A11 - MCC scenario - NASSP v8 rev.1756 - General checklist items questions from 82h to 98h GET

thermocalc

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Hi all,

Sorry to be back so soon with CSM/LM related questions while in lunar orbit …but want to make sure I am OK with my missions and I didn't screw up things....
I am observing the following facts from approx. GET 82h to 98h…mission time.

1) During “LM Comm activation” I saw a lot of yellow text concerning “voice checks”, see “photo 1 – voice checks”…can I skip all or shall I have to call up MCC menu and hit “1 – Voice check” any time a yellow text is displayed?
2) From about GET 83h to 84h while in the CSM, CSM tunnel hatch as well as LM hatch open, and CDR+LMP inside the LM I keep having “HI O2 FLOW” alarms from time to time, it happened at least 3 times every approx. 10min…the O2 flow meter start increasing go to max triggering the alarm, and then by itself is going down and then up again .. it seems like is having some sort of oscillatory behaviors…is it normal at this stage of the mission? If so, what is the physics behind this “periodical” behavior? I set the PAMFD ECS crew numbers as in the checklist, 2 in LM and 1 in CSM, and "in cabin" at all times ...
3) I saw the following yellow texts in the checklists at about 96h GET before the EPS LM activation: “LMP LM Familiarization”, “CDR Don PGA w/o Helmet&Gloves”, I guess I must do anything … right?
4) At time 96h20m during “CDR to LM ECS” there is a yellow text indicating “Connect CDR suit hoses”…I guess nothing to do here, just “skip” this line with PRO and go on with the next items in the checklist, right? (see photo 3) – same applies for the “Connect LMP suit hoses” later on the checklist for “LMP to LM ECS”….right?
5) When time came to power up the C/W and LGC I got these orange alarms lights on I the LGC: TEMP, PROG, RESTART; while the last 2 went away later on (on schedule) the TEMP alarm was always steady on, even at about GET +97h after completing all LM systems tasks…is it normal? see “photo 4 – TEMP alarm still ON” on LGC.
6) At about 97h during “Sec S-BD TR & PWR AMPL check” the following yellow texts are there: “Notify MSFN or SEC S-BD check” and “Perform Comm Check”…and again yellow texts at GET > 97h during VHF B and A checkout, “Perform Voice check on WHF Simplex B” and “Perform Voice Check on VHF Simplex A” --- I guess can be “skipped”…they are just for information, right? Same as my question 1?
7) Finally a possible texture related issues? With the CSM tunnel hatch open and LM overhead hatch open from the CSM “looking trough the LM tunnel” you see the “outside of the LM” not the interior, from the LM “locking trough the CSM tunnel” you see the inside of the LEB, which seems ok. Can it be only a my PC issues? (I guess as I saw nobody reported this in the forum), see “photo

