Poll Spacecraft3 vessels in other simulators?

Your SC3 add-ons in Spaceway and other simulators?


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Artlav

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Sometimes, even though you were looking straight at something, you didn't realize what you were looking at until you happened to think exactly the right thought.

Some time ago i (and Face) made an open-source reimplementation of spacecraft3.dll - Genericvessel.
Not so long ago i realized that the way it is made meant that i had support for SC3 add-ons in my Spaceway simulator.

Even more, the way it is made and the fact that it's open source means that it can one day be easily ported to other simulators - Space Engine, you name it.

So, there is a question to add-on developers who made SC3 add-ons:
How do you feel about your add-ons being used in Spaceway or other non-Orbiter space flight simulators?
Not being distributed with one, just now you can install and fly them in another simulator.

Objections?
Implicit, non-obvious author rights/distribution issues?
Things to take care of?

sw-sc3-8.jpg

sw-sc3-9.jpg

sw-sc3-7.jpg
 

Loru

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I haven't developed any spacecraft3 add-ons, however I think, that from legal point of view (assuming spacecraft3 add-on doesn't need to be modified) SpaceWay can be treated just as another orbiter graphic client.

I think most (if not all) developers would be glad to have another platform to show their work.
 

Donamy

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would the animations also ?
 

Face

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It would be interesting to hear the rationales of those voting with No. While I respect the opinion, I'm curious why an add-on developer does not want wider audience. Support considerations, maybe?
 

Artlav

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would the animations also ?
...also work?
Sure, as good as they do in OGLAClient and genericvessel.

Here is a quick demo video to answer potential questions.

It would be interesting to hear the rationales of those voting with No.
Yes, could you please do?
One of the reasons i asked the question is to find out why not.
 

Donamy

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Amazing !!:salute:
 

Spacethingy

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Did I really just see a Swift fly through a inter-planetary portal?! *happy sigh of admiration*

I'd happily vote yes, but I didn't as I've never actually made a SC3 vessel. Had I done so, I'd love to see my creation utilized in more than one sim.

Out of interest, does the Orbithangar license/TOC/EULA/whatever have any bearing on this?
 

Artlav

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Did I really just see a Swift fly through a inter-planetary portal?! *happy sigh of admiration*
No, you did not.
It was not an interplanetary portal, it was an interstellar stargate.
The change of the amount of suns and sunlight colour should be big enough clues.

The origin point is the Homestead system in The Local Bubble on the left, the destination is a frozen world in a binary system 300 light years to the right:
sw_gate.jpg


Out of interest, does the Orbithangar license/TOC/EULA/whatever have any bearing on this?
Not that i can find.
It's a site dedicated to storing the Orbiter add-ons forever, there is no mentions on how the add-ons being stored are to be used.
 

Enjo

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It would be a matter of time until some hacker figured out this portability potential. If it's one of the Generic Vessel author, then it's even better.

And while I think that it's very polite that you are asking about it, I can't imagine WINE authors asking each Windows application's author for permission to run their apps on WINE environment.
 
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4throck

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I voted "others" just for the sake of multiple opinions.

On my case, add-ons are made to explore a realistic, free space simulator. The simulation part can be more important than meshes, shapes, animations, etc, etc. That's the difference between an Orbiter add-on and a Celestia add-on for example. Some actually use the same meshes, but the experience is not the same.

Now, it all depends on how this is done in practice. I'd care if add-on import to other simulators was done through direct access to OH for example. That would be too much.
I don't have a problem in developing a sc3 add-on specifically for SW, let's say a Space 1999 Eagle. That might even fit better there than here.... because the experience is different.

So I say that addon creators should have the possibility to choose in what programs they wish their work to be seen.


But why think only about spacecraft? Could Spaceway import an Orbiter solar System and give it real terrain? Could it import bases? That might be interesting, but it would also turn the discussion around a bit into "is Spaceway compatible with Orbiter's assets"?

And what about compatible save states? Orbiter can get you out of Earth and across the solar system, then SW get you into the stars and back again... That would be a valid reason to have the same spacecraft in both sims....
 
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Artlav

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And while I think that it's very polite that you are asking about it, I can't imagine WINE authors asking each Windows application's author for permission to run their apps on WINE environment.
Sure, but it makes sense to ask for general opinion.
I do come from a place that have little regard or understanding of copyrights and author rights, so i might have easily missed something obvious that makes this idea bad.

For example, you like an english webcomic, so you translate it to your language and post on your site, without asking anything.
Fine from our point of view, infuriating from their point of view: http://www.kerbalcomics.com/2012/07/10/to-our-russian-fans

I'd care if add-on import to other simulators was done through direct access to OH for example.
I think there would be many objections to that from all sides.
Not that it's particularly feasible anyway - the add-ons there are not clearly defined enough to allow automatic dependency and conflict resolution.

But why think only about spacecraft? Could Spaceway import an Orbiter solar System and give it real terrain? Could it import bases?
Technically? Yes, it is OGLAClient in graphics, and i can parse the file formats.

