# OFMM Crew

## Number of UMMU to bring along

• ### 2

Votes: 0 0.0%
• ### 3

Votes: 0 0.0%
• ### 4

Votes: 0 0.0%
• ### 19

Votes: 0 0.0%

• Total voters
22

#### Bj

##### Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
First I want everyone to keep in mind this program doesn't span a one round trip to Mars. This can continue for multiple missions with many more UMMU in the scenarios.

That being said, how many UMMU are we wanting to go on this first landing trip?

Are they going to be NPCs or are we going to have actual UMMU named after more active members. If that is so, I think since really the top we can ever accept for a mission to be 20, and there being 41 members in the social group, that might actually work out OK for now.

Also keep in mind, while the consumables are an important factor, getting this big, another important factor is the size of the habitable areas. In the MTV 20 man crew could stretch the size and weight so much the 'corners' of the OSHM will actually need to curve, to follow the direction of gravity. Also try landing such a large vessel gets a little more tricky to design -and land

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#### Bloodworth

##### Orbinoob
I will bring along 1 UMMU for the first trip. If we continue beyond that I will consider more...if there is room.

#### garyw

##### O-F Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Addon Developer
Tutorial Publisher
6.

Commander
Pilot
Scientist 1 - e.g. geologist cross trained as a medic
Scientist 2 - e.g. meteorologist cross trained as a engineer
Doctor - Cross trained as pilot and will be flight engineer
Engineer

#### Urwumpe

##### Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
I suggest 8...

Commander
Flight Engineer 1 & 2
Medic
MS 1-4

No cross training as common for task based training, instead a consequent skill based training, with the different positions just getting task based training for special jobs, eg all have medical training, but only the Medic gets trained for the task management and complex surgery.

Flight Engineers and Commander have special technical and piloting training, and are practically interchangeable - the rank as commander is a hierarchical thing, not about different skills.

Mission Specialists have scientific skill based training.

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#### garyw

##### O-F Administrator
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Moderator
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Urwumpe's suggestion works as well. Either way, you want to keep your first crewed landing small in case of a loss of crew. Harsh as though it may sound it's better to lose a small number and retry than lose a large number and never be able to try again.

#### Urwumpe

##### Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
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Urwumpe's suggestion works as well. Either way, you want to keep your first crewed landing small in case of a loss of crew. Harsh as though it may sound it's better to lose a small number and retry than lose a large number and never be able to try again.

You always need as little crew for ANY mission as possible. If the feasible work is later too much for a crew of 8, you need more crew.

#### Izack

##### Non sequitur
Addon Developer
Agreed. Eight is a good number.

...Much better than one, at least. I'm looking at you, Bloodworth!:rofl:

Do we draw straws on who gets to have an UMMU named after him now?

#### Voyager

##### New member
I say we name one after Doctor Martin Schweiger. (Make him a doctor, because he has a Ph.D)

#### garyw

##### O-F Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Addon Developer
Tutorial Publisher
as a suggestion name the UMMU's after people who are part of the OFMM project and who will be going to Mars. Create some missions now to test out skills and have something of a competition for the lucky [insert number here] who will go there.

#### Urwumpe

##### Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
I suggest naming the second manned lander "OFSC Doctor Martin Schweiger"...and the first one "OSFC Urwumpe". :lol:

Bloodworth is the poor UMMU who has to stay back for lighting the fuse of the return stage.

#### Bj

##### Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
I say we name one after Doctor Martin Schweiger. (Make him a doctor, because he has a Ph.D)

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine"]MD[/ame] != [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy"]Ph.D[/ame]

if there is room.

Its in the initial calculations right now, but so far I calculate a huge weight budget for our trip here.

A quick sample: 4.8ish km/s from LEO to Mars, and 3.4ish km/s from LMO to Earth.

Round up just because:
5 km/s and 3.5 km/s

Apparently LH2 (which is Nerva fuel) cannot be created on Mars easily so:

8.5 km/s is what our MTV requires.