thanks.
PC
 

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rcflyinghokie13

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1) During “LM Comm activation” I saw a lot of yellow text concerning “voice checks”, see “photo 1 – voice checks”…can I skip all or shall I have to call up MCC menu and hit “1 – Voice check” any time a yellow text is displayed?
Voice checks aren't currently simulated, so you can just proceed through those. That is why they are currently yellow as "placeholders."
2) From about GET 83h to 84h while in the CSM, CSM tunnel hatch as well as LM hatch open, and CDR+LMP inside the LM I keep having “HI O2 FLOW” alarms from time to time, it happened at least 3 times every approx. 10min…the O2 flow meter start increasing go to max triggering the alarm, and then by itself is going down and then up again .. it seems like is having some sort of oscillatory behaviors…is it normal at this stage of the mission? If so, what is the physics behind this “periodical” behavior? I set the PAMFD ECS crew numbers as in the checklist, 2 in LM and 1 in CSM, and "in cabin" at all times ...
Based on this comment and your temperature comment, I am wondering if you are using an older scenario with the newer version of NASSP. If that is the case its possibly your scenario file is missing certain things and changes that were added. Can you please post a scn file so I can investigate and see if this is indeed the case?
3) I saw the following yellow texts in the checklists at about 96h GET before the EPS LM activation: “LMP LM Familiarization”, “CDR Don PGA w/o Helmet&Gloves”, I guess I must do anything … right?
Same as answer #1, those are currently placeholders. I do have plans for making the suits function a little better by including a helmet and gloves on/off condition in the future.
4) At time 96h20m during “CDR to LM ECS” there is a yellow text indicating “Connect CDR suit hoses”…I guess nothing to do here, just “skip” this line with PRO and go on with the next items in the checklist, right? (see photo 3) – same applies for the “Connect LMP suit hoses” later on the checklist for “LMP to LM ECS”….right?
Same answer as #1, those are placeholders for features we have yet to implement.
5) When time came to power up the C/W and LGC I got these orange alarms lights on I the LGC: TEMP, PROG, RESTART; while the last 2 went away later on (on schedule) the TEMP alarm was always steady on, even at about GET +97h after completing all LM systems tasks…is it normal? see “photo 4 – TEMP alarm still ON” on LGC.
This makes me think you have an older scn file with a newer version of NASSP, as stated in #2 please post your scn file so I can take a look.
6) At about 97h during “Sec S-BD TR & PWR AMPL check” the following yellow texts are there: “Notify MSFN or SEC S-BD check” and “Perform Comm Check”…and again yellow texts at GET > 97h during VHF B and A checkout, “Perform Voice check on WHF Simplex B” and “Perform Voice Check on VHF Simplex A” --- I guess can be “skipped”…they are just for information, right? Same as my question 1?
Same answer as #1, features not implemented an those are placeholders.
7) Finally a possible texture related issues? With the CSM tunnel hatch open and LM overhead hatch open from the CSM “looking trough the LM tunnel” you see the “outside of the LM” not the interior, from the LM “locking trough the CSM tunnel” you see the inside of the LEB, which seems ok. Can it be only a my PC issues? (I guess as I saw nobody reported this in the forum), see “photo
This has likely been identified before, but I don't think it has much traction yet. What FOV are you using inside the spacecraft? You should be using 60 to have everything appear correct (other than optics panels which set the proper FOV automatically.
 

rcflyinghokie13

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Also if you like, you can keep your mission questions in one thread, makes it a bit easier, both for us troubleshooting and likely for you, to keep track in one place instead of multiple threads :) Feel free to keep using this one moving forward and we will see it just as easily.
 

thermocalc

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Thanks for the quick answers...I arrived to the "AGS set time" just over +99h after getting the MCC update in the LM ... and I stop here for a while.

Before starting Apollo 11 I downloaded "Orbiter Beta r90", with "D3D9ClientBeta30.7-forBETA r90(r1436)" than on top I loaded the "NASSP-V8.0-Beta-Orbiter2016-1756" revision.

To start I "think" to have used the "Apollo 11 MCC - Launch" and I am keep saving scenarios from time to time to move one day by day, to save I use "Scenario Editor" hitting "save" option and entering the scenario title (I said "think" as to be honest, I was experiencing problems with the automatic checklist execution when starting from the -4h countdown; but after installing and updating everything from scratch I didn't have more issues-; as the problems were related to SM RCS activation and EPO insertion ( from T -20min" ) I am not so sure now if I started my new mission with the real +4h countdown or I just by using the "Apollo 11 - 01 - Before Launch T-20min" scenario (which I supposed to be UPDATED with the newest revision) to don't lost another evening of switch flipping only .... if so I am very sorry for this silly mistake from mine :mad:

I send you some scenarios taken at these times for your troubleshooting:

T -5m to Apollo 11 Lift Off -> the scenario I saved just before launching .... all others are coming from this one -> if this is wrong all others will also be wrong.

T +83h 12m when I got the 1st O2 high flow alarm (I was using time acceleration x10 before it was happening)

T +83h 19m when I got the 2nd O2 high flow alarm (starting from the previous scenario, after a while the O2 flow indicator went down and then started again to raise up to give a second alarm, I used time acceleration x10 before I happened)

T +96h 20m by powering up the LM I got the PROG and TEMP alarm … if I go on to do the PGNS activation as instructed by the checklist, the PROG goes away but the TEMP stay on…

T +99h 03m where I am now, just got the SV updates and LS REFSMMAT from MCC and I should do the AGS initialization…TEMP light is still on.



About texture and FOV ….
I saw I was using 90 degree FOV, for some reasons, but more generally (as I am using a laptop with screen ratio 16:9) I always have issues with the correct “screen view” set-up, as if I use the arrow keys the views are always “scrolling” … I was wondering what is the “native” screen resolution to use in NASSP? to have the "scree fixed" so to speak...for sighting outside the windows is really a problem...I had hard time to dock as the COAS was moving around depending on how I pressed the arrow keys ....
and now for the LM it is even more difficult to get the correct “point of view”…
so I was wondering is there is a specific screen resolution recommend for CSM and LM in NASSP.

