Question Rwarp and flying in atmo

TMHLIVE

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I was just putting around and I wanted to go from L.A (base I made in the right spot) to Ottawa (same thing) now yes they are far away but that being said. ottawa is est (timezone) and LA is PST so -3hr difference.

so..I programmed the warp jump for ottawa and a alt of 50k which is a general rule of thumb with me. I launched, when to 40k and jumped. I ended up on the dark side and had to jump to the sun then back to ottawa.

ok yes we are talking a few thousand miles or km or what ever. but I programmed a upward path so why did i fly into the planet, it get all screwy and put my on the dark side rather then skim across the planet up to 50k I was not jumped across the planet just a short jump across the continent and going up higher to not crash and burn.

Is there a better way to be a mad man and skim the surface at a stupid fast speed with this addon or am I just trying to do something it can't do.
 

statickid

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I'm pretty sure rwarp only travel in straight lines. Also comes to complete stop so you'll be in freefall when you arrive. I skim planet surfaces by going into a hyperbolic orbit and continually thrusting main engines with the nose pointed straight at the ground to fly in a circle

---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 PM ----------

...not to mention flying through the atmosphere at C would probably melt your face and kill everyone and destroy everything :lol:
 

dacamp66

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At the speeds you are travelling, hitting the atmosphere ("hitting" is a deliberate word choice here) would be like skydiving without a parachute into a block of concrete. head first.
IRL, if you did this you would instantaneously vaporize your ship, if not the earth. at the least, it would create a chixulub (dinosaur killer) or tunguska event.
 
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dacamp66

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Even a star trek style warp drive cannot be activated inside a planet's (or especially a star's) SOI (sphere of influence(the area where the star or planet's gravity field measurably affects the curvature of spacetime)). to do so can burn out your warp coils,(very expensive, and career ending), cause a warp core breach (BIG, BIG BOOM!) or if too close to an unstable type of star, cause a supernova (the ultimate BOOM!). the outer limit of this danger zone beyond which it is safe to use your warp drive is known as the Cochrane Limit (named for Zefrem Cochrane, inventor of the warp drive in canon star trek lore.
 

TMHLIVE

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Well You could drop out and yes go boom. But the warp drive in star trek ( gravimetric field displacement manifold ) pulls the ship out of normal space time and moves the space around it to get to a given location. as shown in I don't know how many episodes warp drive can happen in a solar system as long as when you jump out your not being dumb about it. warp drive can also be used in atmo as well with no crash. Even with cargo as shown in the voyage home. (bird of pray with whales in its hold) so the whole thing DACAMP66 is null and void.

if you want to talk sci fi physics I here all week.
 

dacamp66

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I have, since the above post, been brushing up on my ST lore, and must rephrase my above post; apparently operating warp drive inside the C.L. does not mean that the above will ALWAYS happen, however doing so apparently measurably shortens the service life of the warp coils and increases the likelyhood of the above happening and can cause weird things to happen. i remember one episode of TOS where the crew were infected by a disease that simulated the effects of drunkenness, ensign kelso shuts off the engines and m-am reactor, forcing an emergency jump to warp deep within the gravity field of a planet causing a time warp that sends them back in time a couple of days. (The Naked Time) another time a similar occurance sent them back to 1960's earth (Tommorrow Is Yesterday)
 

garyw

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You are arguing about Star Trek physics? A show that can't even keep it's own tech consistent from episode to episode..........!
 

dacamp66

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you have a point garyw, it is kinda dumb to argue about "physics" that aren't even real isn't it?
Please consider the subject dropped on my part.
 
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statickid

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Well the plausibility of the gravimetric field displacement manifold as compared with the drives from The Phantom Menace....


