The Atheist thread

[Juanelm]

Just thought it would be good to create a topic for people who wished to do so to just identify themselves as atheists. We, like every human, feel the need get to know other people that think like us, and that share our beliefs. I think the level of atheism in this forum might be a little higher than the average forum (then again I might be wrong). Anyone out there?

 

[Thunder Chicken]

How about agnostics? Are they allowed here or do I need to start a new thread?

Seriously, a good discussion of philosophy and religion can be interesting, but it can be a touchy subject. Good luck.

 

[agentgonzo]

I think the level of atheism in this forum might be a little higher than the average forum (then again I might be wrong). Anyone out there?

I would very much doubt that. This is a science based forum by nature, but I know lots of people who are scientists by nature, yet still very religious - My brother has a Master's degree in theoretical physics and is a preist. In a lot of cases, people's faith in religion can bolster their scientific understanding/reasoning and vice versa.

I'll keep my religious views to myself, where they belong.

 

[GregBurch]

I'm an atheist. On the one hand, I see nothing in the world as it is that requires the hypothesis of supernatural beings. On the other hand, there seem to be many clear natural, historical and social explanations for all the phenomena, practices and doctrines that are called "religion." Theism is a natural phenomenon, god is not.

 

[Andy44]

I find it mildly amusing how atheists feel the need to tell everyone about atheism. Almost like (dare I say it?)...preaching. How many Lutherans feel the need to start their own threads?

Perhaps it stems from the atheists' feeling that they are outnumbered in society and need to stick together as a minority. It wasn't that long ago that declaring atheism got you in hot water.

Another thing I find interesting about atheists is that many of them assume that people interested in science must be logical-minded and therefore also atheist. As a person who attended a religious school growing up I noticed similar assumptions made by adherents to that religion; ie. they couldn't understand why others didn't see it their way. I suspect that this is human nature and has less to do with logic than atheists suspect. Humans are amazing at their ability to stick to a belief system regardless of the logic behind it, so long as they feel comfortable with the arrangement. People who do not share this belief system are seen as threats to this cozy arrangement (and history shows that they often are!).

For those of you who wonder what others think of atheists, I used to think of them as people who were, well, scary. Not because of what the priest told me, but because it seemed to me very odd that someone would choose such a...soulless?...belief system. For a christian, morality is based on what happens to you after you die. Without the threat of damnation, what's to stop the atheist from just doing whatever he wants, raping and killing, etc.? Worked for Stalin, right? He managed to die of old age after doing whatever he wanted, apparently without fear of punishment.

Now I am a little older (no, I am not an atheist, I am a "don't care") and well-read, and I understand how a system of morality can exist without theism, at least in non-emergencies, but the reason for the above paragraph is to tell you what you are up against. Most people are not well-read or interested in Ayn Rand's ethics and what-have-you. They will see you as near-robots with no souls and empty spiritual lives. Good luck overcoming that.

 

[GregBurch]

I find it mildly amusing how atheists feel the need to tell everyone about atheism. Almost like (dare I say it?)...preaching. How many Lutherans feel the need to start their own threads?

Perhaps it stems from the atheists' feeling that they are outnumbered in society and need to stick together as a minority. It wasn't that long ago that declaring atheism got you in hot water.

Another thing I find interesting about atheists is that many of them assume that people interested in science must be logical-minded and therefore also atheist. As a person who attended a religious school growing up I noticed similar assumptions made by adherents to that religion; ie. they couldn't understand why others didn't see it their way. I suspect that this is human nature and has less to do with logic than atheists suspect. Humans are amazing at their ability to stick to a belief system regardless of the logic behind it, so long as they feel comfortable with the arrangement. People who do not share this belief system are seen as threats to this cozy arrangement (and history shows that they often are!).

For those of you who wonder what others think of atheists, I used to think of them as people who were, well, scary. Not because of what the priest told me, but because it seemed to me very odd that someone would choose such a...soulless?...belief system. For a christian, morality is based on what happens to you after you die. Without the threat of damnation, what's to stop the atheist from just doing whatever he wants, raping and killing, etc.? Worked for Stalin, right? He managed to die of old age after doing whatever he wanted, apparently without fear of punishment.

Now I am a little older (no, I am not an atheist, I am a "don't care") and well-read, and I understand how a system of morality can exist without theism, at least in non-emergencies, but the reason for the above paragraph is to tell you what you are up against. Most people are not well-read or interested in Ayn Rand's ethics and what-have-you. They will see you as near-robots with no souls and empty spiritual lives. Good luck overcoming that.

