model rocket to the moon (unmaned)

joshua01793

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can it happen i dont no much about model rocketry but i no that they can do some cool things what are the chances of getting one to the moon ?
 

Woo482

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1 out of 100000000000 billion chance
 

joshua01793

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makes seen i think you can get one in to orbit if you try but getting out of earths grave it a little out there.
 

joshua01793

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what me

well you would need to have control over it in real life that would the first step and then after that its gust a case of getting the larch window right and having the capability of doing servile burns
 

Jarvitä

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Well amongst the problems you'd face would be legally acquiring enough fuel and strong enough engines and the license to launch your rocket, staging and navigation.

P.S.: What browser do you use? Firefox has a built-in spell-checker, which I noticed you could really use.
 

Artlav

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Well amongst the problems you'd face would be legally acquiring enough fuel and strong enough engines and the license to launch your rocket, staging and navigation.
Which raises an interesting question:
What if someone build an orbital rocket, for example inventing some sort of cold fusion based thruster of higher than SSME efficiency, and launch on it into space, without asking for permissions and having licenses?
What will await him on return, and what the international reaction will be?
 

astrosammy

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A german guy phones NASA because he thinks his rocket can make it into Orbit:
[ame="http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=HjAunVEGJJ0"][/ame]
 

Quick_Nick

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can it happen i dont no much about model rocketry but i no that they can do some cool things what are the chances of getting one to the moon ?
It depends where you draw the line between model rocketry and 'real' rocketry.
 
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Well, technically if you had a launch platform in the middle of the Ocean... then you could theoretically be withing legal limits. Of course there are several parts of this to make it difficult.

Just saying; Nobody owns the ocean, you can do basically anything you want out there (basically don't let your cousin Vinnie take you out in his yacht) and nobody owns space... If you DID launch up, the ISS couldn't do anything but help you unless it endangered their lives.


All of this is Theoretical though... right?
 

Kaito

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lol, I've day dreamed many times of making a futuristic rocket the size of my pencil (US History II can get VERY boring sometimes), and can make it into orbit...then it throws a program error and collides into the ISS (because my day dreams are cool enough to have the ISS where i want it when i want it there)....killing everybody onboard...and the pressure release causes ISS to plunge back to earth....colliding with New York City (because the ISS has a heat-shield that extends about 100' outside of it)...killing everyone there, causing a massive economy plunge....therefore having the president send a bunch of ppl to find out where the rocket came from...while i secretly plan to make another futuristic rocket that can be launched from anywhere and hit the president to keep him from finding me...
*Book hits desk*
Teacher: Jake, what were we just talking about?
Me: uh....
 

cjp

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lol, I've day dreamed many times of making a futuristic rocket the size of my pencil (US History II can get VERY boring sometimes), and can make it into orbit...then it throws a program error and collides into the ISS (because my day dreams are cool enough to have the ISS where i want it when i want it there)....killing everybody onboard...and the pressure release causes ISS to plunge back to earth....colliding with New York City (because the ISS has a heat-shield that extends about 100' outside of it)...killing everyone there, causing a massive economy plunge....therefore having the president send a bunch of ppl to find out where the rocket came from...while i secretly plan to make another futuristic rocket that can be launched from anywhere and hit the president to keep him from finding me...
*Book hits desk*
Teacher: Jake, what were we just talking about?
Me: uh....

I called the thought police to come to arrest you.

Now, seriously back on topic: the only realistic way to the moon goes from launch to LEO and from LEO to the moon. So, you'd better first try to reach LEO. I know there are some rocket enthusiasts out there who think they can reach orbit, but I never heard of anyone actually doing it. Anyway, even this will either need to be a life-long passion, or well coordinated team work.

Now, even going to LEO requires multi-stage technology: all other possibilities are more difficult and hence unrealistic for "amateurs". For the rest: you either need to have tricks to make very light-weight solid rocket engines, or to make reasonably powerful (and also light) liquid or hybrid rockets, especially for the last stage(s). If you want to know how big your rocket will be, you could calculate back from what is the minimum weight you need to bring in orbit. I'd say it needs to be at least the empty mass of the last stage, including guiding electronics and some radio transmitter to confirm you've reached orbit. Maybe 100 gram to orbit?

