Updates Ariane 6 Updates

Notebook

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
11,150
Reaction score
126
Points
138
The basic design for Europe's next generation rocket, the Ariane 6, has been selected.
It will be powered by two solid-fuelled lower stages and incorporate the liquid-fuelled upper-stage currently being developed as an upgrade for the existing Ariane 5 vehicle.
The concept was chosen following six months of trade-off studies.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23241158

N.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Alfastar

да
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
463
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
3rd Rock from sun
"The development cost to first launch is likely to be in the region of about 3bn euros"

Well, need we serious a Araine 6? I don't think so. And the development costs make it for my a nono-project in my eyes for now.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
35,604
Reaction score
106
Points
153
Location
Langendernbach
Well, all as expected.

Remember that 3 billion means in the end 30 million Euro pure R&D costs in the launch costs for the expected 100 launches. Even if you let the tax payer pay this, it is pretty expensive relative to the performance of the rocket.

But it is good that it also means that the Ariane 5 ME is not dead at all. Possibly we will even see a Ariane 5 ME+. It is cheaper to make the Ariane 5 ME more cost efficient, than to make the Ariane 6 perform better.
 

Alfastar

да
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
463
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
3rd Rock from sun
Well, all as expected.

Remember that 3 billion means in the end 30 million Euro pure R&D costs in the launch costs for the expected 100 launches. Even if you let the tax payer pay this, it is pretty expensive relative to the performance of the rocket.

But it is good that it also means that the Ariane 5 ME is not dead at all. Possibly we will even see a Ariane 5 ME+. It is cheaper to make the Ariane 5 ME more cost efficient, than to make the Ariane 6 perform better.
I agree with you point. I surely bet a Ariane-5 ME development cost are less then the development cost of a Ariane 6. Simple because you need develop much if you build a total new rocket.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
35,604
Reaction score
106
Points
153
Location
Langendernbach
I agree with you point. I surely bet a Ariane-5 ME development cost are less then the development cost of a Ariane 6. Simple because you need develop much if you build a total new rocket.
Well, remember that the first stage development of the Ariane 6 would have good chances to become booster of an improved Ariane 5. The money would be far from lost, also of course, the French ICBMs will thank you as european tax payer as well (though not more than what the French tax payer paid into the ESA budget - and that will be less in the future, if the French economy stagnates much longer).
 

N_Molson

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
6,856
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Toulouse
So they named it "Vulcain 2.1", which makes sense, as it seems to be a minor Vulcain 2 improvement.

There are several design updates but the main visible difference between the model powering today’s Ariane 5 and the Vulcain 2.1 for Ariane 6 is the nozzle.

A more robust nozzle was formed by laser-welding two sheets of metal while creating cooling channels inside.

Structural reinforcements are 3D printed which increases production rate and lowers manufacturing costs.

There are two main changes in how the engine works.

Expensive liquid helium is no longer needed because heated oxygen in the exhaust lines now pressurises the oxygen tank.

The new engine is ignited from the ground via the bottom of the nozzle instead of by pyrotechnic devices inside the motor, reducing the cost and weight.
 

Notebook

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
11,150
Reaction score
126
Points
138
Expensive liquid helium is no longer needed because heated oxygen in the exhaust lines now pressurises the oxygen tank.

I'm guessing its gaseous Oxygen, generated through a heat-exchanger?

Also, the ignition method. Isn't the idea that you ignite the propellants in the combustion chamber?
Are they going to ignite the liquids in the nozzle, and hope it burns back into the chamber?

N.
 
Last edited:

N_Molson

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
6,856
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Toulouse
Are they going to ignite the liquids in the nozzle, and hope it burns back into the chamber?
It seems to me that the SSME (RS-25) always worked like that. During Shuttle launches, you have those "spark igniters" that fire right under the nozzles.
 

Notebook

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
11,150
Reaction score
126
Points
138
I thought they were to burn off any stray Hydrogen?

N.
 

kuddel

Donator
Donator
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
1,500
Reaction score
28
Points
48
The "spark igniters" for SSME are just to burn off stray hydrogen, like Notebook said.

The new engine is ignited from the ground via the bottom of the nozzle instead of by pyrotechnic devices inside the motor, reducing the cost and weight.
This can still mean its ignition takes place in the combustion chamber (I imagine a long match peeking waaay inside :) )
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
35,604
Reaction score
106
Points
153
Location
Langendernbach
It seems to me that the SSME (RS-25) always worked like that. During Shuttle launches, you have those "spark igniters" that fire right under the nozzles.
Those are ROFI pyrotechnics are just for burning up any gaseous hydrogen that leaves the engine during ignition or shutdown. Remember, hydrogen climbs up rapidly under normal atmosphere, without ROFI, enough could accumulate under the nozzle bell to damage the engine during an unwanted ignition. Consider this precaution - most other hydrogen fueled rocket engines don't use them (But the RS-68 does as well)

The SSME is ignited by three augmented spark igniters (ASI), which are pretty much small pressure fed combustion chambers, ignited by a pair of large spark plugs. H2 and O2 are mixed in them and ignited by electrical charges to create a flame strong enough to reliable start combustion in the main chamber or the preburners. You have one ASI for the main chamber and one ASI for each preburner.

Those spark plugs in the SSME look like this:



See also here:

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2011/ph240/nguyen1/docs/SSME_PRESENTATION.pdf
 
Last edited:

N_Molson

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
6,856
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Toulouse
Thanks for the clarification, the SSME still amazes me.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
35,604
Reaction score
106
Points
153
Location
Langendernbach

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
35,604
Reaction score
106
Points
153
Location
Langendernbach
Update to this one: The engine was tested yesterday.

http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10081/151_read-25584/#/gallery/29560

The article also describes some of the other changes between Vulcain 2 and Vulcain 2.1, especially the 3D printed gas generator and the simplified nozzle structure. This test did still use internal pyrotechnical igniters as in the Vulcain 2, later tests will switch to use propane gas supplied from the test stand as ignition fuel.
 

Notebook

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
11,150
Reaction score
126
Points
138

Notebook

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
11,150
Reaction score
126
Points
138
26 February 2019
Today, the DLR German Aerospace Center in Lampoldshausen inaugurated a new test facility that simulates launch for the complete Ariane 6 upper stage.
The Lampoldshausen centre makes a key contribution to Europe’s progress in space propulsion and already tests the Ariane 6’s Vulcain 2.1, and Vinci rocket engines. Other rocket engines tested here include the upper-stage expander cycle demonstrator ETID, and recently a 3D-printed thrust chamber designed for storable-propellants, both developed within ESA’s Future Launchers Preparatory Programme.
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Transportation/New_test_facility_for_Ariane_6_upper_stage
 

Notebook

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
11,150
Reaction score
126
Points
138
26 February 2019
Today, the DLR German Aerospace Center in Lampoldshausen inaugurated a new test facility that simulates launch for the complete Ariane 6 upper stage.
The Lampoldshausen centre makes a key contribution to Europe’s progress in space propulsion and already tests the Ariane 6’s Vulcain 2.1, and Vinci rocket engines. Other rocket engines tested here include the upper-stage expander cycle demonstrator ETID, and recently a 3D-printed thrust chamber designed for storable-propellants, both developed within ESA’s Future Launchers Preparatory Programme.
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Transportation/New_test_facility_for_Ariane_6_upper_stage
 
Top