# [Speculation] Limit to singularity size inside the black hole.

#### Loru

##### Retired Staff Member
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For last few months I've been wondering if there is limit to how matter/energy can be compressed inside black hole.

Current understanding (AFAIK) says that when you you pass Chandesekar's limit and Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff limit there is no force stopping the colapse. However question is: Does Pauli's exlusion applies to unbound quarks directly?? If so, that maybe under event horizon we have an object consisting only of quarks (massive neutron analogue?) held stable by gravity.

What do you think?? (If my train of thought is wrong please point it out)

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#### Urwumpe

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Well, one problem I see: How do you calculate density in a black hole? does it have a volume? It obviously has mass.

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=219

And as you can see in that simple formula, the density decreases with increasing black hole mass, while before the black hole stage, the density increases with mass.

#### Loru

##### Retired Staff Member
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For entirety of black hole (taking volume of event horizon), yes - more mass = less density. However I'm curious what is the state of matter inside it. Can be prevented from further collapse (even inside event horizon)??

If Pauli's exlusion applies to unbound quarks directly there may be somehing like this:

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#### Urwumpe

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For entirety of black hole (taking volume of event herizon), yes - more mass = less density. However I'm curious what is the state of matter inside it. Can be prevented from further collapse (even inside event horizon)??

What matter inside it?

"A black hole is a region of spacetime from which gravity prevents anything, including light, from escaping."

There is, from our universes point of view, no matter inside the black hole. Everything that we interact with, is at the surface of its event horizon.

The singularity inside the event horizon, has always zero volume, it is either a single point or a zero-thickness ring.

#### Linguofreak

##### Well-known member
For last few months I've been wondering if there is limit to how matter/energy can be compressed inside black hole.

Current understanding (AFAIK) says that when you you pass Chandesekar's limit and Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff limit there is no force stopping the colapse. However question is: Does Pauli's exlusion applies to unbound quarks directly?? If so, that maybe under event horizon we have an object consisting only of quarks (massive neutron analogue?) held stable by gravity.

The Pauli exclusion principle does apply to quarks, and it has been theorized that you may get a star composed of quark degenerate matter *before* an object passes within its own event horizon. But if you pile on more mass, eventually even quark degeneracy won't be able to hold up.

If an event horizon ever actually forms, there's really no avoiding a singularity. Inside the horizon time and the radial coordinate have switched position, and so from the point of view of matter inside the horizon, space itself is inexorably shrinking, or, in other words, the big crunch is occuring. The singularity is, from that point of view, the end of time.

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Ok guys. Thanks.

#### Urwumpe

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One interesting question though is: How long would the information of particles passing the event horizon travel to reach the singularity at all?

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