Vessel The dumbest vessel in history. And how to do it myself.

WolfAngriff

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Dear community,

This time, i'm realy asking something for myself. But it's not only for playing all alone, it could be part of a wider project which could become ( i think ) a cool ( and ambitious ) addon. I need one first vessel as described below, because i have to check things before going further on this idea. If it's strong enough, i'll open a dedicated thread. If you want to know more, please PM me.

What's needed ? A HUGE (at least 10 km wide) vessel, with no texture, no engine, no RCS, no special HUD, no animation, no dll, no docking port. It's a basic invisible tank. It's shape has no consequence, it can be a sphere or anything else. Perhaps it doesn't even need a mesh ? For now, a fuel tank is enough. It must be detected at least by Docking MFD, SyncOrbit MFD, AlignPlane MFD, IMFD, and Fuel Transfer MFD. That's for the very basic version. Reading this, you can understand how low is my knowledge about creating things for Orbiter :rolleyes:.

I don't know if Orbiter gives a mass/volume ratio for fuel, or if it's freely configurable. I'd like to have a very low mass for that vessel. Later, i'd like to fill this tank with something else, but that's another story. But now fuel is good enough, and the low mass is not fully requiered for the first testings i'll do.

Of course i'd be glad if someone could do such a vessel, but i'll need to learn how to do such a vessel by myself, because if things work as i expect, i'll need many vessels like that, with different volumes, mass. So, if someone's patient enough to explain me, or tell me where are the tutos, it'll be a good thing. Please be aware i'm not rich enough to buy a 3D software, and i don't plan to become a 3D developer.

Thanx for your attention. I know that it looks like a very stupid request, but the project behind is realy serious. Again, i won't speak about it on the forum before checking the idea's strength.

:cheers:
 

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spaceship Conrad Haas (1551) and a rocket to it
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MaxBuzz

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concept of a 'rocket cat' and dove (Franz Helm 1520s)
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WolfAngriff

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Anim8or is free and easy to use:)
I remember how people were fighting against each other about Anim8tor and Blender on forums. Some were litteraly raging against those who prefered one software than the other. :LOL: But do i realy need to build a mesh for such a vessel ?

@MaxBuzz : thanx for the ideas, but those vessels will be too much complicated for me ! :cheers:
 

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Of course i'd be glad if someone could do such a vessel, but i'll need to learn how to do such a vessel by myself, because if things work as i expect, i'll need many vessels like that, with different volumes, mass. So, if someone's patient enough to explain me, or tell me where are the tutos, it'll be a good thing. Please be aware i'm not rich enough to buy a 3D software, and i don't plan to become a 3D developer.
A simple vessel can be made with just a .cfg file and absolutely C++ free, see "Doc\OrbiterConfig.pdf"
On another note, I taught myself C++ by opening up the Shuttle-PB example in orbiter and changing stuff.
If you want to get a taste of C++, the API documents in "Orbitersdk\doc\" are the go-to source.

I remember how people were fighting against each other about Anim8tor and Blender on forums. Some were litteraly raging against those who prefered one software than the other.
Here it is in a nutshell: Both are free.
  • Blender is really powerful and can do almost anything, but it is an absolute beast to learn.
  • Anim8or is easy to use, but pretty limited in my opinion.

But do i realy need to build a mesh for such a vessel ?
Yes.
 

WolfAngriff

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A simple vessel can be made with just a .cfg file and absolutely C++ free, see "Doc\OrbiterConfig.pdf"
On another note, I taught myself C++ by opening up the Shuttle-PB example in orbiter and changing stuff.
If you want to get a taste of C++, the API documents in "Orbitersdk\doc\" are the go-to source.


Here it is in a nutshell: Both are free.
  • Blender is really powerful and can do almost anything, but it is an absolute beast to learn.
  • Anim8or is easy to use, but pretty limited in my opinion.


Yes.
So, i need to create a .cfg file. Easy, i've already made a MS2015 launcher from an old addon and it worked. I can take something already existing and torture it until it works as i want. No authorization to ask, the scenario i'll build will never be published. Then i have to create a mesh with Anim8tor. Then the .cfg file "calls" the mesh. But before that, the mesh must be integrated in Orbiter. OK, i'll go to the tutorials.

Speaking about C++, if things go as i expect, i'll need it, and not for something easy. That's why i have to prebuild something reliable and convincing, because i'll need help then. But well, for now it's like a Sci-Fi scenario, i'm very far from that ! The vessel described here is the very first step to make it possible. That's why it's very important, even if it looks... dumb. o_O

Thanks ! ;)
 
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jedidia

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But before that, the mesh must be integrated in Orbiter
If by integration you mean "dump it in the right folder", then yes, but that's stretching the term a bit... :LOL:
Anim8or has .msh export, I think, so it's certainly the right tool to use for this job. In blender you'll be wasting several evenings just to figure out how to scale a box to your desired dimensions and especially export it to orbiter...

