Apollo 10 with NASSP 8 beta rev 1822_issues

thermocalc

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Hi,

I started from the “Apollo 10 - 14 - Before CSI TIG-6min” scenario to practice again the rendezvous…I managed the CSI, CDH, TPI and I am on my way to the 1st MCC with P35, but I always get the 1706 alarm … as apparently I am always too late to call up P41.

But something is not clear:

the TIP TIG was at 105:17:37, so the MCC-1 should be 15 min later, at 105:32:37.

At 105:22:14 I started P35…and when the V16 45 display appeared, at 105:22:51 R2 was showing +05:14 … so I guess I was +5:14 from TIP TIG (105:17:37 + 05:14 = 105:22:51) and I got only 1 marks (photo 1).

The checklist asked to “Load LM and CSM weights” … but how am I suppose to know/get them? So I just hit PRO and carried on…

At 105:24:36 in R2 I got +06:59 -> still confirming the TPI TIG was at 105:17:37 (+ 06:59 = 105:24:36)

I waited up to TPI+8m with 5 marks at that time, and than I proceed without waiting for TPI+12min to get the F 06 81, and F 06 59, and F 16 45 … and here I now saw that in R2 there were a countdown at -00:38, and I was at GET = 105:29:03 (see photo 3) or TPI + 11:37 .. almost 3 min before the TPI+15min … but instead it seems I was too late, as once entered P41 I got the 01703 alarm “TIG Slipped”….

So the MCC 1 is not always at +15min ??? can happens earlier?

Did I make wrong to don’t wait up to TPI+12min to move on?

Can I skip MCC-1 if not on time, like here, and just do MCC-2 later on (with more DV)? Or doing so I will have no chance to dock during the TPF ?

Thanks for any help/suggestions.
 

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rcflyinghokie

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the TIP TIG was at 105:17:37, so the MCC-1 should be 15 min later, at 105:32:37.

At 105:22:14 I started P35…and when the V16 45 display appeared, at 105:22:51 R2 was showing +05:14 … so I guess I was +5:14 from TIP TIG (105:17:37 + 05:14 = 105:22:51) and I got only 1 marks (photo 1).
So you don't worry about that time in P35. The computation for P41 TIG is created on your final passthrough. So you wait until TPI+12m (MCC1 -3m) to do the final passthrough and that sets up your TIG for MCC1 via P41.

The checklist asked to “Load LM and CSM weights” … but how am I suppose to know/get them? So I just hit PRO and carried on…
They should already be fine based on an earlier pad. Since you loaded a pre-saved mission you don't have the pad but they should be good to leave as is.
 

thermocalc

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Hi sorry to be back again.

I tried all over again from CSI, CDH, TPI and TPM.

Q1) For MCC1 I waited until the TPI+12m mark before to hit PRO …but it took more than 2 mins to give out the answers so by the time I got to P41 I got the same “TIG skipped alarm”. As I was following the progresses with Rendezvoud MFD, having set the same intercept time after TPI of 45 min, I was able to “manually” fires a little bit with N85 display on …. Could not null all DVs of course but I put the “green intercepting MFD curve” closer to the “gray one”. I moved on, and the 2nd MCC went well, I managed to do P41 nulling a little but the DVs below 0.4 fps ("After MCC-2 photo"). -> So still don’t understand why I always skip the TIG time….can be an issues with my own computer, which somehow “retard” the LGC outputs ?

Q2) during the braking phase I was always in GUID CONT – PGNC and MODE CONT – ATT HOLD, with P47 running trying to reduce speeds as scheduled in the yellow text …. But while before (during MCC-1 and MCC-2) the CSM was well centered into the cross-hair (I didn’t touch any ACA so to speak, just let the LGC control the attitude) as soon as I started to fire –X it was moving out of the COAS … so am (was) I supposed to keep also maneuvering the LM in R/P/Y while –X thrusting to keep the CSM into the crosshair at all time (while thrusting)? Should I P/R/Y the LM to have always the visual situation as shown in the last photo in attached?

Q3) not remember exactly when, but while I was still in RR lock on, with the CSM centered into the crosshair, I was supposed to enter V63E but I got an OPR ERR lt on; even later, during P47 , when asked to enter V63E (to can read out the R – Rrate from the DSKY) I got OPR ERR as soon as I hit the “E” of enter…(see V63E giving OPR ERR" photo") ....so I completed the station keeping visually by using Orbiter Docking HUD , Docking MFD, and reading the R and Rrate from the tape meters.

Q4) while I am still in “station keeping” at about 20m I see that I have difficulties to maintain the relative speed to 0, so I am still not docked, as soon as it becomes –ve and I close the distance after a while it becomes +ve again and I am drifting away again….so I guess I need to re-do all over again from TPI at least but any suggestions?