Thank you, I will keep posting here for the rest of this mission...i was not sure if I could do it, as even if pertinent to A11 mission they were related to different aspects of the mission....
PC
 

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rcflyinghokie13

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Thanks for the quick answers...I arrived to the "AGS set time" just over +99h after getting the MCC update in the LM ... and I stop here for a while.

Before starting Apollo 11 I downloaded "Orbiter Beta r90", with "D3D9ClientBeta30.7-forBETA r90(r1436)" than on top I loaded the "NASSP-V8.0-Beta-Orbiter2016-1756" revision.

To start I "think" to have used the "Apollo 11 MCC - Launch" and I am keep saving scenarios from time to time to move one day by day, to save I use "Scenario Editor" hitting "save" option and entering the scenario title (I said "think" as to be honest, I was experiencing problems with the automatic checklist execution when starting from the -4h countdown; but after installing and updating everything from scratch I didn't have more issues-; as the problems were related to SM RCS activation and EPO insertion ( from T -20min" ) I am not so sure now if I started my new mission with the real +4h countdown or I just by using the "Apollo 11 - 01 - Before Launch T-20min" scenario (which I supposed to be UPDATED with the newest revision) to don't lost another evening of switch flipping only .... if so I am very sorry for this silly mistake from mine :mad:

I send you some scenarios taken at these times for your troubleshooting:

T -5m to Apollo 11 Lift Off -> the scenario I saved just before launching .... all others are coming from this one -> if this is wrong all others will also be wrong.

T +83h 12m when I got the 1st O2 high flow alarm (I was using time acceleration x10 before it was happening)

T +83h 19m when I got the 2nd O2 high flow alarm (starting from the previous scenario, after a while the O2 flow indicator went down and then started again to raise up to give a second alarm, I used time acceleration x10 before I happened)

T +96h 20m by powering up the LM I got the PROG and TEMP alarm … if I go on to do the PGNS activation as instructed by the checklist, the PROG goes away but the TEMP stay on…

T +99h 03m where I am now, just got the SV updates and LS REFSMMAT from MCC and I should do the AGS initialization…TEMP light is still on.



About texture and FOV ….
I saw I was using 90 degree FOV, for some reasons, but more generally (as I am using a laptop with screen ratio 16:9) I always have issues with the correct “screen view” set-up, as if I use the arrow keys the views are always “scrolling” … I was wondering what is the “native” screen resolution to use in NASSP? to have the "scree fixed" so to speak...for sighting outside the windows is really a problem...I had hard time to dock as the COAS was moving around depending on how I pressed the arrow keys ....
and now for the LM it is even more difficult to get the correct “point of view”…
so I was wondering is there is a specific screen resolution recommend for CSM and LM in NASSP.

Thank you, I will keep posting here for the rest of this mission...i was not sure if I could do it, as even if pertinent to A11 mission they were related to different aspects of the mission....
PC
So I think I have a few answers for you here...

Regarding the LGC temperature, you have the IMU heaters off, so the temperature is falling down to the glycol temperature which is of course much cooler. Both IMU STBY and OPR breakers on Panel 11 are open here so the IMU has cooled off enough to trigger the light.

Regarding your O2 flow high, there is still some instability with time acceleration and having the tunnel open. I would recommend leaving the tunnel closed before accelerating to be safe. This is likely the reason behind your flow high alarms.

Also, I see you have some CO2 buildup in the LM, did you use the CSM O2 hose in the LM before activating the LM ECS? (It is in the PAMFD ECS menu in the CSM) While you should be ok, this step is necessary when you are in the LM without it's suit fans running to prevent CO2 buildup.

Regarding your display settings, I personally run 1920x1080 in full screen window with an FOV of 60 and that seems to work well for me.

So your scenario file seems fine and I say you should press on! Feel free to keep asking questions along the way!
 

thermocalc

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Thanks a lot for the investigations.:salute:
don't know why the heaters were off, probably missed steps to rush following the time line as too many new thinks for me to do in the LM for the first time...I will re-do again the LM activation and I will stay more careful, same for closing the tunnel.

about the "CSM O2 hose" ... I saw this new button in the PAMFD, I red about it in a threat but I didn't fully understand when to use it, I supposed it should have been written in some parts of the checklist....if so maybe it was one of the yellow items which i skipped??

