News Virgin Oceanic

Zachstar

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http://www.virginoceanic.com/

This is going to be QUITE interesting! Exploration and proper utilization of Earth's oceans has taken a back seat for far too long.

We will likely not have serious colonies outside of earth in our lifetimes. And with global climate change effects expected to cause great havoc on the world's food chain and landmass in the next century the oceans are by far the better choice for establishing population centers in the far term.

Who knows how many billions could be properly housed fed and given jobs in ocean communities. I am glad to see folks serious about opening up the eyes of the world to just how different of a world the ocean is the world around us.

The first "dive" will take the craft to the Mariana Trench

http://www.virginoceanic.com/mission/dives/

This time, a sub that flies more like an airplane will allow the solo pilot, Chris Welsh, not only to reach the deepest point on Earth, but then to “fly” along the bottom of the Trench an additional 10 kilometers (nearly 6 mi).
 

Turbinator

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Operating Depth: 37 000 feet = 11.2776 kilometers

This means that this submarine is capable of carrying a person to the deepest depth possible, on our planet. Mariana Trench 35 994 feet = 10.971 kilometers
 

Suzy

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That would be a seriously scary trip! Down there in the darkness with all that tremendous weight of water threatening to crush your ship at the slightest breach in its hull. Makes going into space look easy! (Yes I do have a phobia of deep water...)
 

Ark

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So, what exactly are they building that thing out of? Trieste made it down there with a steel pressure sphere with an extremely thick, tapered porthole.

482px-Bathyscaphe_Trieste_sphere.jpg


How is Virgin going to do it with what looks like an acrylic dome as a pressure hull?
 

T.Neo

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The environment of the deep ocean will really make you understand how "easy" it is to survive in space... as hard as that may be to believe. In space you only need to deal with one atmosphere outward pressure (or even less, if you're willing to compromise). 2000 meters down, you have 200 atmospheres pressing inwards on you, At 10 000 meters, you already have almost 1000 atmospheres of pressure. This thick medium is also sucking away your heat (something that never happens in the perfect insulator of a vacuum), and blocking any light to see, as well as any abundant natural energy source (you have to take energy with you, or somehow rely on heat from volcanic activity).

Earth may be wonderful in comparison to the rest of the cosmos, but the truth is, most of the Earth's surface (the surface of the lithosphere, that is) is covered in a kilometers-thick layer of cold, crushing darkness.

There's a reason only 3% of the seafloor has been explored- people care less about the deep ocean than they do about space! And for good reason.

Ocean colonisation and exploitation is an interesting proposition, but it will almost certainly occur at the surface, rather than in an environment that is more difficult to live in than the surface of Mars.
 

Donamy

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One thing you have is, plenty of water. :thumbup:
 

Urwumpe

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Its a Quartz dome over a titanium/carbon fiber structure - essentially a spaceflight helium pressure tank invented.

The outside hull is just hydrodynamic decor, the inside is likely pretty much like a classic cylindrical pressure vessel.

Still, 100 MPa is a lot of pressure...
 

Zachstar

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Nobody is going to live that far down. Silly when many billions can be properly cared for on the surface.

But under those cities is where the magic can happen. Dangerous yet good jobs going down and working to extract minerals from the sea floor. And to get it up is a mere floating module or tube away not a hours long VASIMR burn and then 6 months before a carefully planned reentry.

For supplying the ever growing human population and maybe getting to the point of preserving areas of earth for the continued growth of other species. The use of the Oceans is a nearly no brainier.

Also radiation. The only way you could possibly insure that residents of a mars or moon colony will not receive sterilizing or fatal doses of radiation is to drill down and house them under a good amount of rock and soil. With that in mind why not do it on earth instead? Far easier and could house billions over centuries.

Space is the "Final Frontier" For a reason. To colonize space will require technology we can only dream of today.
 

Ark

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Its a Quartz dome over a titanium/carbon fiber structure - essentially a spaceflight helium pressure tank invented.

The outside hull is just hydrodynamic decor, the inside is likely pretty much like a classic cylindrical pressure vessel.

Still, 100 MPa is a lot of pressure...

I just find it interesting that the concept videos don't show any recognizable portholes. Like I'm supposed to believe you'll be cruising around at 10,000 meters sitting looking out of a bubble canopy like a fighter pilot?

It would have to be a cylindrical pressure hull, but I just don't see exactly how that fits into their neat little exterior hull. Really, their whole website is short on real technical specs, or real information in general.
 

FADEC

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I think humans are doing enough damage to the little solid surface of this planet already. But also to the oceans and atmosphere as well. The oceans should be safed and not populated.

There is plenty of space, in space :thumbup:

It's a huge world outside of our planet that waits to be discovered. Also, global warming is going to change the oceans as well. Populating the oceans simply is never going to happen. We will discover and populate space instead. If life on this planet becomes uncomfortable due to our exploitation of the nature, it will also affect the oceans.

Just my two cents.
 

T.Neo

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One thing you have is, plenty of water.

Water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink. :p

Its a Quartz dome over a titanium/carbon fiber structure - essentially a spaceflight helium pressure tank invented.

