Advanced Question Add features to a blackbird

[TMHLIVE]

I would like to turn a blackbird into a space craft. I have looked for the config file to see if something can be done and no joy with finding anything that would make a difference.

I would like to add

thrusters (for space flight)
hover engines (it makes the sound on thrust up but 0.00 on the display)
and finally change the power of the main engines from 250k to a high setting to allow better acceleration and maneuvers

the addon i am using is a stright sr 71 blackbird from the hanger with a spacecraftdll2 i think...if that means anything to anyone I may be wrong though. I don't know anything about programming or anything like that.

oh and totally lol

 

[orbitingpluto]

If you take a look into the spacecraft3 manual, it will explain how increase thrust, add thrusters, and a whole lot of other neat things. No programming knowledge required, and it's easy to change a spacecraft2 vessel into a spacecraft3 one, so no worries there either. Just open up the scenario file with the Blackbird in it, and find the line:

BEGIN_SHIPS

Somewhere below that you'll see a line like:

Blackbird:spacecraft\spacecraft2

Change the 2 to a 3, and it's done. Simple, and AFAIK without problems.

 

[TMHLIVE]

Perfect...now where is this manual you speak of. Is it on the forum or in the hanger? thanks for the hit back to!

 

[orbitingpluto]

If you obtained the spacecraft3 package from Vinka's site, you already have the manual. I can't think of anywhere else it it would be.

 

[TMHLIVE]

nah your totally right..I did have it. that manual is great for telling you what everything is. And yes making the changes are super easy but, that being said... Messing with the flight dynamics of a given ship/plane is super intense not knowing what your doing.

for example

the plane has a set of given peramiters that have to do with how the wings and the flaps etc etc funtion as thrust is added the plane wants to go up due to the lift of the wings and reverse right. so more thrust faster the ship wants to climb. this is a issue when it comes to atmo flight. Not so much when it comes to space flight yes.

so how do i alter one and make sure the other is fine. I would much prefer the plan want to stay level like the firefly does. I have not found that ships config file so I can't copy the settings from there.

---------- Post added at 01:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------

the firefly looks to be a dll i think not SC3

---------- Post added at 02:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 AM ----------

Never mind, don't worry about it. this will just drive me crazy. i will just stick to my firefly till my ship is built by someone who has more skill them me.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Here, I made this a while back...

http://www.mediafire.com/download/pax0s2z5z8e6ggi/Spacecraft_3_Tutorial.zip

 

[TMHLIVE]

Here, I made this a while back...

http://www.mediafire.com/download/pax0s2z5z8e6ggi/Spacecraft_3_Tutorial.zip

ya mav that helps out big acturally. But can you give me a hint or two to what I need to change. the engine thrust I get by comparing it to other configs.

But when I add more thrust it make more front end lift cause thats what planes do but how to I drop that when I make the engines more powerful. there are so many things here.

[PARTICLESTREAM_1]
NAME=engine1
SRCSIZE=0.5
SRCRATE=700
V0=100.0
SRCSPREAD=0.01
LIFETIME=0.055
GROWTHRATE=1.9
ATMSLOWDOWN=1.0
LTYPE=DIFFUSE
LEVELMAP=LVL_PSQRT
LMIN=0
LMAX=2
ATMSMAP=ATM_PLOG
AMIN=1e-4
AMAX=1

[CONFIG]
MESHNAME="K-SR-71A-v2"
SIZE=10
EMPTY_MASS=18000
FUEL_MASS=20000
MAIN_THRUST=2.5e5
RETRO_THRUST=1e3
ATTITUDE_THRUST=5e3
ISP=50000
TRIM=0.05
PMI=(15.5,22.1,7.7)
CW_Z_POS=0.09
CW_Z_NEG=0.09
CW_X=2.
CW_Y=1.4
CROSS_SECTION=(53.0,186.9,25.9)
COG=2.47
PITCH_MOMENT_SCALE=0.00005
BANK_MOMENT_SCALE=0.00005
ROT_DRAG=(1.5,1.5,1.5)
WING_ASPECT=0.7
WING_EFFECTIVENESS=2.5
LAND_PT1=(0,-2.8,9)
LAND_PT2=(-4,-2.8,-5)
LAND_PT3=(4,-2.8,-5)
MAIN_PSTREAM1=engine1