$8500 = isp * ln((fuel+pay+dry)/(dry+pay)$
reverse. Fuel = 174,466 (Nerva +2 drop tanks)
isp = 16500

$8500 = 16500 * ln((174466+pay+dry)/(dry+pay)$
$8500 = isp * ln((174466+pay+dry)/(dry+pay)$
$0.51 = ln((174466+pay+dry)/(dry+pay)$
$e^(.51) = (174466+pay+dry)/(dry+pay)$
$1.673 = (174466+\beta)/(\beta)$
$.673\beta = 174466$
$\beta = ~259,227.34$
So anyway, almost 260 tonnes for everything, (dry, fuel, lander, vehicles, consumables ext..)

Someone want to double check that? I am using the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation"]Tsiolkovsky rocket equation[/ame] for the calculations.

as a suggestion name the UMMU's after people who are part of the OFMM project and who will be going to Mars. Create some missions now to test out skills and have something of a competition for the lucky [insert number here] who will go there.

Test skills like if a pilot can fly kind of a thing? How about using [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4126"]this[/ame]? Never tried it but I would guess the best time flying would have the most control over the vessel? Then for the mission specialists, do they get to try driving a forklift around cape to see who gets a pile of boxes all nice and neat the fastest?

Or.. make the pilots launch the space shuttle (no autopilot) dock with ISS grab some cargo, bring it back and land on the runway at cape with the least amount of fuel?

Not sure exactly how to handle this competition. AFAIK with only 8 guys going, they are going to be acting as NPC with the 28 some people on the OFMM signup

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#### Izack

##### Non sequitur
Addon Developer
I'd leave the space shuttle out of it unless someone actually flies a space shuttle on a construction flight.

Just saying...I cannot launch or land it (haven't even given a serious try), but I don't consider myself to be a bad pilot otherwise. I'm just a space pilot.

Hopefully I didn't just disqualify myself... :shifty:

#### fireballs619

##### Occam's Taser
Donator
I won't even pretend to have the piloting skills for interplanetary flight, even though I would really like one of those UMMUs named after me . I would suggest that if you know you won't have the skills for the first flight, don't volunteer, just to make things go smoother.

#### Bj

##### Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
I'd leave the space shuttle out of it unless someone actually flies a space shuttle on a construction flight.

Just saying...I cannot launch or land it (haven't even given a serious try), but I don't consider myself to be a bad pilot otherwise. I'm just a space pilot.

Hopefully I didn't just disqualify myself... :shifty:

Just saying, reentry with the SkyCrane will be somewhat like the shuttle, very little amount of hovering capabilities. You have to put it right on the LZ pretty darn close. However, only a few of the many will be landing/taking off with the skycrane. Most of the time will be spent launching from Earth and ground operations.

#### Salun

##### Das Bluejay El DESTROY YOU ALL
I personally think eigth is to many. Im thinking more along the lines of 6. 4 Ground Crew and 2 orbiter crew. Manning the stack from orbiter. Acting as Ground support. Weather and overall terrain data as well as a com center. Relaying radio signals to either earth or the repeater satellites.

4 people on the ground acting as 2 teams of 2. One Ground Commander. 2 Mission specialists and one Pilot. Similar to the structure proposed by NASA for the first human steps on mars.

Its Orbiter. I know we are killing MMU's all the time but frankly we can cut down on crew by just saying they are all trained as medics XD

#### Voyager

##### New member
Early missions should have a light crew with only 4-6 people. Then later missions would increase the amount of crew because of bigger bases. Also can we have flags for each country and state?

#### Urwumpe

##### Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
No flags. Please. The discussion already has a lot of flags and footprints in it, no need to go the final step and really make the mission completely useless.

#### Bj

##### Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Early missions should have a light crew with only 4-6 people. Then later missions would increase the amount of crew because of bigger bases. Also can we have flags for each country and state?

Um if we have anything, it might be a plaque on the landing pads of the first landing vessel.

#### Salun

##### Das Bluejay El DESTROY YOU ALL
Ill do this the easy way.

Flag planting is not on the official flight plan. If an individual wants to plant a flag on there own OFMM scenario files. Go nuts

#### T.Neo

##### SA 2010 Soccermaniac
Addon Developer
Aw... that has a slight pity to it, planting flags was rather quaint.

Perhaps there be an O-F banner? Or a gigantic placard that says "URWUMPE WUZ HERE" ? :rofl:

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