That is true, but I haven't yet seen a spacecraft pressure vessel the size of a house. :lol:

Also radiation. The only way you could possibly insure that residents of a mars or moon colony will not receive sterilizing or fatal doses of radiation is to drill down and house them under a good amount of rock and soil. With that in mind why not do it on earth instead? Far easier and could house billions over centuries.

Radiation does not mean you have to dig halfway through the lithosphere- around 1-5 meters of regolith will do fine.

And that regolith will not crush you like water at the bottom of the ocean will- 5 cubic meters of 3 g/cm^3 material over a 1 meter area produces roughly 55 kPa on Mars, and even less on the Moon.

But under those cities is where the magic can happen. Dangerous yet good jobs going down and working to extract minerals from the sea floor. And to get it up is a mere floating module or tube away not a hours long VASIMR burn and then 6 months before a carefully planned reentry.

Hours long? Must be a pretty strong VASIMR...

I never suggested trying to mine interplanetary resources (even mining very valuable resources is difficult with modern or near-future abilities), and indeed, it only really makes sense to utilise bulk resources on a planetary scale, at most- unless you have some sort of unfortunate disabundance in a certain element.

There are a lot of problems with deep ocean mining. For one, it's at the bottom of the deep ocean. Already operating there is more difficult than operating in space. Then you have ecological issues; the real rich deposits are at volcanic vents, which are coincidentally teeming with life. A lot of people would get up in arms about destroying sites like those. Elsewhere on the ocean floor, mineral composition might be pretty mundane (flat areas could be covered in deep layers of organic material too- the remains of plankton and other aquatic creatures- but it is important to remember that the seafloor is by no means a featureless flat plain- it might be pretty boring close up, but on a planetary scale, it's quite striking down there). Maybe you could mine that organic material for... something, but it wouldn't help much if it was covering a layer of something more useful.

And silt down there doesn't settle or blow away easily because currents are quite weak, so you'd need... I dunno... mega gigantic industrial aquafans to make sure you didn't get blinded by clouds of silt. And of course, mucking about on the seafloor could have unintended consequences for the ocean system in general.

Still, it has advantages- there must be a really huge amount of resources down there. The difficulty is it's very hard to work in that environment. I'd say it'd be easier to mine resources on Mars; easier to mine there than it would be on the deep seafloor, but of course much harder to ship those resources back to where they're needed (unless they're needed on Mars, in which case)...

For supplying the ever growing human population and maybe getting to the point of preserving areas of earth for the continued growth of other species. The use of the Oceans is a nearly no brainier.

Before we go any further I think we need to fix the problem that's going on right now with population growth, and that is bad patterns happening in bad environments. We need to get rid of those bad societal environments so we can have better patterns- not women having on average, 7-8 children, with high infant and child mortality rates, poor reproductive and children's rights, and a generally bad standard of living. Improve things, improve economics and education in those areas, and you can hope for fewer children being raised far, far better. Which is pretty much the core concept of the human life strategy: have few offspring, but invest in them greatly.

Space is the "Final Frontier" For a reason. To colonize space will require technology we can only dream of today.

Our understanding of space is far more advanced than our understanding of the deep ocean, we've operated for thousands and thousands of hours in space whereas only few people have been on short, limited trips to the deep seafloor, and it is already an environment that is easier to operate in (even though it's harder to get to).

I could say the same of the equipment needed to mine the deep sea-floor...

Why would they make a website for something they wont do? That would really harm Virgins image.

Maybe it's a joke. Remember Virgle?

I doubt it is, but still... it would be nice if they told us enough that the whole thing would make sense.

I think humans are doing enough damage to the little solid surface of this planet already. But also to the oceans and atmosphere as well. The oceans should be safed and not populated.

I think the whole point of ocean population is to minimise ecological impact.

The oceans are big and only a small part of them is bio-rich... the continents are smaller and we're encroaching on the bio-rich areas that are left (and neglecting the bio-poor areas for good reason). Of course nobody is planning to... demolish the Great Barrier Reef, or dump crude oil in whale breeding sites, or something like that...

There is plenty of space, in space

There is also plenty of space in the oceans... the surface of the ocean is an environment which is far more hospitable than space, far easier to visit, and far more advantageous in the near-term. And it's an environment that we've been traversing for thousands of years, an environment that we travel over regularly and exploit for trade and industry... it is certainly something that must be looked at.
 

Zachstar

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I think humans are doing enough damage to the little solid surface of this planet already. But also to the oceans and atmosphere as well. The oceans should be safed and not populated.

There is plenty of space, in space :thumbup:

It's a huge world outside of our planet that waits to be discovered. Also, global warming is going to change the oceans as well. Populating the oceans simply is never going to happen. We will discover and populate space instead. If life on this planet becomes uncomfortable due to our exploitation of the nature, it will also affect the oceans.

Just my two cents.

Um populating the oceans WILL happen and HAS happened already with small populations in various man made objects 24/7

The reason to populate the oceans is to establish communities away from the landmass and to use economic benefits from being out there. Discover and populate space? have any idea how much that will cost even if the magic tooth fairy delivers a magic SSTO? Completely out of the realm of population billions for a very long time. Completely useless to have a colony more than some thousands on mars. Same with the moon.