...


nevermind
 

Matias Saibene

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I remember once take off in a straight line from Jupiter, and I started a flight with Rwarp, I realized that the earth (my destiny) was behind Jupiter's atmosphere. Then when I crossed the atmosphere, the spacecraft was heated like reentry in Earth's atmosphere with my classic Matías Saibene Reentry Style (reentry over 30km/s over 99999999 ° C). However I could reach Earth without problems (I have set the XR2 indestructible mode). Attach a dirty-and-slow image that I have made to understand it.
4ecpgi7vhc74hxd6g.jpg
 

gattispilot

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I wonder how you could travel on a planet using this or make a jump gate thing for Orbiter2010. I looked at different hyperdrive codes. Most of them just jump to x amount in the z direction. But your speed when stopped is FAST.

Maybe something like you are on the Earth at White sands and now to want to get to somewhere else on the Earth is a quick amount of time. So you pick a base and press a key and you get move there like the scenario editor.
 
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dgatsoulis

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One thing that "might" work, would be to destroy the vessel "oapiDeleteVessel" and recreate it at different coordinates with "oapiCreateVesselEx".

Unless someone has a better idea, have a look
Orbitersdk\doc\API_Reference.pdf page 60 "Vessel creation and destruction".

Recreating the vessel with the same propelant mass as the destroyed one, shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know how you'd be able to keep the same crew/etc in the case of a vessel with UMMU/UCGO cargo.
 

gattispilot

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Yes not sure how that would work with the ummu and cargo either. I know the Stargates kinda did that. Moved the vessel from point to point.
 

Face

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I wonder how you could travel on a planet using this or make a jump gate thing for Orbiter2010. I looked at different hyperdrive codes. Most of them just jump to x amount in the z direction. But your speed when stopped is FAST.

Speed relative to what? You'd have to first define your frame of reference to establish a measurement of FAST.

Maybe something like you are on the Earth at White sands and now to want to get to somewhere else on the Earth is a quick amount of time. So you pick a base and press a key and you get move there like the scenario editor.

In what way should it be different from using the scenario editor?

One thing that "might" work, would be to destroy the vessel "oapiDeleteVessel" and recreate it at different coordinates with "oapiCreateVesselEx".

Unless someone has a better idea, have a look
Orbitersdk\doc\API_Reference.pdf page 60 "Vessel creation and destruction".

Recreating the vessel with the same propelant mass as the destroyed one, shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know how you'd be able to keep the same crew/etc in the case of a vessel with UMMU/UCGO cargo.

Why would you go through that hassle instead of just using DefSetStateEx(VESSELSTATUS2) ?



IMHO, having a FTL drive where you simply put in where you want to go, press enter, have a fancy special effect, and BOOM, you are there... is totally pointless. Well, besides demonstrating the fancy special effect, of course.

Why would an Orbiter user want this? It sure can't be to simulate one of the SciFi FTL methods, because none of them is depicted as a point-click-there device AFAIK. Most even describe handling of it as some special skill that characters often have to gain with long training. Not even the magic things from StarGate bring you exactly where you want to be, they only provide jumps to fixed end-points.

I'd say it makes sense to implement FTL in order to replay favorite shows or play what-could-be with clearly fictional concepts, but some sort of scenario editor with special effects is ridiculous. Without at least SOME depth, there is no fun in such an add-on.

But what about instead implementing that latest NASA concepts on warp field theory? Pretend it is sound, take the "newtonian speed is multiplied by spacetime distortion according to warp-field donut size and flux frequency" literally. Together with meshes according to the pretty artist renderings, that sure would make for a hell of an add-on. Imagine an MFD/VC that shows you those field renderings while the drive is active, changing on size/flux setting variation, fluctuating wildly if you come too close to gravity wells, perhaps changing your course unpredictably. Plus you can name it IXS Enterprise without sounding too cheesy ;) .

Doesn't that sound more interesting?
 

gattispilot

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On the speed. Lets say you are going 100m/s and now to move 1000000 m forward your speed at the end might be excessive.

The reason is to a simulate SCi-Fi Ship. I built the bubbleship from a Movie. Not a realistic vessel. There is the Moon Base Alpha from Space 1999. Other ships from Movies and Tv shows like Star Trek and the whole Alien series
 
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Face

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On the speed. Lets say you are going 100m/s and now to move 1000000 m forward your speed at the end might be excessive.

100m/s relative to what? Earth? Sun? Another vessel?

