Apollo 9 - orbiter version 1771

thermocalc

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Hi and Happy New Year.

I started Apollo 9 to practice LM and rendezvous, I am now at day 4 at around GET 69h 30m when I am supposed to activate the LM and slowly moving the crew into it. (started from the Apollo 9 with MCC launch scenario).

When time comes to open the CSM tunnel hatch, after having done P51 IMU Orientation, I have all three crew members on SUIT FULL FLOW (300, 301, 302 pnls) with EMERGENCY CABIN PRESSURE – OFF (351 pnl) … and all are OK “green” on PAMFD.

At 69h 25m I do “LMP IVT to LM” from the CSM…so I go into the LM to open the hatch (the CSM hatch was already open before, just after P51). Once both hatches are open, I go back to the CSM and I “CONNECT the CSM O2 HOSES” -> not appearing in the checklist, but suggested by “you” during a similar question for my A11 previous mission, so I guess it is required also here.

1st question:

To open the LM OVH Hatch I need to put the “OVHD CABIN DUMP VALVE to OPEN, if I let in AUTO the hatch doesn’t open; is it normal? later in the checklist it is requested to put back to AUTO…

With the vlv to “OPEN” I carried out all the subsequent LM steps indicated by the checklist starting at T +69:25:00.

2nd questions:

While trying slowly these steps I saved often, and I also noticed that when I save a scenario with the “CSM O2 HOSES – connected”, upon reloading the scenario the hoses get somehow “DISCONNECTED”…I guess should not happen this? Anyway, upon reloading saved scenarios I was immediately reconnecting them by PAMFD before carry on other tasks ...

At about T +69h 42m I am ready to do the “ECS Activation EVA” and other tasks … finally I am back to the CSM to wait for the T +69h 55m MCC update, with the CSM O2 HOSES still connected, and at about +70h 4m I am ready to transfer the LMP to the LM ECS system (followed by the CDR immediately after), photo 1 show the cockpit status I got at this stage.

Up to this moment I have 300-301-302 in SUIT FULL FLOW, the “LMP to LM ECS” CSM checklist ask to put the RH SUIT FLOW vlv to OFF on pnl 300 (LMP side) and remove the LMP from PAMFD ECS page, I guess need only to enter CREW=2.

Next inside the LM I put in PAMFD ECS page crew=1 and LMP=in suit … from photo 2 the C&W lamps status and CO2 meter seems ok … but as soon as I turn the “LM SUIT ISOL vlv to SUIT FLOW” I got a CRITICAL yellow warning light on in PAMFD ECS page and the CO2 LM meter jump to 30 , see photo 3 and 4.

3rd Question: why the CO2 is so high, I used the hoses since the time I opened the hatches about 30-40min earlier …

When later on I am supposed to transfer the CDR into the LM ECS other issues arises;

4th question:

during the CSM “CDR IVT to LM” checklist (see photo 5) why 302 (CDR) should be to CBIN FLOW ? he is in the suit. Should not be put to OFF and than connect him to the LM ECS? (as before was done for the LMP and pnl 300?) ….

But as can be seen in the checklist, few items below, it ask for set pnl 300 to FULL FLOW? This is for the LMP which is already attached to the LM ECS, so he is not connected anymore to the CSM ECS … should not be the 302 panel, for the CDR?

5th question:

Finally during the “CDR to LM ECS” checklist it is stated “RH SUIT FLOW vlv – OFF” on pnl 300 --- should not be pnl 302 for the CDR?

In summary, after having completed the IVT of LMP and CDR should we have (?):

300 -> OFF (LMP);

302 -> OFF (CDR);

301 -> SUIT FLOW (as the CMP is still suited)

And in the LM both “SUIT ISOL vlv” to SUIT FLOW?

Anyway, I set the valves as indicated in my summary (overriding what stated in the checklist), and I got crew=1 in CSM, crew=2 in LM and CDR and LMP in SUIT, as in photo 6 … both CRITICAL … due to CO2 at 30ppm again … keeping going on doing further activities they both DIED (red message) after a while …


Anyway, I got CRITICAL yellow warning light on also the 1st time I entered into the LM, at time of the docked DPS burn,… but no CO2 alarm was there and after 20 min I got the green OK message on PAMFD, so I guess would happen like that also this time, so I pressed on with the others activities…but as said they both died.

6th questions (minor questions):

When asked to closed the LM hatch I was able to close it (even if the CSM O2 hoses were still connected) -> Ok I should have disconnected them before to closing it … but I forgot.

From the other side, once back into the CSM, when asked to close the CSM tunnel hatch if I didn’t disconnect the CSM O2 hoses the hatch didn’t close (which make sense to me as pipes are there…)…

As said, disregarding all I kept going on and after a while I got the message that the crew has DIED.

What to do? Or what I am doing wrong? If you need some scenarios let me know at which time.

Thanks for help.
 

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rcflyinghokie

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At 69h 25m I do “LMP IVT to LM” from the CSM…so I go into the LM to open the hatch (the CSM hatch was already open before, just after P51). Once both hatches are open, I go back to the CSM and I “CONNECT the CSM O2 HOSES” -> not appearing in the checklist, but suggested by “you” during a similar question for my A11 previous mission, so I guess it is required also here.

1st question:

To open the LM OVH Hatch I need to put the “OVHD CABIN DUMP VALVE to OPEN, if I let in AUTO the hatch doesn’t open; is it normal? later in the checklist it is requested to put back to AUTO…

With the vlv to “OPEN” I carried out all the subsequent LM steps indicated by the checklist starting at T +69:25:00.
So the hatch should be in OPEN whenever you are docked and there is no crew in the LM, this allows the LM to actually pressurize/equalize with the tunnel and CM.

Setting it to AUTO doesnt let flow into the LM, only out of the LM. It should already be in OPEN until you get crew in there.

2nd questions:

While trying slowly these steps I saved often, and I also noticed that when I save a scenario with the “CSM O2 HOSES – connected”, upon reloading the scenario the hoses get somehow “DISCONNECTED”…I guess should not happen this? Anyway, upon reloading saved scenarios I was immediately reconnecting them by PAMFD before carry on other tasks ...

At about T +69h 42m I am ready to do the “ECS Activation EVA” and other tasks … finally I am back to the CSM to wait for the T +69h 55m MCC update, with the CSM O2 HOSES still connected, and at about +70h 4m I am ready to transfer the LMP to the LM ECS system (followed by the CDR immediately after), photo 1 show the cockpit status I got at this stage.

Up to this moment I have 300-301-302 in SUIT FULL FLOW, the “LMP to LM ECS” CSM checklist ask to put the RH SUIT FLOW vlv to OFF on pnl 300 (LMP side) and remove the LMP from PAMFD ECS page, I guess need only to enter CREW=2.

