Science with Model Rockets

[Lunar_Lander]

Hi !

When I was considering model rocketry, I came across a model which had a payload chamber. In that booklet I have, there were suggestions like flying an egg as payload. But I think that would be more some kind of fun thing.

Could you imagine some experiment taken up by such a rocket? I saw several models which already had a built-in camera, which looked quite cool. But is the payload space/allowed weight enough to do serious science with a model (Especially with a D motor, see the "Limitations" thread)?

 

[RocketMan_Len]

It depends on what you call 'serious science'. I enjoy rocket-based photography, but tend to consider it more of an engineering challenge than a scientific one. Same with my (half-completed...) active-stability system - I'm concerned less with airflow over the control surfaces, and more with placement of the gyros and servo-linkages. :lol:

Did you have something particular in mind...?

 

[Biscuit]

Hamsters ... lots of hamsters ... raining doom upon the neighbors ... muahahahaha!!!

... seriously, though ... I remember reading about possible payloads back in the day when I was reading up on it, and most of it revolved around photography.

The problem I see is that model rockets of that size don't really get high enough for serious atmospheric science, unless you want to do some low-level temperature measurements.

Trailing a very thin wire and trying to your own lightning research is also a possibility, but not something I'd recommend.

Like Rocketman_len said, at that scale it's more an engineering excercise than science.

... but, any excuse is good enough for launching something no matter the scale.

 

[Torgo]

I launched countless little Lego-nauts, some of them even had parachutes, back when I was young and stupid.

 

[kuddel]

Hi,

the science thoughts were on my mind as well.
I had everything (I thought): A rocket, several microcontrollers, a accelerometer (small, 3-axes, but only +-5G), memory chips,...
But unfortunately the main problems came with the details (as usual )
The microcontrollers a had were all 5V types,
the sensor was a 3.2V type.
After fiddeling a power supply (which added extra weight, grrr) to support
both from a set of small coin-cells, the programmer for the microcontroller
quit working...

It seem to me that luck is not running for me

But nevertheless, I a quite confident, that I will purchase a new microcontroller (3.2V type) with fitting memory chips and another programmer for it sometime.
If someone has a recommendation for any type (plus programming equipment), please let me/us know.
In the meantime the hardware-guys at the company I'm working for have experimented with another sensor: a preassure-sensor with I²C interface. The packaging of that sensor is "a bit small" for bread-board, but I wanted to desing a PCB anyway
I am hoping to get a reasonable small (and light) system that will record around 15 seconds of data (temperature, preassure and at least one of the acceleration axes).
The complete flight will be around 40 seconds, but when memory should be a limiting factor, I can trigger the recording on basis of the accelerometer-data (launch-phase or descent-phase) and record several flights.
It also depends on the sample-rate of cause. But without any actual data on the used memory, controller, bus, etc... I can't give any reasonable numbers, yet.

I would really like to hear of any thoughts on the microcontroller from anyone here.

Regards,
Kuddel

 

[Lunar_Lander]

I thought about such things as taking temperature readings...back then I thought about bigger experiments, but as model rockets do not reach really high altitudes and do not have that much payload space, things like an air-conductivity meter would be not suitable for a model rocket I think.

But as for the accelerometer: I think that you could fly samples of things and see how they react to the acceleration you measure with the accelerometer.

 

[kuddel]

I thought about such things as taking temperature readings...

The temperature measurements are a kind of "additional free data" 'cause nearly all sensors I looked at had a channel for temperature added.
For example the Intersema MS5534C Altimeter Barometer I have at hand.

But as for the accelerometer: I think that you could fly samples of things and see how they react to the acceleration you measure with the accelerometer.

I was more interested in measurement of the vehicle performance than using the vehicle for other measurements. But the results can be used for whatever you like
The biggest problem some time ago was the range of the accelerometer I had. The one I currently have at hand (Freescale MMA7261QT-ND) can measure up to 10g what is a range I don't expect to exceed during the launch.
However, if the first measurements will indicate that the acceleration is greater than 10g, I can still add some extra weight

I'm still not sure what controller to take, so please feel free to give me any recommendations.

/Kuddel

 

[Kyle]

I am in to a more advanced form of Rocketry as well that heavily involves High School chemistry.

