Gaming Military personnel comment on being the Taliban in MOH

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PhantomCruiser

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Iberville, I thank you for your service to your fellow man. I spent 10 years in the US Navy myself, luckily in my career I never had to see the horrors of what you have witnessed so far in yours...
It is my own thought that the wish of every "fighting man" is a desire to work himself (herself perhaps) out of a job. The ultimate goal of the "fighting man" is peace. But so long as there are those who would cheat, wrong, defraud, kill and maim others for sport or pleasure, there will be a need for the fighting man.
I've several friends who are still serving abroad and they all have the same basic stories to tell (if they feel like talking about it al all).

I wonder what kind of missions the Taliban player will have in this wargame? Perhaps a whole series that starts out with "Find the woman who's burcha isn't long enough and shoot her in the back of the head execution style". This could be followed up with a stoning of a woman who knew how to read, or spoke in public.
It may be that I am the product of the western culture, I joined the NAVY while Reagan was President, and we here had the "evil" Soviet empire. But before I left the NAVY, it was my great pleasure to visit some of the former Soviet states along the Baltic Sea, and even to sea the wonderful city of St. Petersburg, which just years before would have been unthinkable. Former adversaries can find themselves as the closest of allies, but the things that the Taliban have done in the name of Allah is beyond me.

One more final duty of the fighting man...
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...
 

computerex

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Oh my God, I really don't know if you are serious or if you are just joking...

No, I am not joking, I am serious.

Iberville said:
In real life, I am an Army officer and i just completed a tour of duty in Afghanistan (working in a provincial reconstruction team). I have seen with my own eyes kids killed by IEDs and Afghans elders killed during meetings (that they call Shuras in Pashtuns, not pathan) by suicide attacks. I have seen newly built afghan institutions destroyed by insurgents that prefer chaos and murders instead of order like in a civilized country. I have seen honest workers killed because they sold or worked to or with ISAF members, just to gain bread and butter for their family. I have seen young police officer hung from a tree and indicated as traitor...
And belive me, I did not see a lot of book!

Shura means elders. In Urdu we refer to Afghani as Pathans. In case you haven't noticed, the country is at war. The unrest that you see was not present a decade ago, or rather I should say, it was tamed. But your arguments are invalid, because that type of stuff takes place everywhere in the world. But I was talking about the people themselves. Talibans are excellent, hospitable people. Don't characterize them by the actions of some criminals.

Iberville said:
Everything in this country is a game of power: you will invite people to your home to show that you have a great home, that you are good, etc... If it fits your interest, you will even have a NATO general to eat at your table, only to stabe him in the back after. Talibans have absolutely no sens of honnor or no sense of what is a civilized people. And It probably have nothing to do with Islam. I could go on and on about that topic and fill this whole forum about examples.

You clearly know nothing about the cultural values of that region. Everything is about honor. Why is the divorce rate in countries such as Pakistan/India so low? It is because divorce is a sign of disgrace, dishonor.


iberville said:
During this time, westerners are dying to stabilize this country, to build institutions for the Afghans, to help kids go to school, and for what benefit? Certainly no oil or resources.

Should I continue???

You are so naive if you really believe that. Countries don't spend billions of dollars because they are selfless, there is always an underlying reason. In case of Afghanistan, I think the reason for the invasion is the general projection of power over the region. We have started two wars in the region in this decade, and we are about to start a third one.

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

The Taliban and Al Qaeda are barbarians and they are stuck in some dark age from the past. They don't care about life. They place no value in life, instead they worship death.

Well, I can say the same thing about the westerners. In the end none of our words really matter. We all defend what we believe to be right. You have your opinion and I have mine.
 

