DIRECT Launcher - Augustine Video

[Arrowstar]

Here's a thread from the NASASpaceFlight.com forums containing a video that the DIRECT team put together. I watched it and found it interesting, so I thought I'd pass it along.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=19211.0

 

[lennartsmit]

Quite a nationalistic video. Gives me the creeps.
Quite interesting though.

 

[Donamy]

The talk they use in the film, of Shuttle Derived Vehicle, doesn't necessarily mean Direct.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Nationalistic, well sure... it is about our own nation's space program after all. I did sort of cringe at the comments about the Russian space program. I don't think anyone is "assaulting" us anymore in that department. Falling behind on your own progress does not constitute an assault by someone you view as a competitor.

Also the music sort of bugs me. They're trying to play on your emotions here. It's essentially propaganda.

All that aside, I think the more directly Shuttle derived system sounds like a good option as well. Nevertheless, what this video does ignore is the commercial sector, with companies like SpaceX getting ever closer to being able to perform some of the same tasks that the Shuttle is currently responsible for.

I think manned spaceflight is exciting and probably necessary to a certain degree, but with so many problems here on Earth, economic and otherwise, a government-run and -funded space program seems less and less important to me. That could just be the private businessman in me speaking though!

 

[eveningsky339]

The beginning of the video was shady... didn't the Cold War end quite some time ago? They talk as though Russia and China are going to nuke us at any moment.

Anyway, this video seems to be based on an emotional appeal, judging from the way music is utilized. ...Has anyone seen the movie, The Gift? I'm pretty sure this video took the liberty of borrowing some music.

 

[Arrowstar]

The talk they use in the film, of Shuttle Derived Vehicle, doesn't necessarily mean Direct.

This is true, but given the team the video was developed by, I would assume the implication is for a DIRECT SD HLV, and if (and only if) that is no longer an option would they support another SD HLV implementation.

Anyway, yes, it was very much a play on emotions, and I wasn't a fan of that aspect by any means. It is hard, I have to admit, sorting out the fact from fiction when you listen to the DIRECT people, the Ares people, the NSC people, and on and on and on...

 

[Zachstar]

Its called politics. Don't like it? Then don't care about Space because they are directly connected.

I am astonished by the reaction of some in this forum. Especially as many are you are fellow Americans. Do you have any idea how much of your tax money has been wasted by the goons who have run this "Safe Simple Soon" show?

Yes Direct is getting mean. Its about time they stopped acting like only numbers matter. ATK and others are masters at manipulating numbers and running with the money in my opinion. Then outright slandering Direct and its followers when NASA does not follow in lockstep.

BTW Geopolitical politics can change in an instant. There was talk of ending purchases of russian Soyuz seats during the conflict. A move that would have ended our presence on the ISS.

---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------

Quite a nationalistic video. Gives me the creeps.
Quite interesting though.

Its a USA only issue. Its highly doubtful Orion will even dock at the ISS before it is deorbited. And seats will only be offered by some sort of political move to carry astronauts from other nations to the moon.

Sorry to be very forward about that. But it is a very sensitive topic. We just endured more than half a decade of NASA leadership that was hellbent on ramming bad ideas into the picture and discouraging dissent.

Now our manned program future is in shambles. Shuttle simply cant fly any further past 2015 (And that will require HUGELY expensive steps) Ares is a Joke Orion is a not so funny joke that tries to fit on the joke that is Ares 1. Ares V is unlikely to be funded. Etc...

 

[Ark]

I was not impressed by the Cold War-style attempts to dredge up some fear of the Reds. They've got a powerful argument on their side already, they're just demeaning themselves by resorting to that political smear campaign-level crap.

The Ares program is going nowhere, Ares I is nothing more than a glorified model rocket, and Ares V is still entirely on the drawing board. Direct offers a powerful, versatile, and quick-to-develop solution that doesn't require five or more years of no spaceflight at all and essentially giving up on the ISS.

 

[Zachstar]

Direct is not gaining any ground with pansy number throwing that ATK and crew take and spin to pete knows where.

They have to get political and get to the core of the issue. Things may appear bright and easy to see on a space forum. But out in RL all people hear about are Jobs and stay the course and all that crap.

 

[Moonwalker]

I didn't look the entire video. The beginning tells that this is a bigoted individual story of emotions and opinions. Nothing of significance. Nothing of objectivity. If that's really from the DIRECT team, from now on I seriously doubt that the team consists of serious NASA people, or at least, I can quite understand why NASA does not involve certain persons in its decisions.

I don't think it is a good idea to start making propaganda by starting to become nationalistic and predict a dark future. They're going to lose credit but just gain compliance of persons who don't have to say anything of importance in the real business I think. I don't agree with them from the beginning and I won't help making their video "go viral" for youtube and facebook kids. It seems they turn into a playschool, full of defiant kids.