Practically? There is no point - to import bases you need to import planets, to do that you need to import the solar system, at which point SW turns into a poor Orbiter knock-off.
I was never aiming for Orbiter-level accuracy and realism, so the end result would hardly be satisfying.

Vessels are a different story - there are a whole lot of sci-fi and futuristic designs on OH that would fit well into SW.
A starship belongs to the interstellar sea, not the cage of one solar system.

And what about compatible save states? Orbiter can get you out of Earth and across the solar system, then SW get you into the stars and back again...
Been there, done that.
Well, not me personally: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=19202
 

4throck

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Fine from our point of view, infuriating from their point of view

Actually you have worked for them and for free. They own the thing. So the only real problem is you distributing / hosting they work, not the work itself.

The safest path would be for you to host the translation only, perhaps with some sort of patch (can't figure out how that would work though...), and then let the user do the shady work :thumbup:

It was more or less what I hinted on my comments about connecting to OH directly.

Let the user download add-ons from OH, and then extract them to SW or use a converter or whatever. No problem there.
Just add a disclaimer somewhere that explains all this and you are fine for me. Just like OBM asks you no to reuse someone else's base and explains that tiles from Google can't be distributed. Simple, effective and doesn't affect individual creativity.
 
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Artlav

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Thanks everyone for voting and comments.
I'll be adding SC3 support to the next Spaceway release, and a note on how it works with a disclaimer and clarification.
Hopefully, OH don't mind being linked to from another sim's site. :)
 

BruceJohnJennerLawso

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Thanks everyone for voting and comments.
I'll be adding SC3 support to the next Spaceway release, and a note on how it works with a disclaimer and clarification.
Hopefully, OH don't mind being linked to from another sim's site. :)

When will it be available? Im really looking forward to it :thumbup:
 

BruceJohnJennerLawso

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One day, someday...

Thanks for that detailed response :lol:

ie, do you consider the feature done right now, or is there further work to be done on integrating SC3 vessels into Spaceway before it is release ready?
 

4throck

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Hopefully, OH don't mind being linked to from another sim's site. :)

You can always link via a google search for "Orbiter Hangar".... :lol:
I don't see any problem, much better that to duplicate things in OH and SWHangar. If I may suggest, clarify that in the disclaimer / description somewhere.

Looking forward to it. I've tried SW but it wasn't my thing, yet it might be more interesting than Orbiter for some sci-fi vessels.
 
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Artlav

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ie, do you consider the feature done right now, or is there further work to be done on integrating SC3 vessels into Spaceway before it is release ready?
Having so many different vessels and structures really exposed all sorts of loose ends and shortcuts in the feature set.
I need to tweak things to work fine together, finish off stuff like aerodynamics and docking, update the scenario set (directories are now supported) make some demo ones for popular vessels (you can't import Orbiter scenarios), and so on.

That, and there is still a 10Kb todo list (for later).

Considering that there is a specific goal at the moment, that should not take too long. End of the week optimistically, early 2014 pessimistically.

Now that's something that ain't going to happen even in the optimistic scenario. :)

I've tried SW but it wasn't my thing, yet it might be more interesting than Orbiter for some sci-fi vessels.
Could you provide any specific things or lack of thereof that makes it not your thing?
 

4throck

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SW is a brilliant achievement. Simply I don't feel connected to visiting unreal worlds.
Given the choice, I always prefer Orbiter, because it's more real. You can fly Gemini to Skylab for example, and stuff like that keeps me coming back.

Yet I do like extrasolar stuff.
I loved MS Space Sim for that. You could chase a comet to the far reaches of the solar system, and then go to the nearest stars or to nebulas.
And I like Celestia because it's realistic extrapolation (most of it).


I simply don't get that buzz out of SW. Perhaps you should provide some interesting situations, along with images to tease the user or something.


But as I mentioned before, I'll certainly give it a good look when I can use sci-fi vessels (for some reason they feel out of place in Orbiter).
I guess that exploring the galaxy flying the Enterprise will be interesting ;-)

Do you foresee the possibility of having some bases / customized planets in the future?
More to the point, could I get this on a planet (if I provided the mesh of course) ?

decor19.jpg


If yes, then you will get that add-on sooner or latter ;-)
(and of course, all the crazy planets from Space 1999)
 
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Artlav

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And the feature is kicked out of the plane, SC3 support is now in Spaceway.
All bugs included, some assembly required.
http://spaceway.1gb.ru
Enjoy!

Do you foresee the possibility of having some bases / customized planets in the future?
More to the point, could I get this on a planet (if I provided the mesh of course) ?
If it's an SC3 add-on, then it can now be added as fast as it can be added to Orbiter.

Bases are supported since forever, i.e. look at "default" scenario.

Customized planets are possible, and there is even a version floating somewhere on this or M6 forum that support it. No idea how to find it, however.
Btw, see the progress report over at my site - if you have a specific custom planets request, it can get made quickly.
 
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