Mantis

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Well, I can say the same thing about the westerners. In the end none of our words really matter. We all defend what we believe to be right. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Western civilization may not be perfect but there is no equating the depravity of the crimes of the Taliban to anythig that goes on here. I've seen footage of a little boy who was held down and had his arm run over by a truck because he stole a loaf of bread to feed his family. This kid was maybe 8 years old. They throw acid in the faces of little girls who dare to go to school and educate themselves. They hanged a 7 year old boy for speaking to NATO troops. They shoot women for being outside on their own or for not covering themselves from head toe. They stone rape victims to death for "adultery". They trick the mentally challenged and even small children into becoming unwitting suicide bombers. They blow up schools and then, when police and rescue people arrive to help, they send in the suicide bombers and blow them up too. These are not the acts of a peaceful, sane people. These are acts of extreme barbarism and extreme depravity. To paraphrase former Israeli PM Golda Mier, "there will never be peace until they learn to love their children more than they hate us."
 

Hielor

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I hope to dear god that someday by some miracle westerners will learn to read a book.
:facepalm:
I'm really confused by this statement. It's phrased like it's supposed to be an insult, but it just doesn't make sense.

Let's look at worldwide literacy rates:
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate"]List of countries by literacy rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Virtually the entire world is >90%, with two very notable exceptions: Africa and the Middle East. All of the traditional "western" countries are >97%.

It also doesn't make sense in light of what has been pointed out by others in this thread: In areas of the Middle East, young girls are beaten or killed for going to school and trying to "learn to read a book." Suicide bombers hit girls' schools, killing hundreds of innocent and defenseless girls. Where's the honor in that?

I hope to dear god that someday by some miracle the Middle Easterners will let everyone learn to read a book.
 

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You think bandeau look cool?

At the time, games were too polygonal to make out some bandeaus. :lol: And I don't remember Rambo wearing one! :rofl:

---------- Post added at 08:39 ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 ----------

Yea, you'll see when the KGB comes and takes you away in a black van...

It was black in urban legends only. In reality, it usually was gray with sign "BREAD" on the side.

But nowadays, they've got a freedom (by a recent Presidental decree) to send an official warning to a citizen who they believe is taking up undesired activities, so I get a chance not to be caught in surprise.
 

computerex

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:facepalm:
I'm really confused by this statement. It's phrased like it's supposed to be an insult, but it just doesn't make sense.

Sorry, worded incorrectly. What I meant was, maybe someday the westerners will learn to respect other people's cultures/values instead of believing theirs are the best. Honestly, people don't even take the time to learn. Look at the mosque dilemma that is taking place right now.

some opposer said:
Muslims build Mosques in countries they have conquered so this Mosque is totally appropriate.

OR:

another guy said:
This mosque that they're trying to build, all it is a training center. In Islam, a mosque means we have conquered this country.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129324342

Statements like that, that is, statements that prove the speaker to be a complete moron, really annoy the rest of us. The worst part is, you hear these things all the time, everywhere.


Heilor said:
In areas of the Middle East, young girls are beaten or killed for going to school and trying to "learn to read a book." Suicide bombers hit girls' schools, killing hundreds of innocent and defenseless girls. Where's the honor in that?


They have a different cultural mindset. No parent wants harm to their children, those people are humans too. There notion of life is that men earn the money, and women take care of the children/housework. That is just how things are. And as far as the beatings are concerned, that is normal too. Every child gets beaten, discipline is important. I myself have gotten beaten on countless occasions, by my parents, by my school teachers. But the intelligent children realize that the parents only want good for their children, and that they are overall more wise then us.

I'll give you an anecdote. One of my teachers, Qari Unis, was very harsh and strict. One day he had a disagreement with the administration of the school, and he decided to leave. When he was packing up, everyone of his students started crying, and they begged the administration to resolve the issue. You'd think that the children would want to get rid of someone who leaves marks over their body on a regular basis.

The notion of someone who is born and raised in a western cultured country understanding that type of social structure is insane. You have to spend time with those people to understand. It is really annoying that western ignorance gives us all a bad name. It is high time that the west makes an effort to respect other people instead of viewing them all as uncivilized animals.
 