 

[T.Neo]

The beginning tells that this is a bigoted individual story of emotions and opinions.

No offence, but pretty much all of the comments you've made on the subject are mostly opinion and emotion.

I too did not watch the entire video, but what I did see disappointed me. Nationalistic doom-views are never constructive.

 

[SiberianTiger]

I too did not watch the entire video, but what I did see disappointed me. Nationalistic doom-views are never constructive.

Well, why not? Another name for them is a driving spirit of competition.

 

[Moonwalker]

No offence, but pretty much all of the comments you've made on the subject are mostly opinion and emotion.

It is basically a realization that, by proper funding, Constellation and the Ares launchers is the right path for the manned future of a space agency like NASA. But my little forum voice is insignificant and NASA already has chosen its right path anyway. But the voices of the DIRECT team members are not insignificant to some degree. They're now trying to reach a lot of people with their nationalistic end-time-mood opinions about NASA, since their earlier "friendly" tries of convincing responsible persons did not work. If I'd be a responsable person at NASA, and if I would find out who is behind DIRECT and works for NASA and does that kind of inappropriate anti-propaganda, I'd write letters of dismissal. The mutual trust is disturbed. It is not possible to work together in the long term under such circumstances.

 

[Donamy]

You underestimate the power of the masses, and thier affect on politicians. How do you think Enterprise got it's name?

 

[T.Neo]

You underestimate the power of the masses, and thier affect on politicians. How do you think Enterprise got it's name?

NASA officials were threatened by trekkies with phasers? :rofl:

 

[Donamy]

It worked.

 

[zerofay32]

And it satisfied everyone enough that no one cared it didn't fly in orbit. Which shows the have a lot of power, but are easy to satisfiy.

 

[lindemherz]

Oh, I see what they did there. This video is not for us, it is for Joe Sixpack, the same Joe Sixpack who was scared into supporting the war on Irak and got laid off from GM, and while supportive of the government but not of its officials and who might remember the Reagan red scares of his youth, so he will be moved into sending a letter to his representative.

That is, the kind of person who can't understand the numbers (even if he would agree with them if he could) but hopefully can do *something* about this whole issue. Assuming that most of the people who can understand and can do something are either locked into CxP by interests, or fragmented all over the place between the options (including CxP because they just don't wanna admit their hero has mud feet), I wouldn't say DIRECT is stooping to a new low - DIRECT is opening a new battlefront. Welcome to the world of politics, something it had valiantly tried to avoid before, but you cannot be the only waterboy in a world of dragons.

That said, I think that, under that perspective, the political/public relations intonation of the video is brilliant, except for the little fact tha Joe Sixpack can barely sit for a 30 seconds ad, let alone an almost 20 long minute infomercial. In that it fails miserably.


Ah, and Moonwalker, "anti-propaganda"? "Letters of dismissal"? WTF dude, are you George Abbey or something? That's precisely why NASA HSF has been reduced to a sad mess since the start of the shuttle program, what brought us Challenger AND Columbia and all the trouble with CxP, because when people wanted to say that there was a problem, the big wigs either didn't listen or made them pay for saying something they didn't want to hear. That's precisely what kills "mutual trust." And astronauts.

 

[zerofay32]

This video is not for us, it is for Joe Sixpack...

Exactly.

 

[Zachstar]

It is basically a realization that, by proper funding, Constellation and the Ares launchers is the right path for the manned future of a space agency like NASA. But my little forum voice is insignificant and NASA already has chosen its right path anyway. But the voices of the DIRECT team members are not insignificant to some degree. They're now trying to reach a lot of people with their nationalistic end-time-mood opinions about NASA, since their earlier "friendly" tries of convincing responsible persons did not work. If I'd be a responsable person at NASA, and if I would find out who is behind DIRECT and works for NASA and does that kind of inappropriate anti-propaganda, I'd write letters of dismissal. The mutual trust is disturbed. It is not possible to work together in the long term under such circumstances.

What?

Already chosen the right path? You mean the one that involves a launcher that is more expensive and can launch less into orbit with more risk? The one where Ares V has no chance in hell of being funded.

In my opinion you do not understand US politics as well as I do. Pansy number pushing does not work here and I HIGHLY doubt that is different in your nation as well. Emotion wins period. Do people care that solar can reduce the max load on the grid helping to reduce the chance of blackouts? Nope! But cute polar bears? PANIC!!!! Greenwash everything!

BTW You don't just hunt down and fire a person for expressing his 1st Amendment rights. And NASA is owned by the taxpayers and cant just decide those who are against the buzz must go. Mutual trust? You mean running a shop that stiffles ideas and free thought? Thanks but no