Next inside the LM I put in PAMFD ECS page crew=1 and LMP=in suit … from photo 2 the C&W lamps status and CO2 meter seems ok … but as soon as I turn the “LM SUIT ISOL vlv to SUIT FLOW” I got a CRITICAL yellow warning light on in PAMFD ECS page and the CO2 LM meter jump to 30 , see photo 3 and 4.
Again the CSM O2 hose is a temporary fix until I complete the CSM ECS rework. So its functionality is very WIP and just enough to overcome the shortcomings currently in place.

Looking at the panel state, is this your first IVT into the LM? Because you have used up a lot of LM oxygen already. This tells me something went wrong during your LM activation. Also the panel state only tells some of the story as I have no idea which cbs you have closed.

Yes to IVT the LMP, you need to first have the LM ECS running and configured properly, then CSM PAMFD CREW = 2 and then set the LMP to IN SUIT. If you have crew =1 then that means you have 1 in the cabin and 1 in the suit, so looks like you have both crew in there early.

If you get really high CO2 when you turn SUIT FLOW on, that means you had the suit flow valves closed or ECS not active with crew in the suits for a period of time. Again I am thinking you did the IVT incorrectly here.

3rd Question: why the CO2 is so high, I used the hoses since the time I opened the hatches about 30-40min earlier …

When later on I am supposed to transfer the CDR into the LM ECS other issues arises;
See above, you had to have had crew in the suits in the LM without the ECS running for some time.

4th question:

during the CSM “CDR IVT to LM” checklist (see photo 5) why 302 (CDR) should be to CBIN FLOW ? he is in the suit. Should not be put to OFF and than connect him to the LM ECS? (as before was done for the LMP and pnl 300?) ….

But as can be seen in the checklist, few items below, it ask for set pnl 300 to FULL FLOW? This is for the LMP which is already attached to the LM ECS, so he is not connected anymore to the CSM ECS … should not be the 302 panel, for the CDR?
The SUIT FLOW valves currently do not work as they are intended, so this step really doesnt matter right now. But from the procedures, you return the first crew to IVT to OFF and then it goes back to full flow when both the CDR and LMP are disconnected. I will do some more homework on this but for now I wouldnt worry about it, just follow the checklist.

5th question:

Finally during the “CDR to LM ECS” checklist it is stated “RH SUIT FLOW vlv – OFF” on pnl 300 --- should not be pnl 302 for the CDR?
This again doesnt matter as much as any crew could hook up to any hose. It was more based on the couch position rather than crew position. But this of course will be polished with the ECS rework.

Anyway, I got CRITICAL yellow warning light on also the 1st time I entered into the LM, at time of the docked DPS burn,… but no CO2 alarm was there and after 20 min I got the green OK message on PAMFD, so I guess would happen like that also this time, so I pressed on with the others activities…but as said they both died.
So now I am really thinking you did something wrong during the docked DPS burn and the IVTs. Do you have saves during the docked DPS and before this IVT? I might be able to pinpoint what you did wrong here.

6th questions (minor questions):

When asked to closed the LM hatch I was able to close it (even if the CSM O2 hoses were still connected) -> Ok I should have disconnected them before to closing it … but I forgot.

From the other side, once back into the CSM, when asked to close the CSM tunnel hatch if I didn’t disconnect the CSM O2 hoses the hatch didn’t close (which make sense to me as pipes are there…)…
Yeah again the "CSM O2 Hose" is WIP, but you need to disconnect it before closing the CM hatch otherwise it wont close.

Another thing on your Photo 4 your suit pressure is through the roof, so you certainly have some configuration incorrect.
 
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thermocalc

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Hi thanks for your prompt reply,
I need to do more testing based on your explanations, but I think I may have problems to understand how to use the PAMFD ECS page in the LM correctly for IVT reading your reply… or at least doubts, so please let me know if I do something wrong there.

If I am in the CSM and I hit CRW I can set 3 or 2 or 1 depending on how many people are still there…but the CDR and LMP buttons on the left, if I click them, I see nothing happen on the screen…(I guess they are meant only for the LM ?)

So when usually it is requested to “Open PAMFD – press ECS – remove LMP” I set CRW=2 and then I switch to the LM (without hitting the LMP push button on the CSM PAMFD ECS page).

Once inside the LM, on the PAMFD ECS page, first I enter CRW=1 and then hit LMP until I see: Crew number 1, CDR status: In cabin, LMP status: in Suit.

Is correct up to here?

Once later on, I need to transfer the CDR, I do: in the CSM -> set CRW=1 getting “crew number 1”, again without hitting the CDR left button, but I switch to the LM -> set CRW=2 but I get “crew number 3” (why?), so I ri-enter CRW=1 and I get “crew number 2”, after I hit CDR and finally I read:

Crew number 2, CDR status: In Suit, LMP status: in Suit.

Is correct up to here as well?

BUT I am confused: in the LM the number of people I enter in CRW is the TOTAL number of people in the cabin (which can be either “in cabin” or “in suit”) ? or each time I press CRW it is merely the number of people I add TO THE ONE ALREADY PRESENT? or simply is the number of crew "in cabin" - and as the LMP is already in the suit it is not in the cabin?


About the OPEN OVHD DUMP vlv. – in my saved scenario at time of the 1st IVT from CSM to LM I saw that it was OPEN, so not sure why the 2nd time at about 69h30m it was on AUTO … I will recheck the checklist if somewhere is written to move it back from AUTO to OPEN sometime after the LM deactivation and closed out before the SPS 5 burn. IF not stated it means I moved by myself by mistake and now I know it is a different thing.

However reading my own notes I am not sure if I had used the CSM O2 HOSES connected at all times before the DPS docked burn … (I discovered only later on that the hoses got “disconnected” upon reloading scenarios, so I may have forgot to reconnect them) … so I will try first from there, from the 1st IVT into the LM paying more attentions, if still I got the CRITICAL warning message I will post the scenario.

Looking back to all my saved scenarios when the LM was deactivated after the DPS Docked burn I do see that OVH DUMP valve always on AUTO, and the lever was on UNLOCK position, so it was on AUTO for long time (from LM closeout to new LM ingress) and the SUIT ISOL vlv where both on SUIT DISC … I guess they were put there once all crew members got back into the CSM (?)…. But not sure if it was written in the checklist to put back them to SUIT DISC or they somehow automatically move back to that position when everything was powered off losing pressure…or I somehow put by mistake (?)...surely they put to ON when people got in and the CO2 gauge sky rocket up.

So in a nutshell, at time when the LM is deactivated and closed (after the DPS burn) and the time comes to enter again at about 69:25 in which position the valves in the LM should be put? (as everything else is deactivated, I guess only valves positions may make a difference…) -> LM OVH DUMP vlv to OPEN now is clear, so shall I need to let also the SUIT ISOL vlv to SUIT FLOW at all times ? (even if there are no hoses connected to them? As the crew is back to the CSM and both tunnels are closed and sealed). Something else? I will try again all steps but still any help/suggestions will help me out ... will take a couple of day to do again everything :cry:

Thanks for helping again.