SiberianTiger

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I spent half of my life in that region. I have taliban friends, and I can be in fact considered a taliban. I have a beard, long hair for the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad. The hospitality towards guests, family values, the general treatment of one another is such that the western world can't even imagine.
People there (not in Pakistan, I mean the "pathan", afghani people) are selfless.


It is the western world that is barbaric and animal like. I hope to dear god that someday by some miracle westerners will learn to read a book.

And by your location icon I can assume you are now happily living in the land of infidels and enjoying full protection of law and counter-terrorism measures, as well as freedom to express whatever life views you like. I wonder, why the situation can't be inversed?
 

Xyon

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It is really annoying that western ignorance gives us all a bad name.

It is somewhat more annoying that what appears to be your own personal ignorance leads you to believe every fault with the world is due to Western Ignorance, or the general evils of Westerners. Stop that. It isn't true.
 

computerex

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It is somewhat more annoying that what appears to be your own personal ignorance leads you to believe every fault with the world is due to Western Ignorance, or the general evils of Westerners. Stop that. It isn't true.

I am sorry if it came out that way, I didn't know I was saying that. What I meant to say is that the western ignorance about the middle east is annoying when they make the rest of us appear as monsters.


SiberianTiger said:
And by your location icon I can assume you are now happily living in the land of infidels and enjoying full protection of law and counter-terrorism measures, as well as freedom to express whatever life views you like. I wonder, why the situation can't be inversed?

Times were getting bad in Pakistan (they are worse now, thanks to Allah we were able to get out before the worst, which is yet to come), family was struggling to survive. It was either come here or die situation.

But as far as the enjoyment is concerned, I agree that the west has resources. Here I can get an education I never could in Pakistan, and I take every chance to exploit this opportunity. But life here isn't all that great. My dad, who had a business in Pakistan and was his own master, now works for someone else. My mom, who had never worked a day in her life, now has to work as well. And this kills the parents because they believe that they can't spend enough time with their children. All of my parents considerable number of relatives are still in Pakistan, so their life is essentially composed of going to sleep, then going to work, with no other source of entertainment. That is not what I call enjoyment. Being classified as a terrorist everywhere you go because you have a beard ;) So fun.
 

Xyon

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I am sorry if it came out that way, I didn't know I was saying that. What I meant to say is that the western ignorance about the middle east is annoying when they make the rest of us appear as monsters.

Good good, misunderstanding is unfortunate but happens. Never mind.

But life here isn't all that great. My dad, who had a business in Pakistan and was his own master, now works for someone else. My mom, who had never worked a day in her life, now has to work as well. And this kills the parents because they believe that they can't spend enough time with their children.

This is, sadly, the story of many people in the western world, immigrant to it or not. I know it's the one my parents had when my sister and I were children.

All of my parents considerable number of relatives are still in Pakistan, so their life is essentially composed of going to sleep, then going to work, with no other source of entertainment. That is not what I call enjoyment.

You need relatives local to have entertainment? I keep myself entertained just fine without, personally.

Being classified as a terrorist everywhere you go because you have a beard ;) So fun.

Yeah, that last part I'll concede is down to ignorance of westerners, or more accurately, a select type of person who unhappily happens to live and work in the same places as I do. I'd really rather they didn't, personally.
 

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Ah, yes. The 'orrible, 'orrible West... That however managed to develop the vast majority of innovations that improved human existence. And the ignorant West that manages to produce most of the culture around.
 

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You need relatives local to have entertainment? I keep myself entertained just fine without, personally.

We had at least one family over to our house whenever we were there, the rest of the time we spent in someone else's house :p Very social society, and hospitable. For instance, even though we hardly had any money, we'd always arrange some so that the guests could have something decent to eat. The children had strict guidelines, to not eat anything that is present in small quantity, or to not eat anything until the guests have gone. It is because of this we have a concept of "Takaluf", that is where if you go to someone's house, and they offer you something, you don't accept it until they insist to the point where they are physically shoving the thing down your throat.