Anyhow, are you meaning that when the CDR or LMP or both move from CSM to LM (before activating the LM ECS as you said) - when I decrease the number of crew members from 3 to 1 in the CSM and increment from 0 to 2 in the LM - I also need to "push" the CSM O2 hose in the CSM PAMFD? so that I will have CDR+LMP in the LM as "in cabin" status? if i close the tunnel hatch don't I "cut" the virtual hoses? .... ok, i will try, but then once I activate the LM ECS shall I need to go back to the CSM to "deactivate the HOSES"?
thanks again, happy the problems were "technical" not software related :hailprobe: -> AMAZING job you guys did here, I guess if some of you were working for NASA the next Moon landing would not be slipped away again...and again...I guess Artemis will be for my son to look, i lost any hope to can see human on the moon soon by my eyes.....
:sleep: very late for me now....
 

rcflyinghokie13

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don't know why the heaters were off, probably missed steps to rush following the time line as too many new thinks for me to do in the LM for the first time...I will re-do again the LM activation and I will stay more careful, same for closing the tunnel.
Other than 13, no mission ever pulled the IMU STBY breaker, so somewhere you pulled it by mistake. All the checklist charts should have that breaker in. Push this back in and the light should go off soon after.
about the "CSM O2 hose" ... I saw this new button in the PAMFD, I red about it in a threat but I didn't fully understand when to use it, I supposed it should have been written in some parts of the checklist....if so maybe it was one of the yellow items which i skipped??
That was something we didn't define well in the checklist MFD yet because it is a WIP system. I think it's in the release work thread but with the CSM ECS rework though, it will be clarified for sure.
Anyhow, are you meaning that when the CDR or LMP or both move from CSM to LM (before activating the LM ECS as you said) - when I decrease the number of crew members from 3 to 1 in the CSM and increment from 0 to 2 in the LM - I also need to "push" the CSM O2 hose in the CSM PAMFD? so that I will have CDR+LMP in the LM as "in cabin" status? if i close the tunnel hatch don't I "cut" the virtual hoses? .... ok, i will try, but then once I activate the LM ECS shall I need to go back to the CSM to "deactivate the HOSES"?
So basically if your tunnel is open, the button will work to "connect" the hose. What it does is simulates taking one of the suit hoses and running it down the tunnel into the LM which is what was actually done on the missions you will see it on the IVT checklists.

In your case, whenever you have crew in the LM, and the LM ECS is not running (suit fans are off) then you want to connect that hose. It provides oxygen flow into the LM, raising it's pressure enough to force CO2 up the tunnel and into the CSM LiOH as well as making sure conditioned air is being plumbed into the LM and moving around (as it would not circulate naturally in zero gravity.)

As soon as the LM ECS is powered up, it's safe to disconnect the hose. You want to disconnect before closing the tunnel hatch. It was normally brought back into the CSM on the last IVT before closing the hatch (LMP going back into the CSM briefly.)
 

thermocalc

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Hi,

I spent some days to read about some LM systems & panels and get some first glimpse over the LGC and AGS (deeper studies will come during the weekend), I just started, and I managed to maintain the tight timeline up to about 99h, when I have set the AGS time at about 99:03:00. After that up to undocking I totally lost control of the events and I am always behind schedule, I tried 3 times, but always with same results, so I am not sure if my interpretation of the checklist from 99h to undocking is correct, please stay with me.

Q1) I got the LS REFSMMAT + CSM/LM SV uplinks in the LGC at about 99h GET, than I move on to set the AGS time (377) Biased (90h) -> photo 1. I got the AGS K Factor+AGS abort constants PAD at 99h 5m and then I was supposed to carry out the blue checklist items for which the PAD values are required going back into the CM to get the P30 Pad for the separation manvr after ORDEAL Initialization … but I got it at 99h 7m while still busy to “perform AGS Initialization” in the LM… how can be possible? So I stop what I was doing in the LM, switch to CM and uplink the PAD, then back to LM and carrying out what I was doing (see photo 2), this bring to the next question.

Q2) if I am doing staff in the LM and I got a MCC uplink message for the CSM can I interrupt what I was doing into the LM, go back to CSM, get the uplink and go back to the LM to finish there? Or doing so I will screw up all logic temporal sequence of the checklist? If I can’t do that than I guess I screw up the temporal sequence and this may well explains all the subsequent problems I had, in particular see Q6.

As a “time check point” for me, if I set the AGS time at about 99h and some minutes am I on the right temporal track or am I already behind schedule?