PS: FP6 manual reading is in progress for my “abandoned” A11 mission … ahahah ... not so much for the LM AOH :cry: .... as it is obvious by my questions about LM ECS ...
 

thermocalc

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Hi, I just tried the 1st IVT at time 42h 10m and I got again the CRITICAL crew conditions status.

Here what I have done.

I started from the scenario named “T +41h 51m go into LM” and I proceed up to the scenario “T +42h 13m LMP to LM ECS” … the CMS O2 HOSES where connected once both tunnel hatches were opened (see photo 1) -> if you reload the scenario probably they will be "disconnected" but they were connected all time ... I just saved the scenarios at different times with scenario editor but i never stop running the simulations...

At 42:13:00 I went into the LM to do all activation steps mentioned in the LM checklist, I finished all of them by 42:20 and I got the crew in CRITICAL conditions (see photo 2, scenario “T +42h 20m back into CSM all hatches closed”).

At 42:28 I was in the AOT nav star visibility PAD attitude and at 42:36 I got the green OK crew status message (see photo 3), exactly as the first time I tried the procedure…and the LM HATCH DUMP vlv was set to AUTO by a checklist item.

As the crew is safe I can start again from here to do the rest of the journey, and I will use your suggestions/comments mentioned earlier, and see if I can save the crew this time; of course before to start I will wait for your comments about this earlier CRITICAL warning issue.

Thanks.
 

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rcflyinghokie

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If I am in the CSM and I hit CRW I can set 3 or 2 or 1 depending on how many people are still there…but the CDR and LMP buttons on the left, if I click them, I see nothing happen on the screen…(I guess they are meant only for the LM ?)

So when usually it is requested to “Open PAMFD – press ECS – remove LMP” I set CRW=2 and then I switch to the LM (without hitting the LMP push button on the CSM PAMFD ECS page).

Once inside the LM, on the PAMFD ECS page, first I enter CRW=1 and then hit LMP until I see: Crew number 1, CDR status: In cabin, LMP status: in Suit.

Is correct up to here?
The CSM is just total crew right now, no suits or cabin etc. So you change that number as necessary.

To IVT the LMP, if your LMP is in his suit, you need to make sure ECS is all running and configured properly, and suit flow is flowing on the LMP suit. In the PAMFD, its CRW=1 and then put LMP "In Suit"

Once later on, I need to transfer the CDR, I do: in the CSM -> set CRW=1 getting “crew number 1”, again without hitting the CDR left button, but I switch to the LM -> set CRW=2 but I get “crew number 3” (why?), so I ri-enter CRW=1 and I get “crew number 2”, after I hit CDR and finally I read:

Crew number 2, CDR status: In Suit, LMP status: in Suit.

Is correct up to here as well?
By typing 2 in the CRW you are telling it to add 2 more crew members. Basically that number corresponds to crew in cabin when you first put it in. So to IVT the CDR, same process as the LMP.

BUT I am confused: in the LM the number of people I enter in CRW is the TOTAL number of people in the cabin (which can be either “in cabin” or “in suit”) ? or each time I press CRW it is merely the number of people I add TO THE ONE ALREADY PRESENT? or simply is the number of crew "in cabin" - and as the LMP is already in the suit it is not in the cabin?
Crew in cabin in this case, see above.

About the OPEN OVHD DUMP vlv. – in my saved scenario at time of the 1st IVT from CSM to LM I saw that it was OPEN, so not sure why the 2nd time at about 69h30m it was on AUTO … I will recheck the checklist if somewhere is written to move it back from AUTO to OPEN sometime after the LM deactivation and closed out before the SPS 5 burn. IF not stated it means I moved by myself by mistake and now I know it is a different thing.
Yeah that is always set to OPEN when you deactivate the LM and close the tunnel. So you missed a closeout step most likely.

However reading my own notes I am not sure if I had used the CSM O2 HOSES connected at all times before the DPS docked burn … (I discovered only later on that the hoses got “disconnected” upon reloading scenarios, so I may have forgot to reconnect them) … so I will try first from there, from the 1st IVT into the LM paying more attentions, if still I got the CRITICAL warning message I will post the scenario.
So the rule of thumb for the CSM hoses is they are used whenever the crew is in the LM and not connected to the ECS. So basically that hose should be connected while anyone is in the LM not connected to the LM ECS.

Looking back to all my saved scenarios when the LM was deactivated after the DPS Docked burn I do see that OVH DUMP valve always on AUTO, and the lever was on UNLOCK position, so it was on AUTO for long time (from LM closeout to new LM ingress) and the SUIT ISOL vlv where both on SUIT DISC … I guess they were put there once all crew members got back into the CSM (?)…. But not sure if it was written in the checklist to put back them to SUIT DISC or they somehow automatically move back to that position when everything was powered off losing pressure…or I somehow put by mistake (?)...surely they put to ON when people got in and the CO2 gauge sky rocket up.
The SUIT ISOL valve should be in disconnect after IVT to CSM. Sounds to me you left the crew in LM suits with the ECS not running or the valve in disconnect, that's the only way CO2 builds up in the suits that fast.
 

rcflyinghokie

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Hi, I just tried the 1st IVT at time 42h 10m and I got again the CRITICAL crew conditions status.

Here what I have done.

I started from the scenario named “T +41h 51m go into LM” and I proceed up to the scenario “T +42h 13m LMP to LM ECS” … the CMS O2 HOSES where connected once both tunnel hatches were opened (see photo 1) -> if you reload the scenario probably they will be "disconnected" but they were connected all time ... I just saved the scenarios at different times with scenario editor but i never stop running the simulations...

At 42:13:00 I went into the LM to do all activation steps mentioned in the LM checklist, I finished all of them by 42:20 and I got the crew in CRITICAL conditions (see photo 2, scenario “T +42h 20m back into CSM all hatches closed”).

At 42:28 I was in the AOT nav star visibility PAD attitude and at 42:36 I got the green OK crew status message (see photo 3), exactly as the first time I tried the procedure…and the LM HATCH DUMP vlv was set to AUTO by a checklist item.

As the crew is safe I can start again from here to do the rest of the journey, and I will use your suggestions/comments mentioned earlier, and see if I can save the crew this time; of course before to start I will wait for your comments about this earlier CRITICAL warning issue.

Thanks.
Running through this now to see if I can replicate the results, will report back!

UPDATE: Found your initial critical source, your cabin and suit temps are extremely low. I will investigate this further of course, but that's what's causing your initial critical on entry. Since your first IVT is suited, you don't need the CSM O2 hose since the crew is never in "cabin." But for some reason your LM temps dropped a lot.

What I would do here is turn off your primary evaporator, turn on the LCG pump, turn on the utility lights and put both cooling valves to hot with the crew in suits. The critical alarm should clear. When you get a GLYCOL light, go ahead and put everything back to the way it was.
 
