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View Poll Results: Your SC3 add-ons in Spaceway and other simulators?
Yes, i don't mind my add-ons being used in other sims 22 81.48%
No, i do not want my add-ons being used in other sims 4 14.81%
Other, explained below 1 3.70%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-05-2013, 11:14 AM   #1
Artlav
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Default Spacecraft3 vessels in other simulators?

Sometimes, even though you were looking straight at something, you didn't realize what you were looking at until you happened to think exactly the right thought.

Some time ago i (and Face) made an open-source reimplementation of spacecraft3.dll - Genericvessel.
Not so long ago i realized that the way it is made meant that i had support for SC3 add-ons in my Spaceway simulator.

Even more, the way it is made and the fact that it's open source means that it can one day be easily ported to other simulators - Space Engine, you name it.

So, there is a question to add-on developers who made SC3 add-ons:
How do you feel about your add-ons being used in Spaceway or other non-Orbiter space flight simulators?
Not being distributed with one, just now you can install and fly them in another simulator.

Objections?
Implicit, non-obvious author rights/distribution issues?
Things to take care of?



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Old 09-05-2013, 11:26 AM   #2
Loru
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I haven't developed any spacecraft3 add-ons, however I think, that from legal point of view (assuming spacecraft3 add-on doesn't need to be modified) SpaceWay can be treated just as another orbiter graphic client.

I think most (if not all) developers would be glad to have another platform to show their work.
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:32 PM   #3
Donamy
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would the animations also ?
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:10 PM   #4
Face
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It would be interesting to hear the rationales of those voting with No. While I respect the opinion, I'm curious why an add-on developer does not want wider audience. Support considerations, maybe?
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:58 PM   #5
Artlav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donamy View Post
 would the animations also ?
...also work?
Sure, as good as they do in OGLAClient and genericvessel.

Here is a quick demo video to answer potential questions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Face View Post
 It would be interesting to hear the rationales of those voting with No.
Yes, could you please do?
One of the reasons i asked the question is to find out why not.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:32 PM   #6
Donamy
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Amazing !!
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:46 PM   #7
Spacethingy
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Did I really just see a Swift fly through a inter-planetary portal?! *happy sigh of admiration*

I'd happily vote yes, but I didn't as I've never actually made a SC3 vessel. Had I done so, I'd love to see my creation utilized in more than one sim.

Out of interest, does the Orbithangar license/TOC/EULA/whatever have any bearing on this?
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:02 PM   #8
Artlav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacethingy View Post
 Did I really just see a Swift fly through a inter-planetary portal?! *happy sigh of admiration*
No, you did not.
It was not an interplanetary portal, it was an interstellar stargate.
The change of the amount of suns and sunlight colour should be big enough clues.

The origin point is the Homestead system in The Local Bubble on the left, the destination is a frozen world in a binary system 300 light years to the right:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacethingy View Post
 Out of interest, does the Orbithangar license/TOC/EULA/whatever have any bearing on this?
Not that i can find.
It's a site dedicated to storing the Orbiter add-ons forever, there is no mentions on how the add-ons being stored are to be used.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:07 AM   #9
Enjo
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It would be a matter of time until some hacker figured out this portability potential. If it's one of the Generic Vessel author, then it's even better.

And while I think that it's very polite that you are asking about it, I can't imagine WINE authors asking each Windows application's author for permission to run their apps on WINE environment.

Last edited by Enjo; 09-06-2013 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:54 PM   #10
4throck
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I voted "others" just for the sake of multiple opinions.

On my case, add-ons are made to explore a realistic, free space simulator. The simulation part can be more important than meshes, shapes, animations, etc, etc. That's the difference between an Orbiter add-on and a Celestia add-on for example. Some actually use the same meshes, but the experience is not the same.

Now, it all depends on how this is done in practice. I'd care if add-on import to other simulators was done through direct access to OH for example. That would be too much.
I don't have a problem in developing a sc3 add-on specifically for SW, let's say a Space 1999 Eagle. That might even fit better there than here.... because the experience is different.

So I say that addon creators should have the possibility to choose in what programs they wish their work to be seen.


But why think only about spacecraft? Could Spaceway import an Orbiter solar System and give it real terrain? Could it import bases? That might be interesting, but it would also turn the discussion around a bit into "is Spaceway compatible with Orbiter's assets"?

And what about compatible save states? Orbiter can get you out of Earth and across the solar system, then SW get you into the stars and back again... That would be a valid reason to have the same spacecraft in both sims....

Last edited by 4throck; 09-06-2013 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:03 PM   #11
Artlav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enjo View Post
 And while I think that it's very polite that you are asking about it, I can't imagine WINE authors asking each Windows application's author for permission to run their apps on WINE environment.
Sure, but it makes sense to ask for general opinion.
I do come from a place that have little regard or understanding of copyrights and author rights, so i might have easily missed something obvious that makes this idea bad.

For example, you like an english webcomic, so you translate it to your language and post on your site, without asking anything.
Fine from our point of view, infuriating from their point of view: http://www.kerbalcomics.com/2012/07/...r-russian-fans

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 I'd care if add-on import to other simulators was done through direct access to OH for example.
I think there would be many objections to that from all sides.
Not that it's particularly feasible anyway - the add-ons there are not clearly defined enough to allow automatic dependency and conflict resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 But why think only about spacecraft? Could Spaceway import an Orbiter solar System and give it real terrain? Could it import bases?
Technically? Yes, it is OGLAClient in graphics, and i can parse the file formats.

Practically? There is no point - to import bases you need to import planets, to do that you need to import the solar system, at which point SW turns into a poor Orbiter knock-off.
I was never aiming for Orbiter-level accuracy and realism, so the end result would hardly be satisfying.

Vessels are a different story - there are a whole lot of sci-fi and futuristic designs on OH that would fit well into SW.
A starship belongs to the interstellar sea, not the cage of one solar system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 And what about compatible save states? Orbiter can get you out of Earth and across the solar system, then SW get you into the stars and back again...
Been there, done that.
Well, not me personally: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=19202
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:56 AM   #12
4throck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlav View Post
 Fine from our point of view, infuriating from their point of view
Actually you have worked for them and for free. They own the thing. So the only real problem is you distributing / hosting they work, not the work itself.

The safest path would be for you to host the translation only, perhaps with some sort of patch (can't figure out how that would work though...), and then let the user do the shady work

It was more or less what I hinted on my comments about connecting to OH directly.

Let the user download add-ons from OH, and then extract them to SW or use a converter or whatever. No problem there.
Just add a disclaimer somewhere that explains all this and you are fine for me. Just like OBM asks you no to reuse someone else's base and explains that tiles from Google can't be distributed. Simple, effective and doesn't affect individual creativity.

Last edited by 4throck; 09-07-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:58 PM   #13
Artlav
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Thanks everyone for voting and comments.
I'll be adding SC3 support to the next Spaceway release, and a note on how it works with a disclaimer and clarification.
Hopefully, OH don't mind being linked to from another sim's site.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:05 PM   #14
BruceJohnJennerLawso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlav View Post
 Thanks everyone for voting and comments.
I'll be adding SC3 support to the next Spaceway release, and a note on how it works with a disclaimer and clarification.
Hopefully, OH don't mind being linked to from another sim's site.
When will it be available? Im really looking forward to it
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:45 PM   #15
Artlav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceJohnJennerLawso View Post
 When will it be available?
One day, someday...
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