You can set a vessel's position and velocity in the solar system frame of reference in an instance in Orbiter. There is no reason for excessive speed at the end of a 1E6 meter jump.
 

gattispilot

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Here is the warp drive from Firefly:
Code:
void PAX377::WarpDrive()
{
	/*********** Warp Drive **************************************/

	if (do_warp > 0 && ff_status == DOOR_OPEN){
		//   FTLJump(MIN_WARP_DISTANCE * ftl_factor);
		switch (secretWarp){
		case 0:
			warp_distance = MIN_WARP_DISTANCE;
			break;
		case 1:
			warp_distance = 1.0;
			break;
		case 2:
			warp_distance = 5.0;
		case 3:
			warp_distance = 10.0;
		case 4:
			warp_distance = 50.0;
		case 5:
			warp_distance = 100.0;
			break;
		}
		switch (ftl_factor){
		case 1:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 1);
			break;
		case 2:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 3);
			break;
		case 3:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 5);
			break;
		case 4:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 10);
			break;
		case 5:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 15);
			break;
		case 6:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 20);
			break;
		case 7:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 100);
			break;
		case 8:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 250);
			break;
		case 9:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 500);
			break;
		case 10:
			FTLJump(warp_distance * 10000);
			break;
		}

	}
}

void PAX377::FTLJump(double hyperdis)
{
	

	
	
	//Get  our global position in the Sol system
	GetRelativePos(oapiGetGbodyByIndex(0), global_position);
	// the above may be the wrong method to use so I'm changing it to this
	//   oapiGetGlobalPos (GetHandle(), &global_position); //our global position
	//Change it to a Local reference
	Global2Local(global_position, local_position);

	//We are jumping in the direction we are pointed which in local reference is the Z direction
	//Add the desired distance to the Z direction
	local_position.z = local_position.z + hyperdis;
	//sprintf(oapiDebugString(), "ftl_factor %d SECRET %d hyperdis %2.2f", ftl_factor, secretWarp, hyperdis);

	//Now we have a new position based on adding the desired jump distance but it's loacl so we have to change back to Global
	Local2Global(local_position, new_position);

	//new_position  now holds the new global position of our ship.
	//To do the FTL jump we are going to set the current position to the new one which gives the impression that we have jumped to a new location.
	//Get the current information about our ship
	VESSELSTATUS2 fvs;
	memset(&fvs, 0, sizeof (fvs));
	fvs.version = 2;
	GetStatusEx(&fvs);

	//Get our vel in the global referance
	GetGlobalVel(global_vel);
	//Get our vel releitive to Sol
	GetRelativeVel(oapiGetGbodyByIndex(0), global_vel);

	//This is the handle of the referance body and I not sure why we need it. The only thing I can thimnk of is that this value gets set to null
	//some how. If we don't have it we jump to never never land.
	fvs.rbody = oapiGetGbodyByIndex(0);

	//copy the new position and vel to our ship structure.
	veccpy(fvs.rpos, new_position);
	veccpy(fvs.rvel, global_vel);
	//Update the ship structure which makes us jump.

	DefSetStateEx(&fvs);
}

But if my ship's speed is 100m/s and the end of the warp it is excessive.
 

Face

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Here is the warp drive from Firefly:
<snip>
But if my ship's speed is 100m/s and the end of the warp it is excessive.

I know how displacement works in Orbiter. Still my question was unanswered: 100m/s relative to WHAT?

See, if you have 100m/s relative to Earth core, and your current orbit is prograde in the ecliptic plane, and your current position is opposite to the sun, your sun-relative velocity is your orbital velocity plus Earth's orbital velocity. If you now displace your vessel while retaining sun-relative velocity (like many jump implementations do, as does the code you've shown), your velocity relative to a nearby Gbody might be what you call excessive. In fact, it is just the simulated consequence of a fictional displacement drive in a newtonian environment.

I guess you want the "put me to mars" device. It is absolutely no act to implement such a thing, just plug in the numbers into the VESSELSTATUS2 struct. But it is totally pointless, as already depicted in my previous post.
 
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