheist have a leader, does that make us a religion of nonbelievers?

Atheists can't really have a leader, but I suppose Dawkins, Dennett and Hitchens are the closest things to it, being those who express these views with most clarity. And Bertrand Russell before them. Maybe our leader could be Immanuel Kant, but I can't understand him.

Anyway, to get back to the point, even having a leader (unlikely, given that atheists tend to be strongly independent and suspicious of forming groups) would make atheism more like a movement than a religion.

According to my Oxford English dictionary, "Religion" is "Action or conduct indicating a belief in, reverence for, and desire to please, a divine ruling power; the exercise or practice of rites or observances implying this".

No Divine Ruling Power, no religion. Who would atheists be trying to please with their rites and observances?

Glad to see ol' FP back and rested.

 

[FordPrefect]

I don't know why I met her. I was missing her. She is cute. She is very clever. She is hot. But, she's together again with her ex-friend.

I'm dating her since summer. Then, after some time I realized I'm just a buddy to her. Once you're there, it's virtually impossible to become more than that to a woman.
Tonight I met her spontaneously. Her boy friend was there as well. I cannot really say he is a bad guy, no, he is funny. So we three are cooking and eating together for dinner, and watch a movie with Eddy Murphy afterwards. I am happy. Happy to see her. Her positive mood floods my mind. There she is right beside me, embraced by her boy friend. That makes me sad. It is really weird, I am happy and sad at the same time. I think I need a doctor.

Or a different cutie which seems so hard to find. I just don't know anything at all...

This has been written after one bottle of good wine while spending a great, but short time with a human being I feel a lot for, driving home on the bycicle through cold drizzle, firing up the PC and loggin in on orbiterforum.com.

I am lucky there is this community. Thank you all.