I'm perfectly familiar with all of this, having lived in the buckle of the Bible Belt much of my adult life. I used to be a much more "militant" atheist, thinking that the liberation of people from superstition could only be a good thing. As I've gotten older, I'm much less willing to spend time communicating with people about these things, especially when the chance of convincing people is so slim. I've also come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people will live happier, more moral lives if they have a supernatural sanction for their moral and social values.

However, I continue to be galled when religious -- or other -- people say that "atheism is just another religion." It's not. It is the result of applying rigorous skepticism to claims of the supernatural. The absence of belief is not the same as belief.

 

[Piper]

I am an atheist, and I wouldn't be surprised if the level of atheism is higher in this forum then normal, HOWEVER, I'm not big on the idea of having an "Atheist Thread" any more then I am about seeing a "Muslim Thread" or a "Scientologist Thread", simply because it gives the wrong impression of atheists (as Andy44 said, it sounds a bit like preaching), and it gives the mindset of "us vs. them." I wouldn't even recommend a thread dedicated to single scientific theory such as a "String Theorist Thread," however I don't have a problem with a thread to DISCUSS a theory (including a thread discussing whether or not a god exists).

Besides, this forum is ultimately about Orbiter, which is grounded in science (yes, this sub-forum is off-topic, but I mean the whole forum in general), and science is for everybody.

 

[Andy44]

It is the result of applying rigorous skepticism to claims of the supernatural. The absence of belief is not the same as belief.

I agree, and I didn't mean to imply that atheism is a religion. Only that those who abide by it often behave with some religious-type characteristics.

It's similar to the argument about whether libertarianism, or classical liberalism, or whatever you choose to call it, is an "ideology" or not. As a libertarian, I detest ideologies but I understand when people refer to clasical liberalism as an ideolgy, because, well, I guess they don't know what else to call it. And in the end, it does require you to make certain assumptions about human nature, I suppose.

As for skepticism, I think you found the best word to describe atheism. I think a healthy dose of skepticism should be applied to everything you see or hear, and of course skepticism is the beginning of rational thought and analysis. I think a "skepticism thread" would be a fun thread.

 

[Juanelm]

I would very much doubt that. This is a science based forum by nature, but I know lots of people who are scientists by nature, yet still very religious - My brother has a Master's degree in theoretical physics and is a preist. In a lot of cases, people's faith in religion can bolster their scientific understanding/reasoning and vice versa.

I'll keep my religious views to myself, where they belong.

That might well be. My thought that maybe there were more atheists on this forum was based on the impression I have gotten over the past years, and some polls on the old forum, but maybe I'm wrong on that. If it were true, it would be interesting to know why that is.

I find it mildly amusing how atheists feel the need to tell everyone about atheism. Almost like (dare I say it?)...preaching. How many Lutherans feel the need to start their own threads?

Perhaps it stems from the atheists' feeling that they are outnumbered in society and need to stick together as a minority. It wasn't that long ago that declaring atheism got you in hot water.

I think its a good comparison with preaching, at least in my case. I think some preachers feel the happyness their beliefs bring them, and they want to share that intense feeling with others. For myself, at least, is very similar, I want other people to feel, to experience an incredible feeling of joy which I percieve some are missing out on. The preaching part is not so much about being right or wrong, its more about wanting to share with others the happiness and joy one feels. Words cannot do justice to what I'm trying to say.

But the purpose of this thread was not for the "preaching" part, but for the connecting part; that "wanting to stick together as a minority", you talk about. But then again, atheists tend to be pretty independent and not all feel this.

Now I am a little older (no, I am not an atheist, I am a "don't care") and well-read, and I understand how a system of morality can exist without theism, at least in non-emergencies, but the reason for the above paragraph is to tell you what you are up against. Most people are not well-read or interested in Ayn Rand's ethics and what-have-you. They will see you as near-robots with no souls and empty spiritual lives. Good luck overcoming that.

I find Ayn Rand's ideas on morality amazing. I don't agree with her in some parts, but others are far ahead in our time. But I believe they in fact show that morality is independent of religion.

I am an atheist, and I wouldn't be surprised if the level of atheism is higher in this forum then normal, HOWEVER, I'm not big on the idea of having an "Atheist Thread" any more then I am about seeing a "Muslim Thread" or a "Scientologist Thread", simply because it gives the wrong impression of atheists (as Andy44 said, it sounds a bit like preaching), and it gives the mindset of "us vs. them." I wouldn't even recommend a thread dedicated to single scientific theory such as a "String Theorist Thread," however I don't have a problem with a thread to DISCUSS a theory (including a thread discussing whether or not a god exists).

Besides, this forum is ultimately about Orbiter, which is grounded in science (yes, this sub-forum is off-topic, but I mean the whole forum in general), and science is for everybody.