Q3) inside the CSM at some point there is the action “CMP DON PGA” (photo 3). The first 2 yellow items I guess are not simulated, but what to do next? “suit flow vlv – cabin flow (for unsuited crewman)” -> CDR and LMP are in the LM, attached to the LM ECS, with all hatches closed and sealed, so I can let 302 and 303 vlv in Cabin flow right? EMER CAB PRESS sel – OFF (if all suited) -> CMP is suited and he is alone in the CSM, so it should be OFF? (see photo 3)

Q4) During the “AGS Initialization” it is requested to read out the value of 514R, 515R and 516R wit “PAD Value” in yellow, when I did I got all zeros, and no PAD values for 514-515-516 were uplinked; I guess in future “AGS uplinks” these variables will be there to compare with what the AGS will tell us? So should I not worry at this stage I guess…right?

Q5) during the RNDZ RDR Self test – it is said to verify that the “CSM Radar Xponder” sw is OFF … is the one in photo 4? It was on PRIM before I moved back to OFF. If not, where is it?

Q6) After the “RCS Hot Fire” I should go to CSM, I guess to set the craft to the AGS Calibration attitude which follow next in the LM checklist, but once I go there I see the text: “Maneuver To AGS Calibration attitude” in white and next the item “T +99:43:00” … where are the P-R-Y angles? BUT if I am doing the actions in the LM supposed to start at 99h 32m and I went back to the CSM at 99h 34m 40s after doing the RNDZ RDR self test why the CSM tell me do wait until 99h 43m?? and where is then "usual" yellow ntext telling the angles at which to turn the CSM? I guess I screwed up the temporal sequence of the event .. maybe when I went back to the CSM to get the SEP PAD? (see my 1st and 2nd question, and photo 5 for the sequence).

Q7) during the “undocking” checklist it is said to “EVENT TIMER – SET (Count up to undocking”) -> when is the undocking time? Is it at SEPARATION TIG TIME (got from the P30 Pad) – 25min ? (after all later on I am asked to flip the docking release sw at this time to undock)

Thank you very much.
 

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rcflyinghokie13

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Q1) I got the LS REFSMMAT + CSM/LM SV uplinks in the LGC at about 99h GET, than I move on to set the AGS time (377) Biased (90h) -> photo 1. I got the AGS K Factor+AGS abort constants PAD at 99h 5m and then I was supposed to carry out the blue checklist items for which the PAD values are required going back into the CM to get the P30 Pad for the separation manvr after ORDEAL Initialization … but I got it at 99h 7m while still busy to “perform AGS Initialization” in the LM… how can be possible? So I stop what I was doing in the LM, switch to CM and uplink the PAD, then back to LM and carrying out what I was doing (see photo 2), this bring to the next question.
One thing you have to keep in mind is you are juggling checklists normally performed by 3 people in 2 vehicles. So we have done our best to incorporate and facilitate that into the timeline. So while you might get the PAD a little early, just keep pressing on until you get to the Switch to CM message then perform the CSM side.


Q2) if I am doing staff in the LM and I got a MCC uplink message for the CSM can I interrupt what I was doing into the LM, go back to CSM, get the uplink and go back to the LM to finish there? Or doing so I will screw up all logic temporal sequence of the checklist? If I can’t do that than I guess I screw up the temporal sequence and this may well explains all the subsequent problems I had, in particular see Q6.
Just finish what you are doing in the LM and switch to the CM when prompted, this should keep you on time.

As a “time check point” for me, if I set the AGS time at about 99h and some minutes am I on the right temporal track or am I already behind schedule?
AGS time on the flight plan was listed at 99:07, so if you are setting at 99h you are ahead of schedule.

Q3) inside the CSM at some point there is the action “CMP DON PGA” (photo 3). The first 2 yellow items I guess are not simulated, but what to do next? “suit flow vlv – cabin flow (for unsuited crewman)” -> CDR and LMP are in the LM, attached to the LM ECS, with all hatches closed and sealed, so I can let 302 and 303 vlv in Cabin flow right? EMER CAB PRESS sel – OFF (if all suited) -> CMP is suited and he is alone in the CSM, so it should be OFF? (see photo 3)
That is correct, just as listed. The suit flow valves aren't simulated just yet so their position on cabin or suit flow will have no impact to your mission.