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thermocalc

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Hi and thanks to be so fast, I was just going to sleep when I checked it again the forum..

you said:
" The SUIT ISOL valve should be in disconnect after IVT to CSM. Sounds to me you left the crew in LM suits with the ECS not running or the valve in disconnect, that's the only way CO2 builds up in the suits that fast. " - >

so if i let the crew "in suit" and I turn off the LM ECS or I put the SUIT ISOL to DISC and i just put CRW = 0 in the LM and CRW=3 in the CSM WITHOUT HAVING FIRST to set back the LMP and CDR "in cabin" they are always "in the suit"??? and of course, if everything is off they will starve for oxygen as you guessed....

as matter of fact I don't remember to have seen a message to say to put back the LMP or CDR "in cabin" before going out the LM (I mean before IVT to CSM) or i think i never put back them "in cabin" .... so the correct procedure to move them back to the CSM would be to set the LMP and CDR from "In suit" to "In cabin", than move them back to the CSM and deactivating the LM ECS with them already safely there?

about the very low temperature ... I saw it on the thermometer ... but as i follow the checklist items i thought it was normal not so critical...anyway thanks, looking forward to your final investigation on this issue....very very interesting ....
bye for now.
 

rcflyinghokie

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so if i let the crew "in suit" and I turn off the LM ECS or I put the SUIT ISOL to DISC and i just put CRW = 0 in the LM and CRW=3 in the CSM WITHOUT HAVING FIRST to set back the LMP and CDR "in cabin" they are always "in the suit"??? and of course, if everything is off they will starve for oxygen as you guessed....
Exactly, it wont let you set crew to 0 with them in the suits, so you have to switch to cabin first...just a little oddity with the way the PAMFD works right now. The IVT instruction says Open PAMFD - Press ECS - Remove LMP (LMP Cabin, Crew in Cabin = 0)

This just means you set the crew member to CABIN and then hit the crew button and type 0
as matter of fact I don't remember to have seen a message to say to put back the LMP or CDR "in cabin" before going out the LM (I mean before IVT to CSM) or i think i never put back them "in cabin" .... so the correct procedure to move them back to the CSM would be to set the LMP and CDR from "In suit" to "In cabin", than move them back to the CSM and deactivating the LM ECS with them already safely there?
See above, its there :)
 

thermocalc

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Hi, I think I finally find the root cause of my CO2 problems…

I looked back to my saved scenarios (now that I know thanks to you what to look for) starting from time 42:23:00 when I first tuned ON the SUIT ISOL vlv to SUIT FLOW, getting the yellow CRITICAL message … and I saw <2 mm Hg of CO2 pp (within the green band) and SUIT & CAB temp very low (bottom scale 40 °F) – photo 1
--> same as happened when I repeat all yesterday giving you the new sceneries.

At time 42:52:00 I got the “crew status: Ok” message, and still I had CO2 < 3 (it raises a bit compared with 30 min earlier), the SUIT ISOL vlv to SUIT FLOW (both) but the SUIT and CAB temp still very low, at bottom scale 40°F .. but crew was alive and healthy (photo 2)

Even at the next saved scenario at 43:00:00, when I did the “Regulator Check”, and crew was still alive with the SUIT ISOL vlv to SUIT FLOW (both).

AND WITH HORROR I saw that in the next saved scenario, at 43:11 when I did the “unstow RR ” checklist … I saw that the SUIT ISOL vlv were both on SUIT DISC -> putting both of them to SUIT FLOW I immediately got a CO2 high alarm, and yellow CRITICAL message --- CO2 were almost 14 mm Hg … by now the CAB temp was raised to around 56 °F but the SUIT temp was still at the bottom 40°F … after few minutes the CO2 level dropped and I got again the OK green crew status message (see photo 3).

Next saved scenario was at 43h 30m for the AOT nav star check … I jumped into the LM and I saw again that the SUIT ISOL vlv were both on SUIT DISC -> putting both to SUIT FLOW I immediately got a CO2 high alarm and the gauge meter went to top scale already 30 mm Hg … with critical yellow message, but still with SUIT temp at bottom scale and CAB temp decreased further to 46°F (from 56°F where it was 20 min earlier). Photo 4.

CONCLUSION

After performing the “Regulator check” I ended up with both SUIT ISOL vlv to SUIT DISC and they always stayed there from sometime after 43h up to when I re-opened them at about 70h … as during the Regulator check those valves were not supposed to be moved (correct? or maybe they "jump" to SUIT DISC by themselves? I will try tonight to repeat this procedure, together your one suggested for raising the temperatures) ... I guess I closed them by mistake while rushing in the ECS panels to keep the timeline … I don’t have any other possible explanation at this point.

But anyway the problem of the too low SUIT and CABIN temp was always there … to correct for this I will try the procedure you described earlier.

Question now:

As I would not like to repeat everything from 43h to 70h again (a lot of staff is there … will take long time to me) may I ask you if you can “clean up” one of my latest scenario just before IVT to LM the second time? Maybe around 70h? just before ECS LM activation so to speak, so that all CO2 accumulated in the SUIT Circuit get “software eliminated”???? and I can carry on from there?

if not possible, too many change to accomplish by you, it is ok, I may start again from the default A9 scenario at time of the SPS-5 burn …as I want to try to decompress both CSM and LM for making the EVA…don’t want to jump directly to LM undocking, which is the next default A9 scenario available, and for which my “shaky knowledge” of the AGS will come into play ehehehe….

Thanks anyway for your suggestions.

(Again I cannot stop being amazed by NASSP realism and saying to all of you “developer guys” how “genius” you are to implement such complications of real life situations rendering NASSP more and more awesome week by week … ).
 

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rcflyinghokie

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After performing the “Regulator check” I ended up with both SUIT ISOL vlv to SUIT DISC and they always stayed there from sometime after 43h up to when I re-opened them at about 70h … as during the Regulator check those valves were not supposed to be moved (correct? or maybe they "jump" to SUIT DISC by themselves? I will try tonight to repeat this procedure, together your one suggested for raising the temperatures) ... I guess I closed them by mistake while rushing in the ECS panels to keep the timeline … I don’t have any other possible explanation at this point.
The valves aren't supposed to be closed during the regulator check, no. However if your cabin pressure drops significantly for some reason, they will slam to disconnect in order to preserve suit pressure while the source of the depress is found. So if you aren't moving them, I am curious what you are doing to cause the pressure switches and actuator to engage.

As I would not like to repeat everything from 43h to 70h again (a lot of staff is there … will take long time to me) may I ask you if you can “clean up” one of my latest scenario just before IVT to LM the second time? Maybe around 70h? just before ECS LM activation so to speak, so that all CO2 accumulated in the SUIT Circuit get “software eliminated”???? and I can carry on from there?
Yep I can easily do that. Just send me a scn you wish me to edit.
 

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Hi thanks,

Well you gave me another very important clue … now I know/understand why the SUIT ISOL vlv got disconnected from 43h to 43h11m … they got disconnected when I did the REGULATOR CHECK …I just tried to replicate what I “might have unwittingly done” , screwing up my mission, and indeed they disconnect and I also got a SUIT FLOW red alarm (and CABIN alarm).