You establish a proper ocean city design and it will be able to withstand even the most extreme of conditions that climate change can bring. And house many thousands of people. Use of seawater minerals and algae growing will be an assurance against starvation if the already highly productive use of hydroponics fails. And if all else fails return to land is a flight or boatride away not days or months in high radiation and potential airless environment. Fish? Easily maintained operations under the city and because it moves about (Not having any means of propulsion would be dumb due to the risks of drifting) it wont cause the issues fixed location fish farms cause.

Food production is just one of the countless advantages of future society choosing the oceans for future growth instead of space on a massive scale. Again I am glad Branson is bringing attention back to the future home of many millions if not billions.
 

FADEC

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You establish a proper ocean city design and it will be able to withstand even the most extreme of conditions that climate change can bring.

The most extreme of conditions that a climate change can bring could wipe us out.

At least Titanic was unsinkable... (and Fukushima was safe)
 

Zachstar

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If you are speaking of Earth turning into some kind of Venus kind of crap that is well beyond even the most extreme of change. Real Extreme is so much loss of land possible to farm on to deserts and oceans that the traditional methods of providing food to the public just wont work making rural populations moot.
 

T.Neo

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have any idea how much that will cost even if the magic tooth fairy delivers a magic SSTO? Completely out of the realm of population billions for a very long time. Completely useless to have a colony more than some thousands on mars. Same with the moon.

Nobody talked about shipping billions offworld. And a colony of say, 10 000 off of the Earth would be far from useless; it'd just be so incredibly expensive that returns from it wouldn't be particularly attractive.

Use of seawater minerals and algae growing will be an assurance against starvation if the already highly productive use of hydroponics fails.

So they'd all subsist on Soylent Soy? I have to say, that is rather boring... and runs the colonists the risk of developing gout or going crazy from eating only green slime...

And if all else fails return to land is a flight or boatride away not days or months in high radiation and potential airless environment.

You almost speak of spacecraft as being as leaky as badly made pool toys and interplanetary space as being as radioactive as the inside of the Fukushima reactor. :p

Fish? Easily maintained operations under the city and because it moves about (Not having any means of propulsion would be dumb due to the risks of drifting) it wont cause the issues fixed location fish farms cause.

A drifting fish-farm would be a good idea, but trying to move... a city over a great distance, under power, would be pretty difficult.

Then again, it might be easier if you used wind or water currents, which will move you along naturally anyway, if you're not anchored... after all, there was an era where ocean travel was almost entirely dependant on wind power.

If you are speaking of Earth turning into some kind of Venus kind of crap that is well beyond even the most extreme of change. Real Extreme is so much loss of land possible to farm on to deserts and oceans that the traditional methods of providing food to the public just wont work making rural populations moot.

Yeah. The worst case is probably a warming-induced positive feedback release of methane from bogs, permafrost, and even the seafloor, leading to Permian-like warming, ocean anoxia, and a global hydrogen sulfide event- which would be devastating to the global ecology (The Permian-Triassic extinction event- volcanically motivated- killed off 75% of life on land and a staggering 90% of life in the oceans- a truely horrible event).

And even that would have difficulty killing us off- as organisms go, we're extremely adaptable- even though we are highly complex organisms, our adaptability rivals that of some of the simplest life.

I wouldn't see the sea-level rise as being a problem in terms of stealing land (sea level rise would be on the order of 110 meters at most). That might take out 20% of our land, but on a stable warm Earth, it'd be more than made up for by the increase in fertile, usable land. The problems are that this 20% is where billions of people live (there are a lot of human settlements near water, because it is advantageous to be near bodies of water for multiple reasons), and that the problem is climate change, and with the polar ice having a thermal 'momentum', a stable hothouse Earth could be many thousands of years away even if CO2 levels doubled tomorrow.

Where changing climate or weather patterns could be problematic on land, a floating city would just have to change its geographic location if it wasn't in a very good region for the things it is trying to achieve. If geopolitics or economics changed, it could relocate... or could travel to regions where work is needed. It's quite a versatile concept.
 
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Urwumpe

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At least Titanic was unsinkable...

Be precise: Nobody claimed before it sank, that it was unsinkable. Especially not its owners and its constructors. They just said correctly that the Titanic was safer than other ships of that time. Which was true - it sank because its safety design was overwhelmed, the damage was bigger as the design permitted.

The Titanic even had more lifeboats as it was standard back then.
 

FADEC

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Be precise: Nobody claimed before it sank, that it was unsinkable.

Nobody claimed but certain people thought it was, like the vice president of the White Star Line for example.

http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/browser/1912/04/16/100530234/article-view

it sank because its safety design was overwhelmed, the damage was bigger as the design permitted.

Otherwise she would not sink I guess ;)

A 100% safe and perfect thing or place does not exist. A ocean city design, withstanding the most extreme conditions that climate change can bring, might be perfect on paper though.

The Titanic even had more lifeboats as it was standard back then.

But sadly still too less concerning the accident and also way less as previously planned.
 
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