Orbiter at a Science Day Camp, July 2013

HazMatt

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We brought our mobile DIY Space Sim to a summer day camp for kids. We coached them through a variety of tasks, including:
* Maneuvering with the RCS
* A launch from the Moon's surface and into orbit
* Circularizing an orbit
* Definitions: apoapsis, periapsis, prograde, retrograde, translation, rotation, etc.
* Checklist usage
* Cockpit and spacecraft familiarization

 

Donamy

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looks like 7 and 8 yro ?
 

Donamy

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How was it received ?
 

HazMatt

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How was it received ?

They loved it the flight simulator, especially compared to the other activity that was happening at the time. While two kids took their turn at the simulator, the other kids were doing a different, less stellar, activity.

With each pair of kids, we had one working as the pilot, and the other as the navigator and had various duties assigned to each. The kids displayed better cooperation than I thought they would. Good for them.

The kids liked the scenario we had prepared for them, but they also just liked manipulating the views around the Delta Glider, even zooming in so far that the view was inside the ship.


There are a few things we need to improve.
* First, the modified keyboard had too many buttons for this exercise. It was designed for people on the Orbiter forum, not 10 year old kids. So we will simplify that.

* The checklist we used had too many acronyms. Again, it was written for adult Orbiter users, so we will re-write that as well.

* We are also planning to color-code the checklist to show who is performing each action (pilot or navigator).

* We should have done a better job of teaching the new words in the days leading up to the flight simulator exercise.

* We asked for feedback, and one of the kids would like to fly to another planet. That's a pretty big endeavor in Orbiter, and I'm not very skilled at using TransX.

* One kid asked us to make a new version of "Angry Birds." I don't think that will happen.
 

Donamy

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thanks for the feed back.
 

Quick_Nick

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I still love to see Orbiter being used for education, but it seems like KSP will now be a better (starting) tool for younger kids. Especially in going to other celestial bodies for example. I think TransX is too much fiddling around and frustration, even with knowledge of how to use it, for younger kids. A little older and they may weigh the reward of success high enough to maintain interest. I'm totally speculating here, although I started Orbiter around age 11. (Almost 20 now!)
 

PhantomCruiser

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I've got a little IMFD thingy that I'd put together for another Orbinaut a few years back. It's written to get the user from MIR to Venus, but the same techniques will get to Mercury, Mars and the outer planets (just have to be willing to wait for the right window). If I can dig it up, I'll forward it to you.

Pretty simple to follow, it's written more as a checklist first-tutorial second (if that makes any sense). The IMFD Full Manual was released much later (and is well worth the download), but I'd learned it this way and it's worked for me.
 

HazMatt

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I still love to see Orbiter being used for education, but it seems like KSP will now be a better (starting) tool for younger kids. Especially in going to other celestial bodies for example. I think TransX is too much fiddling around and frustration, even with knowledge of how to use it, for younger kids. A little older and they may weigh the reward of success high enough to maintain interest. I'm totally speculating here, although I started Orbiter around age 11. (Almost 20 now!)

I agree. I'm going to speculate about Kerbal Space Program because I've only watched YouTube videos about it, I haven't actually played it, but I believe KSP has the ability to gain and hold a kid's attention much better than Oribiter.

I think KSP has great potential for teaching physics and orbital mechanics. Unfortunately, it takes place in a fictional solar system, so kids don't learn much about our wonderful, real, solar system.

But I'm still watching the development of KSP with interest.
 

Shootingiron

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* One kid asked us to make a new version of "Angry Birds." I don't think that will happen.

Awesome, something to play on those long transits.

You definitely deserve a +1 for getting kids interested in science.

Where did you get those great plastic fittings to make your frame on?
 

Donamy

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Home Depot I assume.
 

HazMatt

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Awesome, something to play on those long transits.

You definitely deserve a +1 for getting kids interested in science.

Where did you get those great plastic fittings to make your frame on?

Thanks, that frame is made from plastic PVC pipe, and lumber from a home improvement store. It is the DIY Roll-Away Flight Simulator:
http://www.rogerdodger.net/diyflightsims/e420_roll-away.html

Full disclosure: that's my website, and I sell stuff. I've been very careful to never spam this forum because I know that's inappropriate.
 