During the 1st REGULATOR CHECK basically I didn’t care too much to look at the pressure gauge meters…as instructed to do reading the yellow texts ….as I was losing time to find the knobs, the valves and the meters themselves … so, as I was in a hurry to keep the timeline, I may have let the pressure drop too low … indeed this is what I did now, I let the pressure go well below the 3.5 psi at which the checklist says to put back the dump valve to AUTO … and at some point I got a SUIT FLOW alarm and the vlv got disconnected (now I know, but before no); and if I carrying on with the sequence of operations to do in the checklist ... at the end both SUIT FLOW and CABIN alarms goes away and everything seems “normal” – but the two valves are now closed.

Instead when I tried yesterday to do the regulator check I was careful to read the meters and moving knobs/valves at the correct pressure readings and nothing happened, the vlv stayed open.

This may also explain your earlier remark about the fact that I used a lot of LM oxygen already … I guess if I dumped too much cabin atmosphere overboard when I had to repress the cabin I had to use a lot more of oxygen, and as this happens more than once during the check, the O2 consumption might also be higher…and I guess there was another regulator check along the timeline to do before 70:05:00, I may have let the pressure drop too low also there…wasting precious oxygen.

I guess this is indeed what happened, as I doubt to have closed them intentionally.

Really silly from my side and sorry for wasting your time a lot…

About the scenario to “clean up” … if you could modify the one at 67h (rest period end DAY 4 start) it would be great, so I can practice again full LM manned ops; please note that in that scenario the LM overhead hatch dump valve is in AUTO and not in OPEN position (as you told me to do before), so you may also “correct” any “environmental problems” caused by letting the valve in AUTO instead of OPEN (if any). If you think I need to “refill” a bit the O2 tanks to don’t have O2 problems later on during the rendezvous please do it.

I didn’t try your “cure” for bring up the SUIT and CABIN temperature yet (at 43h time), I will try surely tomorrow (just to confirm your thesis for the initial CRITICAL yellow message), and anyway I will keep open the eyes to the thermometers (and other gauges) during the next IVT, applying your “cure” there if still I see too low temperatures.

Thanks a lot.

Don’t know if it may help you to confirm my thesis, but I add also the old scenarios at time 43h (before the regulator check, with everything ok) and 43h11m (just before the RR stowing) when the valves are already closed; and also the one I just did to simulate a large drop of pressure to close the valves (but i didn't finish the checklist items...i just stop it when i saw the valve closing)
 

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rcflyinghokie

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Not a waste of time at all! Don't worry about it. I have fixed your scn.

A few notes: You left your LM O2 and pressure regulators on and (as you know) the hatch in AUTO, so this is another source of wasting oxygen. I have corrected the positions so you should be ok. Let me know if there are any other issues.
 

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thermocalc

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Hi, just completed day 4 and put the crew to sleep....just a small question.
I saw during the EVA checklist a lot of items related to the activities done during the EVA ... but if i press "EVA" on the PAMFD i didn't see "pop up" an astronaut outside ... is it normal for 9 don't have the astronaut?
even if I still never tried on the moon but I understood that once landed on the moon with the LM hatch open by pressing EVA the CDR is outside the LM...but noting happened with A9.
thanks.

my first rendezvous attempt is getting closer ... eheheh ... getting nervous and worried ...

NOTE -> along the way, so far I experienced some small issues (checklist related) I will collect what I found and i will post next time, before embarking into the RNDZ just to check if they were intended to work like that or not.
 

rcflyinghokie

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I saw during the EVA checklist a lot of items related to the activities done during the EVA ... but if i press "EVA" on the PAMFD i didn't see "pop up" an astronaut outside ... is it normal for 9 don't have the astronaut?
Yeah that's legacy code that only works for the moon, you wont see crew outside for any space EVA.

NOTE -> along the way, so far I experienced some small issues (checklist related) I will collect what I found and i will post next time, before embarking into the RNDZ just to check if they were intended to work like that or not.
Sounds good, I will cross reference what you find.
 

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Hi,

as promised here are some comments on A9 mission up to end of day 4, using NASSP v8 version 1771.


Q1) GET 006:30:00 CSM DAYLIGHT STAR CHECK

By putting the CSM at the R-P-Y angles of the PAD (photo 1), at the time mentioned (6h 49m) looking in to the SCT there is no sunrise, and looking at the Orbiter MAP display we are still in the dark night side (even at 6h 57m..from PAD observation time – photo 2).
However at about 7h 4m (about 14 min after the TIME mentioned in the PAD) there is indeed the sunrise (looking from external view) but it cannot be seen through the SCT … is the PAD attitude wrong? (see photo 3 and 4).

Reading the FP at page 4-20 (photo 5) I understood that sunrise should happen 15min AFTER being in the PAD observation attitude (so as it happened at 7:04 and the pad says 6:49 I guess timing is more or less correct) and the SHT and TRN angles must be set to 180 and 12 degrees respectively (in the photo 4 they were 0-0); so next I set the angles via V41 N91E but still at 7:05 (when the sunrise is happening) through the SCT I didn’t see anything (photo 6 and 7).

I also tried to roll +/- 40 degrees from the head down attitude (180 degree right?) to be in 140 and 220 degree roll, but again at 7:05 no sunrise in the SCT.

I tried to roll +/- 40 degrees from the roll pad attitude, 28 and 108 roll, but still no sunrise in the SCT.

Unrelated question: comparing photo 4 vs 7, I don’t get the difference between 0-0 and 180-12 degrees of SFT/TRN angles … a part the crosshair to be rotated upside down (so why they were suppose to move to 180-12 in the first place ?), and for the 12 degrees I cannot make out any observable difference…

So not sure if something is wrong in the CSM PAD attitude to see the sunrise in the SCT at the PAD time or about 15min later… or I do something wring in interpreting the instructions as given in the checklist or in 4-10 page of the FP…

in case, I put the scenario just 4 min before the PAD time with the CSM already in inertial pad attitude and optics at 0-0.



Q2) in 4 cases there was a yellow text showing a PAD that didn’t got uplinked when the checklist time came; as it was always a yellow text it was a normal behavior? (I guess so, as I managed to arrive so far to end of day 4…just ask for confirmation)

GET 008:53:05 there is a “Copy 6-4 Deorbit TIG” PAD

GET 22:25:00, with “Copy SPS-3 Gimbal Angles”

GET 25:30:00 with “Copy SPS-4 Gimbal Angles”

GET 41:10:00 with “LM S-BD steerable PAD”



Q3) general question about SPS ULLAGE.

When we need to use ULLAGE for making SPS Burns which is the correct way to do it?

Suppose we need to do a “2 jet ullage for 12s” according the FP … after having set 2 or 4 jests in the DAP via V48, when should I timing the start of the X-trusting via THC (Numpad 6)?

At TIG -12sec ? (DET = 59:48 in this example) - so to hit PRO when V99 flashes while still X-thrusting with numpad 6)

OR at TIG -17 ? (DET=59:43 in the example) (=12 sec ullage time + 5 sec) and stopping after 12 s and press PRO within the next 5 sec when V99 flashes (without keep thrusting)?