Q4) During the “AGS Initialization” it is requested to read out the value of 514R, 515R and 516R wit “PAD Value” in yellow, when I did I got all zeros, and no PAD values for 514-515-516 were uplinked; I guess in future “AGS uplinks” these variables will be there to compare with what the AGS will tell us? So should I not worry at this stage I guess…right?
These values are steering unit vectors (basically where the LM should be oriented during a burn for keeping the SBD antenna pointed the right way) and are pad loaded. This just is a readout to Houston and the LM activation checklist would have these values as well but we do not have Apollo 11's LM activation checklist. Apollo 12's lists them in this spot for comparison but this is just a check.

Q5) during the RNDZ RDR Self test – it is said to verify that the “CSM Radar Xponder” sw is OFF … is the one in photo 4? It was on PRIM before I moved back to OFF. If not, where is it?
Nope that is not the correct switch. You need the CSM Radar XPDR PWR switch on panel 100. The one you flipped is a different transponder, not the rendezvous radar transponder. See the attached image.

Q6) After the “RCS Hot Fire” I should go to CSM, I guess to set the craft to the AGS Calibration attitude which follow next in the LM checklist, but once I go there I see the text: “Maneuver To AGS Calibration attitude” in white and next the item “T +99:43:00” … where are the P-R-Y angles? BUT if I am doing the actions in the LM supposed to start at 99h 32m and I went back to the CSM at 99h 34m 40s after doing the RNDZ RDR self test why the CSM tell me do wait until 99h 43m?? and where is then "usual" yellow ntext telling the angles at which to turn the CSM? I guess I screwed up the temporal sequence of the event .. maybe when I went back to the CSM to get the SEP PAD? (see my 1st and 2nd question, and photo 5 for the sequence).
They are in that block in the V49 maneuver. It has you enter RPY (000,014,014) which is the AGS CAL ATT.

Not sure I am following the rest of the question in this block...

Q7) during the “undocking” checklist it is said to “EVENT TIMER – SET (Count up to undocking”) -> when is the undocking time? Is it at SEPARATION TIG TIME (got from the P30 Pad) – 25min ? (after all later on I am asked to flip the docking release sw at this time to undock)
Yes, undocking time is sep time -25 minutes. So just use that time as did the actual mission.



Also I would encourage using the actual Apollo 11 flight plan and reference the Apollo 12 LM Activation checklist to help clarify these procedures and timelines.
 

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One thing I want to add, the updates coming from the MCC aren't done at fixed times. What can happen is that LOI is a bit delayed or early compared to the flight plan. And then every single event that happens in lunar orbit, including the landing, will be delayed/early by the same amount. So the MCC updates are scheduled relative to a revolution to take that into account. Each revolution in lunar orbit starts at crossing 180° longitude. So the e.g. TEI-30 Maneuver PAD comes 60 minutes after rev 10 was started. You might start to notice a pattern that all updates are a bit delayed/early relative to the checklist/flight plan. You should probably adjust your schedule a bit taking that into account. No need to do something exactly on time, if your lunar orbit is delayed by 10 minutes.
 

thermocalc

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Hi, I have one general question about state vector updates ... somehow related with some answers I got above (Q1 and Q2).
I know it sound silly but I have a "doubt" so sorry in advance.

say at time GET1 I got the uplink with "P30 target load + SV update" and I am going to make the uplink at later time GET2 > GTE1 ... the values of the stave vector at time GET2 will not be any longer valid ? as they were supposed to be valid at time GET1 ? how much could be a "reasonable" time delay (GTE2-GTE1) to can perform a SV update with still "reasonable" outcomes (<30sec, <1min, <5min,...), meaning that burn attitude & TIG time as predicted at time GET1 will still result in a "reasonable" good trajectory after the burn? (elsewhere in the forum I red that any time you get an uplink you should do it immediately, copying the pad values only later on ... so the "doubt").
OR simply put, burn attitude and target load as predicted by MCC are "reasonable independent" of the time the SV will be actually performed? (always considering of course delays not longer than 5-6 min says...)

BUT anyway, suppose I do the uplink at later time GET2 > GET 1 (5-6 min later, as in the case I need to finish some activities), if after that I make another uplink by myself at time GTE3 > GTE2 using PAMFD or RTCC MFD, well before the TIG, I guess that the outcome of the burn will be better isn't it?
thanks for helping me out :cheers:
 

indy91

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For the AGC it doesn't matter at all when the SV gets uplinked. When the MCC wants you to do the uplink it has already calculated the state vector (position vector, velocity vector and time when those are valid). That time is usually, but not always, the current time when the calculation was done. But in any case that state vector will be propagated to the time of ignition in P30. And for that it would only be a difference if the SV calculation was done at an other time, the uplink time doesn't matter.