[SOUND]
MAIN_THRUST=Sound\Vessel\SR-71\SR-71.wav
RCS_THRUST_ATTACK=Sound\Vessel\roll.wav
RCS_THRUST_SUSTAIN=Sound\Vessel\roll.wav

[AERODYNAMICS]
; lift/drag attack point of the vertical airfoil
VAIRFOIL_ATTACK=(0,0,-0.5)
; wing chord length of the vertical airfoil
VAIRFOIL_CHORD=20
; wing area of the vertical airfoil
VAIRFOIL_AREA=270
; wing aspect ratio of the vertical airfoil
VAIRFOIL_ASPECT=2.266
; lift/drag attack point of the horizontal airfoil
HAIRFOIL_ATTACK=(0,0,-4)
; wing chord length of the horizontal airfoil
HAIRFOIL_CHORD=20
; wing area of the horizontal airfoil
HAIRFOIL_AREA=50
; wing aspect ratio of the horizontal airfoil
HAIRFOIL_ASPECT=1.5
; surface area of aileron
AILERON_AREA=5
; lift change of aileron
AILERON_LIFT=3.3
; lift/drag attack point of left aileron (right aileron deduced by x -> -x
AILERON_ATTACK=(7,-0.5,-15)
; surface area of elevator
AILERON_RIGHT_ANIM=3
; reference to animation sequence for the right aileron
AILERON_LEFT_ANIM=2
; surface area of elevator
ELEVATOR_AREA=6.7
; lift change of elevator
ELEVATOR_LIFT=3.0
; lift/drag attack point of elevator
ELEVATOR_ATTACK=(0,0,-15)
; reference to animation sequence of elevator
ELEVATOR_ANIM=1
; surface area of rudder
RUDDER_AREA=2
; lift change of rudder
RUDDER_LIFT=1.5
; lift/drag attack point of rudder
RUDDER_ATTACK=(0,3,-16)
; reference to animation sequence of rudder
RUDDER_ANIM=4
; speed brake maximum drag change
SPEEDBRAKE_DRAG=5
; speed brake drag attack point
SPEEDBRAKE_ATTACK=(0,7.5,-14);

[EX_MAIN_0]
OFF=(-4,-0.4,-13.3)
DIR=(0,0,-1)
LENGTH=8
WIDTH=0.5

[EX_MAIN_1]
OFF=(4,-0.4,-13.3)
DIR=(0,0,-1)
LENGTH=8
WIDTH=0.5

[ANIM_SEQ_0]
; landing gear
KEY=G
DURATION=6.7

[ANIM_SEQ_1]
; elevator
INIT_POS=0.5

[ANIM_SEQ_2]
; left aileron
INIT_POS=0.5

[ANIM_SEQ_3]
; right aileron
INIT_POS=0.5

[ANIM_SEQ_4]
; rudder
INIT_POS=0.5

[ANIM_COMP_0]
; front gear cover
SEQ=0
GROUPS=54
RANGE=(0.5,0.9)
ROT_PNT=(-0.40,-1,4.1)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=95

[ANIM_COMP_1]
; rear left gear cover
SEQ=0
GROUPS=55
RANGE=(0.5,0.9)
ROT_PNT=(-2.4,-0.7,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=105

[ANIM_COMP_2]
; rear right gear cover
SEQ=0
GROUPS=56
RANGE=(0.5,0.9)
ROT_PNT=(2.4,-0.7,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=-105

[ANIM_COMP_3]
; front gear
SEQ=0
GROUPS=0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,71,72
RANGE=(0.1,0.5)
ROT_PNT=(0,-1.2,6.2)
ROT_AXIS=(1,0,0)
ANGLE=-100

[ANIM_COMP_4]
; rear right gear
SEQ=0
GROUPS=13,14,15,16,19,76,77,78
RANGE=(0.1,0.5)
ROT_PNT=(2.4,-0.7,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=-91

[ANIM_COMP_5]
; rear left gear
SEQ=0
GROUPS=8,9,10,11,12,73,74,75
RANGE=(0.1,0.5)
ROT_PNT=(-2.4,-0.7,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=91

[ANIM_COMP_6]
SEQ=1
GROUPS=28,29
ROT_PNT=(0,-0.3,-13.5)
ROT_AXIS=(1,0,0)
ANGLE=22

[ANIM_COMP_7]
SEQ=2
GROUPS=34,35,36,37
ROT_PNT=(-10,-0.4,-12.0)
ROT_AXIS=(1,0,0)
ANGLE=-20;