---------- Post added at 01:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------

Ah, yes. The 'orrible, 'orrible West... That however managed to develop the vast majority of innovations that improved human existence. And the ignorant West that manages to produce most of the culture around.

Read your history. It is the east that formed the foundation upon which the west built upon.
 

Xyon

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Didn't this start out as a discussion of a new computer game? I think it'd be good if we stopped having a massive "East vs. West" argument and got back to the original topic now.
 

computerex

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Then I guess you can live in a house of which only the foundations have been laid.:lol:

Well without a firm foundation you won't get anywhere. Unfortunately people always tend to forget the east's contribution to our technological advances, and credit the west exclusively. Your comment is indicative of that. This has been like this for a long time. You only learn American/European history in high school, and even in a university level World History course you are focused on Western history, and barely spend any time on the Eastern history. Newton had reasons for saying he saw far because he stood on the shoulders of giants: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe"]Islamic contributions to Medieval Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

EDIT:

Xyon is right, we should get back on topic. So I would like to say: A video game is a video game, it is not designed to accurately portray anyone, it is designed for entertainment purpose, so what the heck ;)
 

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Didn't this start out as a discussion of a new computer game? I think it'd be good if we stopped having a massive "East vs. West" argument and got back to the original topic now.

Hm, "East vs West" sounds like a good title. There was a "Us vs Them" arcade game once, and if I'm not mistaken it was a shoot-em-up.
 

Xyon

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Hm, "East vs West" sounds like a good title. There was a "Us vs Them" arcade game once, and if I'm not mistaken it was a shoot-em-up.

East vs. West was more my description of what was going on in this thread than of the game itself, I haven't looked at it in any great detail. :lol:
 

Ghostrider

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You only learn American/European history in high school, and even in a university level World History course you are focused on Western history, and barely spend any time on the Eastern history.

Bizarre. I've spent a good lot of my history lessons in high school studying the contributions of the Moors to astronomy and medicine, must have been on another planet. Most medieval scholars thought highly of Ibn Sina, Ibn Gabirol and Ibn Zuhr. Marco Polo surely held Kublay Khan's China in great esteem. Maybe we Westerners have more of an appreciation for Eastern culture than you credit us for.

Of course, we are mostly concerned with our own history because that's what we're expected to know. But before any further rant against the West, consider what Western civilization has been capable to achieve before dismissing it as "ignorant" or "barbaric".
 

computerex

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Bizarre. I've spent a good lot of my history lessons in high school studying the contributions of the Moors to astronomy and medicine, must have been on another planet. Most medieval scholars thought highly of Ibn Sina, Ibn Gabirol and Ibn Zuhr. Marco Polo surely held Kublay Khan's China in great esteem. Maybe we Westerners have more of an appreciation for Eastern culture than you credit us for.

That was then. This is now. I am in High school, now. I am not lying to you. I took the high school World History, as well as the university level World History. In fact, in the University level course the teacher complained about how the course teaches us things that were important several decades ago, and how little students know about eastern history.

Ghost said:
But before any further rant against the West, consider what Western civilization has been capable to achieve before dismissing it as "ignorant" or "barbaric".

#1 - I didn't refer to the western civilization as "barbaric".
#2 - You have to be living under a rock to believe that the majority of the west knows much about anything that goes on in the east. Honestly, for god sakes we are having a Quran burning party next week in Gainesville as a protest for the mosque. That in itself says a lot. People now want to burn the holy scripture of 1.5 billion people. Switzerland bans the construction of minarets. U.K/France are trying to ban the Islamic burkha. That in itself is fine, but their reasons for doing so are indicative of how ignorant they are.
 

Xyon

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#1 - I didn't refer to the western civilization as "barbaric".

It is the western world that is barbaric and animal like. I hope to dear god that someday by some miracle westerners will learn to read a book.

For the purpose of pointing out how simple it is to prove that point when it was posted not 1000 px up on the same page, and only that purpose.

I stand by my earlier comment.
 
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