Thanks
 

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rcflyinghokie

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Q1) For MCC1 I waited until the TPI+12m mark before to hit PRO …but it took more than 2 mins to give out the answers so by the time I got to P41 I got the same “TIG skipped alarm”. As I was following the progresses with Rendezvoud MFD, having set the same intercept time after TPI of 45 min, I was able to “manually” fires a little bit with N85 display on …. Could not null all DVs of course but I put the “green intercepting MFD curve” closer to the “gray one”. I moved on, and the 2nd MCC went well, I managed to do P41 nulling a little but the DVs below 0.4 fps ("After MCC-2 photo"). -> So still don’t understand why I always skip the TIG time….can be an issues with my own computer, which somehow “retard” the LGC outputs ?
That seems odd, do you have a scenario file I can see if I can duplicate it? I have attached an image from the rendezvous procedures that show those steps and timing.

Q2) during the braking phase I was always in GUID CONT – PGNC and MODE CONT – ATT HOLD, with P47 running trying to reduce speeds as scheduled in the yellow text …. But while before (during MCC-1 and MCC-2) the CSM was well centered into the cross-hair (I didn’t touch any ACA so to speak, just let the LGC control the attitude) as soon as I started to fire –X it was moving out of the COAS … so am (was) I supposed to keep also maneuvering the LM in R/P/Y while –X thrusting to keep the CSM into the crosshair at all time (while thrusting)? Should I P/R/Y the LM to have always the visual situation as shown in the last photo in attached?
I hope you were firing +/- Z during braking phase, not +/- X :p

But it moving in attitude is normal when you fire translational thrust as the CG isn't dead center between the RCS quads. If you are in DAP ATT HOLD (V77) it should correct for this. But even with that it will show slightly off center from your original attitude while you are firing the +/-Z

Q3) not remember exactly when, but while I was still in RR lock on, with the CSM centered into the crosshair, I was supposed to enter V63E but I got an OPR ERR lt on; even later, during P47 , when asked to enter V63E (to can read out the R – Rrate from the DSKY) I got OPR ERR as soon as I hit the “E” of enter…(see V63E giving OPR ERR" photo") ....so I completed the station keeping visually by using Orbiter Docking HUD , Docking MFD, and reading the R and Rrate from the tape meters.
What program were you running when you called V63? If you still had P20 running in the background I can see V63 causing an OPR ERR. You need to exit P20 via V56E before using it.

Q4) while I am still in “station keeping” at about 20m I see that I have difficulties to maintain the relative speed to 0, so I am still not docked, as soon as it becomes –ve and I close the distance after a while it becomes +ve again and I am drifting away again….so I guess I need to re-do all over again from TPI at least but any suggestions?
This part was all visual and training, so you just have to practice and while you have enough distance for a RR lock, practice getting the range rate as close to zero as possible as well as using the xpointer in LO MULTI to null all translation rates and observe visually.
 

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thermocalc

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Hi thanks for the fast reply.
In the scenarios:
  1. situation at about TPI +8m waiting to see +12:00 on the DSKY to hit PRO ... note: once i got the next mark at about +11:33 and so I hit PRO (when the COMP ACTY lt was off or blinking) ... and I got the 1703 alarm later on; next i tried to wait for really 12:00 and hit PRO, but at that time the COMP ACTY lt was solid, meaning another mark was been processed, and again i got the 1703 .... I arrive to F 16 45 with -01:00 more or less and by the time I got the F 50 18 and hit ENTER I got the prog alarm....
  2. situation when I need to start V63 the 1st time, I am in P00 (at least it seems to me...I did V37E 00E once more time before doing V63E), V63E give me OPR ERR
  3. same while running P47 and N83 displayed, doing V63E still I got the alarm.
about the docking....I will try to be more careful next time...thanks for the hints.....surely need to be faster....

can I skip all the AGS items to gain time the first few times??? as I have seen than the GUID sw is always in PGNCS ... so the AGS was never let in control ....

Bye

PS: unrelated question: the default scenarios under the folder "Apollo - Mission Scenarios" can they be used without issues even if I am using still the version 1822?
what if I upgrade to the latest version? will they be flyable?
I am always a bit afraid to upgrade NASSP each time a new version come out while still in the middle of a mission...but as it takes "months" for me to finish a mission I lost many updates, so I would like to keep my sim always updated but than I am not sure if I can still keep move on from my previous saved scenarios ....
 

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indy91

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What kind of DV did you get for MCC-1? I think the calculation can taken longer if it is a larger DV.
 

rcflyinghokie

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  1. situation when I need to start V63 the 1st time, I am in P00 (at least it seems to me...I did V37E 00E once more time before doing V63E), V63E give me OPR ERR
  2. same while running P47 and N83 displayed, doing V63E still I got the alarm.
You need to use V56E to exit P20, not going to P00. So I bet it's still running.

EDIT: Strike that, I too am getting the OPR ERR. I am looking into this now...

can I skip all the AGS items to gain time the first few times??? as I have seen than the GUID sw is always in PGNCS ... so the AGS was never let in control ....
Yeah you can if you wish. I would still keep it aligned with the PGNS but you can skip the computations if you wish.