OR it doesn’t matter the precise time when ullage is done, as far as within 30 sec from the planned TIG burn time?

And, if the ullage is with 4 jets can I push the DIRECT ULLAGE pb instead of using the THC (numpad 6 -> +X translation)?



Q4) “CB ACTIVATION PWR UP CHART”

The CB in yellow “ RNG/RNG RT ALT/ALT RT” is appearing at time CBs in row 1 are mentioned, should not be eliminated at this step? as i saw it is already there when CBs in row 2 are shown ... (photo 8)

CDR AUDIO cb – it is written to CLOSE, but the automatic checklist proceed only if it is OPEN , so I put it open to let the automatic checklist to go on and than put back to CLOSED (photo 9).


Q5) During the “RNDZ RDR Self Test” … while doing V41 N72E the DSKY shows V04 N06 with 00002 in R2, but the checklist says “N12 R2 00002” … (photo 10)


Q6) During “LDG RDR Self Test” checklist, when you are asked to enter V61E the yellow box wants you to enter V62…(in the photo I just override checklist orders) (photo 11)


Q7) during the “S-BD & VHF Activation” checklist at about 96h 30m … there are a lot of yellow items asking for setting CSM communication switches / knobs in different positions, which would required keeping going in/out from LM/CSM .. I suppose they are not required at this stage as not simulated, right? (just confirmation).

Moreover, at some point is requested to move the RECORDER sw to ON, but the bp indicator stays bp, didn’t become gray to indicate motion has stared … is normal? (photo 12)


Q8) during the EVA checklist, when time come to do “Cabin Depress” at some point I get the tasks indicated in photo … when it is written “suit press – 3.5-4.0 psia and so on ..) but there is a yellow box circling the RUN/EVA sw and the automatic checklist stop there, doesn’t proceed, I had to hit PRO manually to make it advance … up to CAB PRESS RELF vlv - DUMP on 325 panel (photo 13)


Q9) what about the LOCK vs UNLOCK lever on the LM OVH hatch? It is never mentioned in the checklist, if UNLOCK I can open the hatch, so I guess it is always UNLOCK until when crew are inside which can LOCK it (maybe to undocking? Not arrived to that point yet…)

FINALLY ---- how can you "cut and past" part of my text to make them appear as "quoted" in your reply?? --- silly i know, but don't know how to do :cry:

thanks.
 

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rcflyinghokie

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However at about 7h 4m (about 14 min after the TIME mentioned in the PAD) there is indeed the sunrise (looking from external view) but it cannot be seen through the SCT … is the PAD attitude wrong? (see photo 3 and 4).
The pad is supposed to be given approximately 15 minutes before sunrise, you aren't supposed to see the sun through the SCT. The daylight star check is to see how well stars are observable through the SCT during sunrise and in sunlight.

Reading the FP at page 4-20 (photo 5) I understood that sunrise should happen 15min AFTER being in the PAD observation attitude (so as it happened at 7:04 and the pad says 6:49 I guess timing is more or less correct) and the SHT and TRN angles must be set to 180 and 12 degrees respectively (in the photo 4 they were 0-0); so next I set the angles via V41 N91E but still at 7:05 (when the sunrise is happening) through the SCT I didn’t see anything (photo 6 and 7).
See above, you aren't supposed to see the sun through the SCT, rather see how well stars are observed.

Unrelated question: comparing photo 4 vs 7, I don’t get the difference between 0-0 and 180-12 degrees of SFT/TRN angles … a part the crosshair to be rotated upside down (so why they were suppose to move to 180-12 in the first place ?), and for the 12 degrees I cannot make out any observable difference…
The positions look quite different to me, look at where your stars are. The 180 and 12 is so that the SCT is not facing the LM. Our optics dont 100% model where the LM or reflections off of it would be in the SCT but that is the purpose.

So not sure if something is wrong in the CSM PAD attitude to see the sunrise in the SCT at the PAD time or about 15min later… or I do something wring in interpreting the instructions as given in the checklist or in 4-10 page of the FP…
Again you aren't supposed to see the sunrise, but rather test star observability. And of course orbiter is unable to make stars brighter or dimmer in optics based on that.

Q2) in 4 cases there was a yellow text showing a PAD that didn’t got uplinked when the checklist time came; as it was always a yellow text it was a normal behavior? (I guess so, as I managed to arrive so far to end of day 4…just ask for confirmation)

GET 008:53:05 there is a “Copy 6-4 Deorbit TIG” PAD

GET 22:25:00, with “Copy SPS-3 Gimbal Angles”

GET 25:30:00 with “Copy SPS-4 Gimbal Angles”

GET 41:10:00 with “LM S-BD steerable PAD”
Yeah those are placeholders, those items were read up to the crew but our MCC doesn't yet support them. They are to be added.

Q3) general question about SPS ULLAGE.

When we need to use ULLAGE for making SPS Burns which is the correct way to do it?

Suppose we need to do a “2 jet ullage for 12s” according the FP … after having set 2 or 4 jests in the DAP via V48, when should I timing the start of the X-trusting via THC (Numpad 6)?

At TIG -12sec ? (DET = 59:48 in this example) - so to hit PRO when V99 flashes while still X-thrusting with numpad 6)

OR at TIG -17 ? (DET=59:43 in the example) (=12 sec ullage time + 5 sec) and stopping after 12 s and press PRO within the next 5 sec when V99 flashes (without keep thrusting)?

OR it doesn’t matter the precise time when ullage is done, as far as within 30 sec from the planned TIG burn time?

And, if the ullage is with 4 jets can I push the DIRECT ULLAGE pb instead of using the THC (numpad 6 -> +X translation)?
Ullage if using PGNS is set up in the DAP and applied using the THC. Lets use your 2 jet 12s example:

First, set up the DAP for 2 jet +X translation by setting V48 R1 (ABCDE) B and C. You would place a zero in B or C to "fail" those when using the THC. B controls the A/C quads and C controls the B/D quads. So you would use either X01XX or X10XX.

The timing is based on TIG, so you would wait until 12 seconds before ignition and hold THC +X. PRO is pressed while holding this and when the SPS lights the X translation will stop automatically even if you are still holding the THC +X.

You can use the DIRECT ULLAGE button, but that is normally used during an SCS burn, if there is an issue with the THC, and (as you pointed out) if you are doing a 4 jet ullage. I would do it the proper way and use THC and let the PGNS turn it off for you at TIG.

Q4) “CB ACTIVATION PWR UP CHART”

The CB in yellow “ RNG/RNG RT ALT/ALT RT” is appearing at time CBs in row 1 are mentioned, should not be eliminated at this step? as i saw it is already there when CBs in row 2 are shown ... (photo 8)
Hmm good catch, the reason I think I put this here is AC breakers are always supposed to be powered before their DC counterparts, so this was to ensure it was enabled first and still maintain the cb check order following it instead of jumping out of order. I can clean these up.