The main reason you shouldn't wait too long is that the MCC might get into trouble. If you wait really long with the uplink, maybe 30+ minutes, there could be cases where the MCC jumps to the next task when the uplink is done (e.g. some PAD), but then the time for the task following that has already come and it would only show that PAD to you for 1 second and jump to the next calculation.

A delayed uplink by 5 minutes should never be an issue. It just means that you should try to catch up with the procedures so that the delay doesn't cause any problems like not being able to do a maneuver on time.
 

thermocalc

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Hi to all, I managed to land "somehow" thanks to the heavy automation involved but before to proceed need to understand better "why" I managed to land :)

Q1) At about the time to do P30 for the DOI mnvr the P-Y needles in the FDAI are not centered, who drives them there? Are they representing the RR shaft/trunnion position respectively, as I saw only the P-Y needles were off (just lucky coincidence for the R needle be centered)?
Or in this case, the R-P-Y angles required for the burn? So that when written “check error needles” we should steer the LM to “null them” knowing that at that time we will be at the correct attitude ? See photo 1

Q2) at some point it was requested to “RR Manual Lock-on” … see photo 2.
What should I have to do? Select SLEW RATE-Hi and using the SLEW button up/dw/lt/rt until I see I got a signal in the meter? then switch to AGL the rotary knob?
But how to know in which directions to look for? is there some "hints" to follow (like scan only horizontally or vertically) or should just help myself in “eye balling” the LOS of the CSM from the LM in external view to get an idea where to point the RR antenna? if I do V16 N72 which angles should I read to know the RR antenna is facing +Z direction (forward) - 00000, 00000 ?
Again, when the yellow text says: “Compare LGC, TM, CSM VHF, CMC-Record” what should I do / read from where / check what?

Q3) question related to Q1 and Q2: in the “RR self test” check I saw that the P-Y FDAI needles are showing the RR position of the shaft/trunnion respectively; but before the DOI, when in burn attitude hold, I saw that they were giving the error attitude in R-P-Y from the current position to the LGC calculated position, but how to switch from “error needles” to show RR position vs “error needles” to show “attitude errors”? are the last one available only when the LGC has been loaded with mnvr target loads like during P30? Or is there a way (switches flipping or Verb entry) to decide when and what the error needles are showing us? something like the V62 in the CSM so to speak...

Q4) before the PDI at some point it is written to do “P20 mode II lock-on” … see photo 3; and in yellow “N18 R P Y” … what is the meaning of this? “read” the N18 angles?

Q5) during PDI when it is written to check “OVH<XX”, where “XX” can change during the PDI +time, we should look at the position of the lunar surface horizon through the LM overhead window and it should be approx. below the angle indicated right? But shall we look at the horizon from the OVH of photo 4 (I guess yes) or the enlarged version for docking (photo 5)?

Q6) still during the PDI at some points the following green text appear: LPD ALT check and LPD POS check. I saw they are also written in the “PDI descent time table” at page 9 in the doc “LM timeline book” … does it simply mean that at these times they had to check outside the window where the LPD scale was visible to check outside for lunar surface landmarks / craters “showing up” on time? As when Neil said that having seen known marks arriving at not the correct time he already got the feeling that he was going to land not at the planned spot? Am I correct? If not, what we should do/look/check at these two remarks points?

Q7) I managed to land using P65 till blue contact light and stop then engine but after that the RCS jets started to fire and growing in intensity … I guess I should have flip some sw just after touch done to disable the jets for firing?

Q8) as i screwed up the time sequence again to harry up, I am not sure where I should have got the P76 and CSM rescue pads: i guess P76 inside the LM (P76 is for the LM right?) and the "CSM rescue pads" are for the CSM right?

Still many things to learn from the LM…gorgeous machine …thanks as usual for your kind help/patience.
I guess will "pause" here for a while to re-do the landing from undocking with a better understanding before move on.
PC
 

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rcflyinghokie13

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Q1) At about the time to do P30 for the DOI mnvr the P-Y needles in the FDAI are not centered, who drives them there? Are they representing the RR shaft/trunnion position respectively, as I saw only the P-Y needles were off (just lucky coincidence for the R needle be centered)?
Or in this case, the R-P-Y angles required for the burn? So that when written “check error needles” we should steer the LM to “null them” knowing that at that time we will be at the correct attitude ? See photo 1
In this case you are supposed to be checking the AGS error needles not the PGNS. Since you just enabled AGS Z axis steering and put the AGS into auto, you are supposed to verify they are pointing to the CSM.