I am always a bit afraid to upgrade NASSP each time a new version come out while still in the middle of a mission...but as it takes "months" for me to finish a mission I lost many updates, so I would like to keep my sim always updated but than I am not sure if I can still keep move on from my previous saved scenarios ....
9 times out of 10 it is safe. We will make announcements in the release work thread if something save breaking is pushed. But typically the only downside is your checklist MFD might be a little out of sync. I am currently flying Apollo 10 and making checklist updates but nothing I have pushed should mess with your checklist yet.


I will also test your scn and report back and see what things look like shortly.
 
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thermocalc

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Hi, Indy and RCS...

about the DVs I got in MCC-1:

1st time I got:

V06 81 +00002, -00010, -00023

V06 59 +00017, -00010, -00015

N85 don’t remember, didn’t wrote down.



2nd time I got:

V06 81 +00002, -00010, -00023

V06 59 +00017, -00010, -00015

I got the F 50 18, upon ENTER I got V16 85 and PROG alarm, the DVs were (on N85): +00020, -00002, +00018

(I also got a F 06 49 with +00005, +00021, -00001, after exiting P41 while still in P35)…about 3 min later….



3rd time I got:

V06 N81 +00002, -00010, -00023

V06 N59 +00017, -00010, -00015

I got the F 50 18, upon ENTER I got V16 85 and PROG alarm, the DVs were (on N85): +00020, -00002, +00018

(I also got a F 06 49 with +00005, +00021, -00001, after exiting P41 while still in P35)…about 3 min later….

105:29:41 hit PRO when R2 shown +12:00

105:31:38 got V06 81 -00001, -00009, -00027

105:31:41 got V06 59 +00019, -00009, -00019

105:31:46 got V16 45 +00008, -01:04, +34107



105:32:00 got F 50 18 in P41

105:32:03 got V16 85 +00020, -00001, +00020 and PROG lt on 1703



If too large…does it means I did something wrong at TPI?

Maybe need to be more carefull to null the DVs over there?

Here are my P34 TPI solutions and my burn status after trimming....

P34 TPI

V06 37 +00105 +00017 +03685

V06 58 +00455 +00224 +00293

V06 81 +00202 -00007 -00098

V06 90 -00010 +00002 +00020

V06 59 +00224 +00001 +00003

At time of TPI with P41 I got:

V16 85 +00224 +00002 -00002

After trimming, I got:

V16 85 +00008 +00001 -00007

Than I resumed RR lock on – P20 and P35 … for MCC-1.


@RCS
I did V56E, V63E still OPR ERR, so I did V37E 20E I enter into P20, I did V56E I saw that I got a F 37 so I entered 00 and I was in P00, than I did V63E and still OPR ERR...

anyway thanks, I am curious to see if again it is only me making some mistake .... about checklists if you are going through now I think this V56E before V63E was not there or if there it means I missed it.

tomorrow & sunday I will try all over again from the CSI -> CDH -> TPI -> TPM -> docking ...

actually A10 was really a nice mission and indeed relatively easier than A9 ....... (that's why i skip the rendezvous over there ....)
 

thermocalc

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Sorry "rcfly..." to call you "RCS" ---- ahhhhhhh NASSP is really in my head ........ :p ------- wife getting angry......
 

rcflyinghokie

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Sorry "rcfly..." to call you "RCS" ---- ahhhhhhh NASSP is really in my head ........ :p ------- wife getting angry......
No worries :p So looks like the V63 problem is because you have the LR Spurious Test still running. You were supposed to V79 a while back to stop it. That should solve the V63 OPR ERR.

Regarding the slipped TIG, we are getting the same results, I am going to fly a 10 rendezvous from the beginning and see if I can replicate this.

EDIT: To clarify, the V79 sped it up but you have to be quick through the final passthrough, calling P41, and ENTER on the N18 to make it not slip.
 
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thermocalc

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Hi, just splashdown ....:cheers:
I really enjoyed A10, it allowed me to practicing the LM without too much stress as in A11 or A9 (with complications derived by the atmospheric drag); the views of the moon landing and landmark sites during all P22's were very nice ....
before to move on I will try once again all LM sequences from undocking to docking to feel more confident...at my 3rd attempt I managed to dock, using orbiter docking "staff" so not honestly purely self contained LGC and LM "staff", but now that I managed to do at least once, knowing that I can find the CSM and more or less dock, gave me more confidence .... :)
Along the way I may come back here for some more explanations; I finished to read the FP6 AGS manual (after 4-5 months unbelievable), this time I will keep an eyes also on the AGS to get more feeling about it.

one unrelated question:
I noticed that we are most of the time "confined" into the cockpit to do steps so that we lost most of the outside view, ok most of the time is dark and black and cannot see anything, but i was just wandering if there is an orbiter MFD which you can keep running inside the cockpit as "external MFD" showing the "external view/world" as the simulation unfold....so to can view at the same time both inside the cockpit and outside the spacecraft......if there is one please advice where to find it or download it....or if there is a "trick" to can enjoy the external view (from time to time) without hitting the F1 bottom so to speak ... ehehehe.
Thanks and goodbye to all "out there"...(y)
 
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