CDR AUDIO cb – it is written to CLOSE, but the automatic checklist proceed only if it is OPEN , so I put it open to let the automatic checklist to go on and than put back to CLOSED (photo 9).
Simple 0 vs 1 issue in the file, this will be fixed.

Q5) During the “RNDZ RDR Self Test” … while doing V41 N72E the DSKY shows V04 N06 with 00002 in R2, but the checklist says “N12 R2 00002” … (photo 10)
Ah also a good catch, when I wrote this checklist, we didn't have the proper LGC in Spider. So now the verbs and nouns should reflect the correct procedures. So N12 on later iterations was the same as N06 in this software. I will see if I can spot more of these.

Q6) During “LDG RDR Self Test” checklist, when you are asked to enter V61E the yellow box wants you to enter V62…(in the photo I just override checklist orders) (photo 11)
Checklist command typo, fixed!

Q7) during the “S-BD & VHF Activation” checklist at about 96h 30m … there are a lot of yellow items asking for setting CSM communication switches / knobs in different positions, which would required keeping going in/out from LM/CSM .. I suppose they are not required at this stage as not simulated, right? (just confirmation).
Yeah all placeholders right now, since they appear as that text in the actual procedures, I decided to keep them in the event we are able to model them in the future somehow.

Moreover, at some point is requested to move the RECORDER sw to ON, but the bp indicator stays bp, didn’t become gray to indicate motion has stared … is normal? (photo 12)
I don't think that tb is simulated yet, it will be when we have the DSE and such implemented. We might be able to make it just turn on for show for now haha.

Q8) during the EVA checklist, when time come to do “Cabin Depress” at some point I get the tasks indicated in photo … when it is written “suit press – 3.5-4.0 psia and so on ..) but there is a yellow box circling the RUN/EVA sw and the automatic checklist stop there, doesn’t proceed, I had to hit PRO manually to make it advance … up to CAB PRESS RELF vlv - DUMP on 325 panel (photo 13)
Looks like an old copy paste error. Fixed!

Q9) what about the LOCK vs UNLOCK lever on the LM OVH hatch? It is never mentioned in the checklist, if UNLOCK I can open the hatch, so I guess it is always UNLOCK until when crew are inside which can LOCK it (maybe to undocking? Not arrived to that point yet…)
Whenever the hatch is closed it's locked, the lock handle is actually what holds it closed. But of course you have to unlock it to open it.

FINALLY ---- how can you "cut and past" part of my text to make them appear as "quoted" in your reply?? --- silly i know, but don't know how to do :cry:
So in OF, you just highlight a section of text you want to quote, hover over the highlighted text, and then a little box pops up letting you reply directly to that message or add the line to a multi quote. Then in your reply, you will see a new box next to attach files called insert quotes, you can select which to paste into your reply. The multiquote is useful as I can highlight and add all of your questions and then insert them all at once in the reply.


UPDATE: Regarding the RECORDER tb, I did some more research and it seems it only went gray if voice was being recorded, and this was voice activated. Since we don't have comms and true PTT functions, the tb always is bp since we aren't recording voice if that makes sense.
 
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Hi there, thank you for your previous relies and sorry to not notify it before ... real life problems as usual got my attention :mad:

In these days I carried on a bit of Apollo 9 mission tasks and I would like to ask for some advices/issues I am “regularly” having.

I started from the default scenarios “Apollo 9 - 23 - LM Active Docking” … so to bypass the rendezvous for the time being, practicing the rest of the mission … and I am now at day 7.

Q1) P51 IMU ALIGN – upon CMC power up

Each time I need to perform P51 after the “rest period end” and CMC + GNC power up, as I try to mark manually 2 stars I get huge delta angles errors of the order +0xxxx or +00xxx …; even if I reject them, and I keep recycling via V32E and re-do all over again the error doesn’t go down … I tried with different stars … if I try to “exit” and “reload” the same scenario 2 or 3 or 4 times, doing the same actions (sometime with same stars as before, sometime with different ones) I manage to get 00000 or 00001 error, and if I tried to do after that a P52 REFSMMAT the CMC find all stars without issues.
Note, I also tried to make a SV update via RTCC or PAMFD before doing P51 but sometime the same issue happen again… if it may serve as further clue, I notice that if I go LVLH heads down when manually selecting stars (using SRF HUD or SRF MFD as guidance) after 1-2 attempts I managed to get good results, if I am in any arbitrary attitude (as I am supposed to be as during the rest period everything was free of drift …) it is almost impossible to get low errors.
Note that I use time acceleration x15 during the rest periods and the FPS are about 30-40 on the performance meter…
So how such huge errors might be generated? is not the purpose of P51 to let the CMC knows where are the stars once the alignment is lost ?
(I learned to use P51 after accidentally going into gimbal lock sometimes and no issue there to get back a proper IMU aligned)

Q2) DAP ORBITAL RATE (RETROGRADE)”

During Day 6 – S065 exercises - I got (?) an issues with the ORDEAL … basically, upon entering into ORB PITCH RTE at the proper GET PAD time, after 5 or 10 min while I see that on the SRF MFD and SRF HUD I am still LVLH heads down the FDAI – ORDEAL driven doesn’t keep the 0-0-0 attitude … I initialized the ORDEAL via V82 and V83 earlier … I tried to set the ALT SET to the average orbit altitude I am in (about 116-117 NM) or even set the ALT SET to the “current” ALTITUDE read out from PAMFD, which could be as low as 98-96NM at time S065 is done … but still the ORDEAL driven FDAI doesn’t keep the attitude … but I am in orbital rate …. What could be the reason? Is there some “hidden” CBs which maybe I pull-off by mistake?
(NOTE in A8, A11 during moon P22 exercises I had no issues to keep the ORDEAL on LVLH once the proper orbital rate was achieved….)
Is maybe the high orbit eccentricity (>130 NM HA, <96 NM HP) the reason ?
moreover, why in the PAD is written 0-0-0 for R-P-Y --- as we are LVLH heads DW should not be 180-0-0 ?

Q3) related to the setting of the DAP ORB RTE values for VVVVV, WWWWW, XXXXX, YYYYY, ZZZZZ which appears in the checklist … is there a G&N Dictionary somewhere available for the A9 CMC computer software to see them? I found the one for the Sundance in the LGC but I didn’t see the same doc for the CMC … (just curiosity)

Q4) I notice many times that once I “nulled” the S/C rates (KILL ROT PAMFD push botton – (cheating I know) after few minutes they start to build up again and after maybe 20-30 min of time accelerations they growth even above 0.1 °/sec …. So I already wasted a lot of RCS fuel to keep the attitude more or less stable (=low drift angles in R-P-Y) … is it normal like that? As we are in low Earth orbit with a larger gravitational field (+perturbation) compared to my previous A8 and A11 moon orbit operations were the S/C was not drifting so much in such sort time span (1-2 h about).