All the rest you need should be documented in the pdf file that max-q mentioned.
 
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WolfAngriff

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If by integration you mean "dump it in the right folder", then yes, but that's stretching the term a bit... :LOL:
Anim8or has .msh export, I think, so it's certainly the right tool to use for this job. In blender you'll be wasting several evenings just to figure out how to scale a box to your desired dimensions and especially export it to orbiter...

All the rest you need should be documented in the cfg file that max-q mentioned.
Hmmm... I think i'm heading to some headache... Orbiter should be delivered with a box of painkillers. Maybe UCSO cargo ? :unsure:
Thanx for your kind advices.
 

Urwumpe

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Anim8or has .msh export, I think, so it's certainly the right tool to use for this job. In blender you'll be wasting several evenings just to figure out how to scale a box to your desired dimensions and especially export it to orbiter...

The Anim8or msh export was an extension script that I had written years ago, it does not support Orbiter natively. It supports exporting to .obj
 

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Hmmm... I think i'm heading to some headache... Orbiter should be delivered with a box of painkillers. Maybe UCSO cargo ? :unsure:
Thanx for your kind advices.

Sadly, there is no "Spacecraft Designer" tool for Orbiter, but even then, spaceflight will be hard. ;)
 

WolfAngriff

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Sadly, there is no "Spacecraft Designer" tool for Orbiter, but even then, spaceflight will be hard. ;)
Yes, there's a lot to learn on the road ! If things go as they should, i'll have much to know about spaceflight too. Those damn' slingshots... :mad: ;)
But hey, that's why we love Orbiter ! :cheers:
 

WolfAngriff

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OK, Anim8tor downloaded and installed. Right now, i'll push some weight for one hour, and then i become developer. Easy ! :cool:
 

Thunder Chicken

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If you're looking to make a simple or negligible mesh, the mesh format is provided in the OrbiterSDK/Doc/3DModel.pdf document. You could make a tetrahedra with just a few lines of text, no Blender or anything else needed.
 

WolfAngriff

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If you're looking to make a simple or negligible mesh, the mesh format is provided in the OrbiterSDK/Doc/3DModel.pdf document. You could make a tetrahedra with just a few lines of text, no Blender or anything else needed.
Oh ! That's interesting ! Yes, the mesh is clearly negligible, as the vessel has to be invisible. I call this a vessel because this is how it 's called in Orbiter. All true vessels, launchers, payloads, etc, i'd need already exist. Except those vessels i need to create, and later i hope something with C++ ( a program and, maybe, a dedicated MFD ?) , the final addon will be scenarios with required addons and a strong doc. I'll have a look at this .pdf, thanx for the advice !
 

jedidia

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You could make a tetrahedra with just a few lines of text, no Blender or anything else needed.
I was thinking about suggesting that, but I'm not sure if you have to provide normals, which would make this a bit complicated.
 

Thunder Chicken

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I was thinking about suggesting that, but I'm not sure if you have to provide normals, which would make this a bit complicated.
You don't have to provide vertex normals, but you do need to maintain the left handed convention.

I've attached a minimal add on that puts a tetrahedra mesh into orbit. There is something wrong with it but I'm not sure what the issue is, but this would be a pretty good starting point for OP.

EDIT It's actually a pyramid because I didn't want to do math to make a perfect tetrahedra, but already named everything, but whatever.
 

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WolfAngriff

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I was thinking about suggesting that, but I'm not sure if you have to provide normals, which would make this a bit complicated.
A bit complicated ? :LOL: I've opened the .pdf. And opened some mesh files as to get examples, and tried to find clues. o_O And came to the conclusion that i'll use Anim8tor. :LOL:

If only doing such a simple mesh is that complicated to understand, i'll have to bet on my life expectancy ! :LOL: I guess how interesting it must be, and I know the true magic is there. But, as stated before, I'll have to do several vessels like that and I need to find the simplyest way to do so. I can't escape from those .cfg, .ini, modules, etc. But for now, I need something less abstract than those lines of code. Or to find a very basic example to begin with.

I roughly know how to create a simple 3D model, because i've made 3D drawings in the past, for industrial purposes. But I have no experience with coding, except simple things with already existing files. But hey, i'm not saying never, i'm just saying not now. ;)

@Thunder Chicken : OooOops, you posted while i was writing. That coul be what i'm needing !
 
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