 

[RocketMan_Len]

The biggest problem some time ago was the range of the accelerometer I had. The one I currently have at hand (Freescale MMA7261QT-ND) can measure up to 10g what is a range I don't expect to exceed during the launch.
However, if the first measurements will indicate that the acceleration is greater than 10g, I can still add some extra weight

10g is actually a pretty good upper limit for launch acceleration. Mine typically do about 5gs at liftoff. The big problem would occur when the recovery system is triggered - transient accelerations can go to 40gs or higher. A robust accelerometer might be able to handle it - what does it say in the data-sheet...?

 

[kuddel]

10g is actually a pretty good upper limit for launch acceleration. Mine typically do about 5gs at liftoff. The big problem would occur when the recovery system is triggered - transient accelerations can go to 40gs or higher. A robust accelerometer might be able to handle it - what does it say in the data-sheet...?

+- 2000g on all axis. ...I think I'm on the save side with that

In case you want to know more about it: http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MMA7261QT.pdf

/Kuddel

 

[RisingFury]

Me and my friend are gonna build our own rocket, from ground up, including the engine.

All of the "science" will be in getting as much thrust from the engine as possible, not really in flying them. It's just fun to watch them go high

 

[RocketMan_Len]

Me and my friend are gonna build our own rocket, from ground up, including the engine.

All of the "science" will be in getting as much thrust from the engine as possible, not really in flying them. It's just fun to watch them go high

I hope that you've done some kit-building in the past... otherwise you might be in over your head.

Be aware, as well, that there's a great deal of paranoia in the public-at-large... when it comes to things that have even the *slightest* chance of going BANG. It never hurts to keep your local authorities in the loop, so they don't overreact when they get called to your home for 'alleged bomb-making activities'.


-----Posted Added-----

+- 2000g on all axis. ...I think I'm on the save side with that

In case you want to know more about it: http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MMA7261QT.pdf

Yes - that should do nicely. :speakcool: Set your sensitivity to the 10G range, and it ought to be able to handle just about anything you can throw at it.

 

[Arrowstar]

Hamsters ... lots of hamsters ... raining doom upon the neighbors ... muahahahaha!!!

... seriously, though ... I remember reading about possible payloads back in the day when I was reading up on it, and most of it revolved around photography.

The problem I see is that model rockets of that size don't really get high enough for serious atmospheric science, unless you want to do some low-level temperature measurements.

Trailing a very thin wire and trying to your own lightning research is also a possibility, but not something I'd recommend.

Like Rocketman_len said, at that scale it's more an engineering excercise than science.

... but, any excuse is good enough for launching something no matter the scale.

If you're interested in using rockets for either science or engineering work, you might want to look into scaling up a bit. I recommend Public Missiles (http://www.publicmissiles.com/) for components. Rocket motors can be expensive at this range, though, so don't be suprised if you're shelling out 50 or more dollars per launch.

 

[Ghostrider]

Hamsters ... lots of hamsters ... raining doom upon the neighbors ... muahahahaha!!!

If you have a model rocket with enough range, you could seriously threaten Australia with a hamster payload.

 

[tl8]

and we will send you back a cane toad.

Good luck with them.

 

[Ghostrider]

and we will send you back a cane toad.

Bring it on, I say. Full power to the hamrocket!

 

[RisingFury]

I hope that you've done some kit-building in the past... otherwise you might be in over your head.

I used to build RC plane models, so I'm not new to precision work. My friend used to build rockets and his own motors before, so I will have someone to guide me.

Be aware, as well, that there's a great deal of paranoia in the public-at-large... when it comes to things that have even the *slightest* chance of going BANG. It never hurts to keep your local authorities in the loop, so they don't overreact when they get called to your home for 'alleged bomb-making activities'.

Thankfully I don't live in US... here in Slovenia - which is so little you can barely find it on the map - we don't yet panic about terrorists...

 

[RocketMan_Len]

I used to build RC plane models, so I'm not new to precision work. My friend used to build rockets and his own motors before, so I will have someone to guide me.

Thankfully I don't live in US... here in Slovenia - which is so little you can barely find it on the map - we don't yet panic about terrorists...

Having a mentor is a VERY good idea - just remember to go slow and expect LOTS of failures.

You may not have to worry about being called a terrorist... but if you have neighbours nearby, they may worry that you might start a fire that can burn their own homes down.

Just *be careful*...