Q5) in preparation to go back to attempt my first rendezvous at day 5 … in case I am “behind the timeline” and “I am struggling” to generate proper burn parameters for CSI, CDH, TPI by running the proper LM programs and/or doing the proper procedures correctly … can I “generate burn parameters – TIG and DV – for such maneuvers like CSI, CDH and TPI somehow using “external tools”? such as RTCCC ?
or more easily, by UPLOADING via RTCCC at some point after having took RR marks (which might not have been taken correctly resulting in a wrong LM SV knowledge…) new/fresh LM and CSM SV which are surely correct? if so, when should I "upload" to the LGC these "new SVs"? So to allow the running program to generate burn calculations based on these new (manually) uploaded SVs? :unsure:

Thanks as usual for your kind answers.
 

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Q1) P51 IMU ALIGN – upon CMC power up

Each time I need to perform P51 after the “rest period end” and CMC + GNC power up, as I try to mark manually 2 stars I get huge delta angles errors of the order +0xxxx or +00xxx …; even if I reject them, and I keep recycling via V32E and re-do all over again the error doesn’t go down … I tried with different stars … if I try to “exit” and “reload” the same scenario 2 or 3 or 4 times, doing the same actions (sometime with same stars as before, sometime with different ones) I manage to get 00000 or 00001 error, and if I tried to do after that a P52 REFSMMAT the CMC find all stars without issues.
Note, I also tried to make a SV update via RTCC or PAMFD before doing P51 but sometime the same issue happen again… if it may serve as further clue, I notice that if I go LVLH heads down when manually selecting stars (using SRF HUD or SRF MFD as guidance) after 1-2 attempts I managed to get good results, if I am in any arbitrary attitude (as I am supposed to be as during the rest period everything was free of drift …) it is almost impossible to get low errors.
Note that I use time acceleration x15 during the rest periods and the FPS are about 30-40 on the performance meter…
So how such huge errors might be generated? is not the purpose of P51 to let the CMC knows where are the stars once the alignment is lost ?
(I learned to use P51 after accidentally going into gimbal lock sometimes and no issue there to get back a proper IMU aligned)
Hmm this one I would need to test for myself. Can you post a scn? Also can you explain the procedure you are using to power down/power up? I want to see if anything is missing.

Q2) DAP ORBITAL RATE (RETROGRADE)”

During Day 6 – S065 exercises - I got (?) an issues with the ORDEAL … basically, upon entering into ORB PITCH RTE at the proper GET PAD time, after 5 or 10 min while I see that on the SRF MFD and SRF HUD I am still LVLH heads down the FDAI – ORDEAL driven doesn’t keep the 0-0-0 attitude … I initialized the ORDEAL via V82 and V83 earlier … I tried to set the ALT SET to the average orbit altitude I am in (about 116-117 NM) or even set the ALT SET to the “current” ALTITUDE read out from PAMFD, which could be as low as 98-96NM at time S065 is done … but still the ORDEAL driven FDAI doesn’t keep the attitude … but I am in orbital rate …. What could be the reason? Is there some “hidden” CBs which maybe I pull-off by mistake?
(NOTE in A8, A11 during moon P22 exercises I had no issues to keep the ORDEAL on LVLH once the proper orbital rate was achieved….)
Is maybe the high orbit eccentricity (>130 NM HA, <96 NM HP) the reason ?
moreover, why in the PAD is written 0-0-0 for R-P-Y --- as we are LVLH heads DW should not be 180-0-0 ?
When you say it doesn't keep the attitude, is it way off or does it drift and come back? As you stated the eccentricity is larger and the ordeal is based on a circular orbit so when you compute the average it will drift off of 0 0 0 and come back and drift again etc.

The REFSMMAT you have here was established by SPS-6, which was 0 0 0 retrograde, heads down. So 0 0 0 on the FDAI soon after this burn should be retrograde heads down, 180 would be heads up.

Again, this might be a case of a scn file helping further diagnose if there are any issues.

Q3) related to the setting of the DAP ORB RTE values for VVVVV, WWWWW, XXXXX, YYYYY, ZZZZZ which appears in the checklist … is there a G&N Dictionary somewhere available for the A9 CMC computer software to see them? I found the one for the Sundance in the LGC but I didn’t see the same doc for the CMC … (just curiosity)
We don't have a G&C for 9, however these values can be found in the AOH Vol 2.

Q4) I notice many times that once I “nulled” the S/C rates (KILL ROT PAMFD push botton – (cheating I know) after few minutes they start to build up again and after maybe 20-30 min of time accelerations they growth even above 0.1 °/sec …. So I already wasted a lot of RCS fuel to keep the attitude more or less stable (=low drift angles in R-P-Y) … is it normal like that? As we are in low Earth orbit with a larger gravitational field (+perturbation) compared to my previous A8 and A11 moon orbit operations were the S/C was not drifting so much in such sort time span (1-2 h about).
You are experiencing atmospheric drag. This is a new feature and is normal :)

Q5) in preparation to go back to attempt my first rendezvous at day 5 … in case I am “behind the timeline” and “I am struggling” to generate proper burn parameters for CSI, CDH, TPI by running the proper LM programs and/or doing the proper procedures correctly … can I “generate burn parameters – TIG and DV – for such maneuvers like CSI, CDH and TPI somehow using “external tools”? such as RTCCC ?
or more easily, by UPLOADING via RTCCC at some point after having took RR marks (which might not have been taken correctly resulting in a wrong LM SV knowledge…) new/fresh LM and CSM SV which are surely correct? if so, when should I "upload" to the LGC these "new SVs"? So to allow the running program to generate burn calculations based on these new (manually) uploaded SVs? :unsure:
All of those burns were computed onboard. Any particular struggles that you are running into as they all should be able to work in the LM.

Wrt RTCC, computing those maneuvers is complicated and frankly would take you more time having to fly the LM and use RTCC, this would put you even further behind. You can upload a new SV if you like, just make sure your RR isn't marking and updating the SV. You shouldn't need to, however.
 

thermocalc

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thanks for the quick reply...in few days I will send the sceneries you asked for, now too late for me (almost midnight) and tomorrow is my son birthday so i will be busy with him until Monday. Bye
 

thermocalc

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Hi,

Sorry for my late reply but I was occupied in other things … I did again some testing, about my previous Q1 and Q2, and I tried to point out what I am doing and observing; inside the 2 zip files some sceneries and some pdf in which I described in details the problems I faced for your further analysis.

Thanks as usual.
Kind regards.

FYI: during P22 on day 7 I noticed that I can maintain LVLH heads up attitude (by SRF MFD) with a -ve 0.075 deg/s pitch rate (manually created by IMPULSE mode) and the FDAI ORDEAL at 0-0-0 ... but this time there was a P52 "nominal" before, indeed also FDAI 1 (inertial) was showing 0-0-0 at time of start of the orb rate ... does this observation may help to shed light on my issues on day 6, when the REFSMMAT was different? (and the FDAI 2 GDC driven was aligned to the FDAI 1 INERTIAL driven with a different REFSMMAT) ... just guessing....maybe uncorrelated facts...anyway for P22 it works, no issues there :)
 

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