[ANIM_COMP_8]
SEQ=3
GROUPS=30,31,32,33
ROT_PNT=(10,-0.4,-12.0)
ROT_AXIS=(1,0,0)
ANGLE=20;

[ANIM_COMP_9]
; rear left middle gear cover
SEQ=0
GROUPS=57
RANGE=(0.5,0.9)
ROT_PNT=(-0.1,-0.7,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=-80

[ANIM_COMP_10]
; rear right middle gear cover
SEQ=0
GROUPS=58
RANGE=(0.5,0.9)
ROT_PNT=(0.1,-0.7,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=80

[ANIM_COMP_11]
; rear left gear strut
SEQ=0
GROUPS=17
RANGE=(0.1,0.5)
ROT_PNT=(-1.0,-0.5,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=-30

[ANIM_COMP_12]
; rear right gear conrod
SEQ=0
GROUPS=19
RANGE=(0.5,0.7)
ROT_PNT=(1.5,-0.5,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=88

[ANIM_COMP_13]
; rear right gear strut
SEQ=0
GROUPS=18
RANGE=(0.1,0.5)
ROT_PNT=(1.0,-0.5,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=30

[ANIM_COMP_14]
; rear left gear conrod
SEQ=0
GROUPS=11
RANGE=(0.5,0.7)
ROT_PNT=(-1.5,-0.5,-7)
ROT_AXIS=(0,0,1)
ANGLE=-88

[ANIM_COMP_15]
SEQ=4
GROUPS=62,65
RANGE=(0,1)
ROT_PNT=(-3.6,2,-13.2);
ROT_AXIS=(0.143,0.975,-0.172);
ANGLE=-33;

[ANIM_COMP_16]
SEQ=4
GROUPS=63,66
RANGE=(0,1)
ROT_PNT=(3.6,2,-13.2)
ROT_AXIS=(-0.143,0.975,-0.172)
ANGLE=-33

 

[statickid]

Here's my quick and dirty suggestion if you JUST WANNA FLY THE DANG THING ALREADY:

Step 1: Make a backup config.

Step 2: Delete all of this from the

[AERODYNAMICS]

:

; lift/drag attack point of the vertical airfoil
VAIRFOIL_ATTACK=(0,0,-0.5)
; wing chord length of the vertical airfoil
VAIRFOIL_CHORD=20
; wing area of the vertical airfoil
VAIRFOIL_AREA=270
; wing aspect ratio of the vertical airfoil
VAIRFOIL_ASPECT=2.266
; lift/drag attack point of the horizontal airfoil
HAIRFOIL_ATTACK=(0,0,-4)
; wing chord length of the horizontal airfoil
HAIRFOIL_CHORD=20
; wing area of the horizontal airfoil
HAIRFOIL_AREA=50
; wing aspect ratio of the horizontal airfoil
HAIRFOIL_ASPECT=1.5
; surface area of aileron
AILERON_AREA=5
; lift change of aileron
AILERON_LIFT=3.3
; lift/drag attack point of left aileron (right aileron deduced by x -> -x
AILERON_ATTACK=(7,-0.5,-15)
; surface area of elevator
AILERON_RIGHT_ANIM=3
; reference to animation sequence for the right aileron
AILERON_LEFT_ANIM=2
; surface area of elevator
ELEVATOR_AREA=6.7
; lift change of elevator
ELEVATOR_LIFT=3.0
; lift/drag attack point of elevator
ELEVATOR_ATTACK=(0,0,-15)
; reference to animation sequence of elevator
ELEVATOR_ANIM=1
; surface area of rudder
RUDDER_AREA=2
; lift change of rudder
RUDDER_LIFT=1.5
; lift/drag attack point of rudder
RUDDER_ATTACK=(0,3,-16)
; reference to animation sequence of rudder
RUDDER_ANIM=4
; speed brake maximum drag change
SPEEDBRAKE_DRAG=5
; speed brake drag attack point
SPEEDBRAKE_ATTACK=(0,7.5,-14);

Step 3: Paste in this:

MODEL : dglider

following the instructions given in page 4 of the SC3 manual:

[AERODYNAMICS]
• newMODEL : possible values are “shuttle”, “dglider” or “capsule”. If you know nothing at
aerodynamics, this is the only parameters that you must specify. All other parameters
related to aerodynamics will take default values according to the model chosen. For
“shuttle”, Orbiter default values given for space shuttle Atlantis will be used. For “dglider”,
Orbiter default values given for delta glider will be used. For “capsule”, another set of
default values are used...