JonnyBGoode

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Now I'm going to have to relearn how to use lightwave just to make an Angry Birds model.
 

Donamy

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mikusingularity
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I agree. I'm going to speculate about Kerbal Space Program because I've only watched YouTube videos about it, I haven't actually played it, but I believe KSP has the ability to gain and hold a kid's attention much better than Oribiter.

I think KSP has great potential for teaching physics and orbital mechanics. Unfortunately, it takes place in a fictional solar system, so kids don't learn much about our wonderful, real, solar system.

But I'm still watching the development of KSP with interest.
KSP has indeed made a lot of people interested in spaceflight.
(KSP references and memes being made on rocket launch videos, for example)
 

N_Molson

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First congrats for an educational initiative, and second congrats for an educational initiative that can make future people interested in astro-sciences.

I share the same feeling about KSP. Yes, it is much more user-friendly and simplifies a lot of things that kids can't understand. Also, the graphics are appealing, and that's very important for kids, that don't have reached the level of abstraction of adults (it usually takes place during teen years). So 3D terrain you can land on for Orbiter would be highly valuable. But this is done at the sacrifice of the real space-time scales, which I find a bit embarassing in an educative perspective. It doesn't take 3 hours to get to the Moon with a "classic" chemical rocket, and the gas giants (only Jool for now) are in reality very, very far away. Still you realize that, even in the scaled-down universe of KSP, your chances of randomly colliding another orbiting object are extremely low (unless you try to approach it).

Orbiter lacks the "fun features" and the appealing terrain, but no collision detection isn't a problem, a kid will be rather happy to go through the ISS because he missed his docking. They easily understand that there would be a nasty collision IRL. Also, you really feel that the distances to other planets are huge and that an interplanetary trip is a great challenge. About TransX/IMFD, they are obviously much too abstract and complex for kids, and also for probably most of the adults (including myself, I can use them but I really have a hard time doing so).

Now, I know this isn't in the spirit of Orbiter-Forum, but, in the "Orbiter-for-kids-perspective" would a "full-auto" IMFD be possible ? Like you enter "Mars", press a "compute" button, and it gives you a list of launch windows plus a vector target on the HUD (again, visual stuff, a crosshair with "to Mars" written near it). That would be OK for kids I think. With a big timer on the HUD telling when to engage and when kill the engines, that would work. A view of the Solar System with the orbits of planets and your trajectory would be essential, as it shows what happens (from inside the ship, the transfer can look like pure magic).

Just my :2cents: and congrats again. :cheers:

Edit : also, for kids, a "purified" OrbitMFD, with less values. There are a lot of complex acronyms there and you don't need to understand all to use it. No problems for adults but kids would appreciable something a bit easier to read.
 
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Scruce

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KSP has indeed made a lot of people interested in spaceflight.
(KSP references and memes being made on rocket launch videos, for example)

The constant KSP jokes are getting quite annoying. KSP is about space but space isn't about KSP. All of the videos relating to space on YouTube don't need the endless jokes. It's just kind of embarrassing now.
 

kamaz

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* We asked for feedback, and one of the kids would like to fly to another planet. That's a pretty big endeavor in Orbiter, and I'm not very skilled at using TransX.

If you don't mind excessive use of time and propellant, an Earth-to-Mars (or whatever) transfer can be done without using TransX, provided that you can do an ISS intercept.

0. Set the date to one listed here http://clowder.net/hop/railroad/EMa.htm

1. When on the opposite site of Earth to the Sun, burn prograde to escape into a solar orbit.

2. Now you have Sun as your major body, and Mars is your taget to "dock" with. Do Mars interception burn the same way you do ISS interception burn. (Arguably it's easier, because you only have to get within half a million kilometers of Mars.) Mind the inclination difference though...

3. At Mars periapsis, burn retrograde until you enter an orbit around Mars.

4. Use standard orbital maneuvers to get to lower orbit and see the views.
 
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Shootingiron

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Ah, now a see that those unusual shapes are just things like T's and 45's butted up to each other. Very clever!
 
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