Q2) at some point it was requested to “RR Manual Lock-on” … see photo 2.
What should I have to do? Select SLEW RATE-Hi and using the SLEW button up/dw/lt/rt until I see I got a signal in the meter? then switch to AGL the rotary knob?
But how to know in which directions to look for? is there some "hints" to follow (like scan only horizontally or vertically) or should just help myself in “eye balling” the LOS of the CSM from the LM in external view to get an idea where to point the RR antenna? if I do V16 N72 which angles should I read to know the RR antenna is facing +Z direction (forward) - 00000, 00000 ?
Again, when the yellow text says: “Compare LGC, TM, CSM VHF, CMC-Record” what should I do / read from where / check what?
In this case you should be facing the CSM still or close to it. So you simply slew until you get the maximum signal strength and get a lock. And yes, N72 at 00000 00000 means your RR is facing forward (+Z).

The compare means you are comparing the range and range rate of the vehicles. What this means is you are comparing your RR values to the LGC, telemetry (ground tracking), the CSM VHF range, and the CMC. Essentially this is a sanity check to make sure the systems are in agreement and to identify any potential errors or malfunctions.

Q3) question related to Q1 and Q2: in the “RR self test” check I saw that the P-Y FDAI needles are showing the RR position of the shaft/trunnion respectively; but before the DOI, when in burn attitude hold, I saw that they were giving the error attitude in R-P-Y from the current position to the LGC calculated position, but how to switch from “error needles” to show RR position vs “error needles” to show “attitude errors”? are the last one available only when the LGC has been loaded with mnvr target loads like during P30? Or is there a way (switches flipping or Verb entry) to decide when and what the error needles are showing us? something like the V62 in the CSM so to speak...
There is a switch right by each FDAI to select the RR or LDG RDR/COMPUTER as the error needle source.

Q4) before the PDI at some point it is written to do “P20 mode II lock-on” … see photo 3; and in yellow “N18 R P Y” … what is the meaning of this? “read” the N18 angles?
No, when you enter P20, you get a F 50 18, this just shows the attitude the LGC would orient you for a mode 1 lock on. You are bypassing it with the enter button but its yellow as a pause so you can make note of it. Since you want a mode 2 lock on, you don't want to move the LM to face the CSM.

Q5) during PDI when it is written to check “OVH<XX”, where “XX” can change during the PDI +time, we should look at the position of the lunar surface horizon through the LM overhead window and it should be approx. below the angle indicated right? But shall we look at the horizon from the OVH of photo 4 (I guess yes) or the enlarged version for docking (photo 5)?
Yes those are OHW angles to verify pitch and position with the horizon. As far as I can recall, those angles don't line up perfectly with our OHW positioning currently.

Q6) still during the PDI at some points the following green text appear: LPD ALT check and LPD POS check. I saw they are also written in the “PDI descent time table” at page 9 in the doc “LM timeline book” … does it simply mean that at these times they had to check outside the window where the LPD scale was visible to check outside for lunar surface landmarks / craters “showing up” on time? As when Neil said that having seen known marks arriving at not the correct time he already got the feeling that he was going to land not at the planned spot? Am I correct? If not, what we should do/look/check at these two remarks points?
Exactly, that's just checks with the charts and landmarks based on PDI time. And also how they realized they were going to land long.

Q7) I managed to land using P65 till blue contact light and stop then engine but after that the RCS jets started to fire and growing in intensity … I guess I should have flip some sw just after touch done to disable the jets for firing?
So what was done here is the ACA was moved out of detent. This sets a new "zero" point for the attitude hold and would effectively stop RCS firing. If you are using a keyboard for RCS, you cannot do this since it reads those inputs as "hardover" commands.

The best solution here (NASSP workaround, if you will) is to simply turn the mode control PGNS switch to off.

EDIT: Looks like Orbiter's command of CTRL+NUMPAD actually will work in lieu of this acting like a deflection out of detent without hardover. See if that works for you. If not, MODE CONT - OFF will work for sure.
Q8) as i screwed up the time sequence again to harry up, I am not sure where I should have got the P76 and CSM rescue pads: i guess P76 inside the LM (P76 is for the LM right?) and the "CSM rescue pads" are for the CSM right?
P76 is a program in both the CMC and LGC. This P76 update you are referring to is used in the CSM for the LM DOI burn to update the LM state vector in the CSM after the LM DOI and to allow tracking to resume.
 
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