Now, have a look at all the failed attempts of Noth Korea and Iran on reaching orbit, and you know this can't be an easy task. Now you have the advantage of being independent and not having the political mess you'd have in a dictatorial country, and maybe you're a very smart rocket scientist, but my guess is you won't succeed unless you have a large well-organized team of dedicated people.
 

reverend

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you need about 11.0 km/sec velocity change to get to the moon from the earth's surface. there is no fuel you could use that would fit into any rocket small enough to be considered 'model' rocketry that could provide enough DV to launch from the earth's surface.

The coolest thing is that you COULD make a model rocket that would be released from ISS, a shuttle, or soyuz that could make it to the moon. I'm pretty sure I could make one that would do that.
 

SlyCoopersButt

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If you can make it, They could possibly take it, For the publicity of helping a civillian set a new space record. At least you haven't the atmosphere to worry about and only need to get those few remaining Km's per sec in Delta V. That would be as close as one could get to be a real life case of the astronaut farmer:).

The main challenge is of course navigation, Communication and it's stability when it makes an escape burn. So such a tiny privately made rocket is going to have to be a historical marvel of engineering. But then however, It's no longer exactly a rocket but a probe. Orbital sciences corperation with the Pegasus launcher might be the best ones to approach for launcing it if all else fails. And you have a LOT of money.
 

reverend

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If you can make it, They could possibly take it, For the publicity of helping a civillian set a new space record. At least you haven't the atmosphere to worry about and only need to get those few remaining Km's per sec in Delta V. That would be as close as one could get to be a real life case of the astronaut farmer:).

The main challenge is of course navigation, Communication and it's stability when it makes an escape burn. So such a tiny privately made rocket is going to have to be a historical marvel of engineering. But then however, It's no longer exactly a rocket but a probe. Orbital sciences corperation with the Pegasus launcher might be the best ones to approach for launcing it if all else fails. And you have a LOT of money.

It isn't exactly just a few extra dV... it's atleast 3000 m/s
and this would still be a pretty powerful rocket. perhaps an N class motor.

The key thing here is that the burn will be short, we're basically just firing a motor without much else to it. very little weight over the fuel weight a 10 second burn averaging 30 G's will get the 3000m/s needed. acceleration toward the end of the burn will be absolutely extreme.

so basically it's a rocket motor with a control head.

the control head would have a compressed air cyllinder, a guidance computer with a clock, a gps, a gyro and a radio transponder. a small solar cell and battery would provide the power.

the device would only need to be armed and released in orbit. in theory, it could be released in any low earth orbit.

the control head will use the gyro's to determine it's orientation. the computer will calculate the angle to the sun and will activate the control head which uses the compressed air for rcs to align the solar cell with the sun to provide maximum power

the guidance computer will use gps data to understand where it is in orbit. the computer will wait for the appropriate burn time, optimal windows occur every 14 days.

in preperation for the burn, the computer will align the rocket to the proper orientation, then will use the compressed air one last time to start a high velocity spin. this will be all that is needed for stabilization during the burn. once the burn is complete, hopefully the transponder still works and we'll be able to hear a beep from it until it impacts the lunar surface.

I do believe that even if the transponder fails at this point the impact would still be visible from earth with a telescope. any high velocity impact like that causes a flash of light, and would probably make a nice little crater.
 

SlyCoopersButt

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I was referring to Km's per sec. Perhaps an air cylinder or something else like it alone could maybe acheive that feat coming to think of it, Has anyone calculated/Can calculate what a scuba tank at about 3000 PSI could reach in Delta V? If you ever saw mythbusters you will know what air cylinders that lose their valves can do! The big air tanks (Not scuba) that were about 1.5 meters I think in height went through cinder block walls like they were butter. Another thought would be a high pressure hydrogen gas cylinder since the gas would have much less mass which equals more acceleration. But I'm no expert about this so I have no idea how silly I may sound.
 

reverend

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i believe a solid fuel rocket motor would be a better choice for propulsion. if compressed air was a better propellant, then government rockets and missiles would use it.

3000 PSI is much higher than the combustion pressure in conventional solid rocket motors. that means you take on more dead weight. a solid motor could be fashioned out of carbon fiber, pvc, and cardboard. The compressed air cyllinder i was taking about would be more along the lines of like a whipcream spray can. There's all kinds of mislabeled rocket parts around :) Whipcream thruster lol :)

I've seen that mythbuster episode, and yes, an air tank like that would probably get you half-way to the moon.

I think i can write the computer code for this in orbiter.
 
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