Hmm it shoudl'nt sound like preaching because the statement on the first post defines the intention of the thread as having nothing to do with preaching. Maybe it sounds like preaching because every time a post appears with the word "atheist" it includes preaching. But you have a good point in saying that it may create the "us vs them" mindset.

How about agnostics? Are they allowed here or do I need to start a new thread?

That counts! :lol:

 

[unknown_orbiter]

"Science without religion is dull. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein
Yes I am an atheist, yet this quote reveals how maybe we should all just let a little bit of our sense from us and believe in something unexplainable for a while. Take anarchists for example: These days all of the young neo-atheists listen to the punk rock and dress in "f**k the world" shirts. Yet true anarchy is the belief that the people have the right to govern themselves, they they have the RESPONSIBILITY to govern themselves completely without intervention by some higher power. The same can be applied here. Atheism is the disbelief in divine powers. Yet it is shoved into the faces of the religious and richeous with a shade of contempt. I keep my atheism to myself. If someone wishes to discuss religion with me I will listen and use their statements to determine if my own beliefs are correct. Personally I find that religion has caused more than its share of death and destruction and ignorance throughout history. This does not apply to everyone, so I am not saying that all religious figures are ignorant. I respect their beliefs and expect the same in return.

 

[Tachyon]

I beleave in pan-theism. it will all pan out in the end. and when the lights go out, you'll know who was right and who was wrong.

 

[Star explorer]

wait isen't there somewhere in the rules that says we can't talk about religion on the forum. i really think this thread should be closed. this is about orbiter, we don't need to know about people's religion.

 

[tblaxland]

wait isen't there somewhere in the rules that says we can't talk about religion on the forum. i really think this thread should be closed. this is about orbiter, we don't need to know about people's religion.

From the rules:

You may not insult members based on their religion, ...

I don't think anyone in this thread has insulted anyone else because of their religion (or non-religion, as the case may be).

 

[SiberianTiger]

Admitting I'm an atheist is nearly a sedition today... So I'm in.

 

[RichWall]

I believe in pan-theism. it will all pan out in the end. and when the lights go out, you'll know who was right and who was wrong.

I like it, original

I learned recently that term "atheist" could be confusing or even out dated.

1) atheist = non-theist ?
and/or
2) atheist = anti-theist ?
and/or
3) atheist = a theist ?

Thank God for spell check or I'd be lost.

 

[Hielor]

However, I continue to be galled when religious -- or other -- people say that "atheism is just another religion." It's not. It is the result of applying rigorous skepticism to claims of the supernatural. The absence of belief is not the same as belief.

The absence of belief is agnosticism. Atheism is the belief that there is not a god.

 

[tblaxland]

The absence of belief is agnosticism. Atheism is the belief that there is not a god.

Mmm, my understanding of these philosophies is thus:

Pretend we have a fence. One side are the theists (those who believe in God(s) ), on the other side are atheists (those who don't believe in God(s) ). Agnostics are on the fence.

 

[TSPenguin]

I don't know.
That is the simple answer I have for all religion related questions.

Is there a god? Does he have a beard? Is it Alanis Morisette?
I don't know.
What happens when I die?
I don't know.

I believe in that everything is possible. There might be a god, there might not be. We might be stuck in the matrix or I might be part of your dream.

I am not inclined to accept anyones believes or creeds as my own, as I see no possible way anyone else could know either.
Suffice to say, there is much more to religion than just the word itself. Religion gives people a common ground, to work together, to live together and to fight together.
They give people a sense of belonging and they give people answers that they can't obtain themselves.
Unfortunately that led to organized religion. With organization comes rank and power and there always where and probably always will be people who strive for power. Either just to have it or to use that power in order to achieve something.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."


What troubles me most is not the misuse of religion, it is the point where religion becomes so important and serves as an end in itself that it is more valuable than life. When people harm other people just because they think something different.

I always have and always will respect anyones religion. Keep in mind that this is on a 'per person' basis. Generalisations about people are always dangerous.

 

[Hielor]

Mmm, my understanding of these philosophies is thus:

Pretend we have a fence. One side are the theists (those who believe in God(s) ), on the other side are atheists (those who don't believe in God(s) ). Agnostics are on the fence.

Atheists still made a choice to go to a side of the fence, and from where the agnostic is sitting, the atheistic side isn't really any better than the theistic side: it's still claiming to know more about the world than the person actually does.

 

[Artlav]

There seems to be two kinds of atheists -
one kind that does not believe in celestial supervisor and look for big answers around them,
another kind that are against religion and any form of god, seeking ways to convince others of it.

And second kind is a religion, having the main sign of one - "my truth is better than your truth" attitude.

So, if i'm right this thread is going to inflame soon.