GOOD LUCK! :thumbup:

P.S.: sorry actually DONT delete the animation references which are clearly marked "ANIM" or the flaps and junk won't move anymore.

 

[TMHLIVE]

PERFECT...THANK YOU. And thanks for the tip about the ANIM. Perfect perfect perfect!

---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

UPDATE: That worked out pretty nice. I had no idea really what that was talking about in the manual. Both manuals actually. It still pulls up at max thrust after I made the engines push better. I think it has to do with the way it is in atmo vs in space cause no atmo means no pulling as tested on the moon. It's kinda a pain the the butt cause I'm keyboarding it right now but I'm dealing. It works and very happy for that. I switched to shuttle mode to see if that helped and no not really.

 

[statickid]

I would recommend matching the thrust to match the dglider. It sounds like you may have matched the thrust to a ... rocket perhaps?

the engine thrust I get by comparing it to other configs.

in theory matching the thrust to dg thrust and using the dg aerodynamic model would allow you to have level flight... in theory :shifty:

another possibility is just considering it a characteristic of your spacecraft that is known and included in your flight procedure, example: 85% max thrust for slightly pitched ascent through such and such altitudes, increased to 100% at 90km, or whatever

---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------

EDIT:

Maybe your craft is better suited for flight on mars. Not all winged craft need be optimized for Earth flight.

If you take off with XR or DG on Titan, it will have severe pitching problems at max thrust. So really flight characteristics are relative to the atmosphere you are flying in.

 

[TMHLIVE]

ya I have altered my flight to compensate for what happens. Basiclly I am trying to turn a blackbird into both a in atmo assault plane and a space craft to. I have also posted about trying to make it bigger to be more spaceship like rather then a itty bitty plane. The idea was to have a ship that can be in and out fast. that being said I have really punched up the power of it from 250k to 2.00m, added hover jets as well as increased the attitude thrusters as well. Yes I know I am really playing around with it but its a test for a later project basically.

 

[Loru]

In layman terms spacecraft3 framework applies rotational momentum depending on your lift/speed/AOA in atmosphere which is hardcoded in spacecraft3.dll and there is no easy way to override it. Carefully tuning thrust and aerodynamics may reduce problem but basically more dynamic pressure on the plane, the more angular momentum you'll have (pitch up).

IMO that was trade off for relative simplicity of spacecraft3 and from my experience it was good call by Vinka.

 

[TMHLIVE]

In layman terms spacecraft3 framework applies rotational momentum depending on your lift/speed/AOA in atmosphere which is hardcoded in spacecraft3.dll and there is no easy way to override it. Carefully tuning thrust and aerodynamics may reduce problem but basically more dynamic pressure on the plane, the more angular momentum you'll have (pitch up).

IMO that was trade off for relative simplicity of spacecraft3 and from my experience it was good call by Vinka.

good to know and thank you for the info. so if i was to drop the pressure it might help out?

 

[statickid]

Maybe you can test this by trying capsule model, which should have very little lift except at hyper sonic speeds and then mainly controlled by your attitude.

I was under the impression the pitching was from the collective lift gained from asymmetrical airflow being greater than what can be affected by the control surfaces. For example a vinka rocket wouldn't pitch up would it?

 

[TMHLIVE]

Brother you seem to know a lot more about this then me thats for sure. And I have no idea what your talking about well maybe I do.

 

[statickid]

Nah just some bloke who played Orbiter a whole bunch and read a lot of junk trying to figure out what the Heck is going on or why I can't do what I'm trying to do :lol:

 

[TMHLIVE]

after playin around a bit i find the cap is the best setting...it still pulls up on thrust but i am dealing with it.

---------- Post added at 04:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 AM ----------

Nah just some bloke who played Orbiter a whole bunch and read a lot of junk trying to figure out what the Heck is going on or why I can't do what I'm trying to do :lol:

I cant wait till the ship i really wanna fly is made. Then I wont need these temp ships that are just getting me through.