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Old 01-06-2012, 06:59 PM   #31
francisdrake
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Some time ago I read a story about an instrumented impactor. It was a kind of artillery shell with instrumentation in a compartment in the rear, designed to hit planetary soil without previous slow down. I was astonished that instrumentation could be built rugged enough to survive a direct impact.

This kind of direct hit probably cannot be simulated in Orbiter, as the impactor would bounce off the targets surface.
____

Space Probe Swarms to Slam into Planets for Science:
http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/p...t-planet-2104/

Last edited by francisdrake; 01-06-2012 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Link added
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:19 PM   #32
RisingFury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francisdrake View Post
 Some time ago I read a story about an instrumented impactor. It was a kind of artillery shell with instrumentation in a compartment in the rear, designed to hit planetary soil without previous slow down. I was astonished that instrumentation could be built rugged enough to survive a direct impact.

This kind of direct hit probably cannot be simulated in Orbiter, as the impactor would bounce off the targets surface.
____

Space Probe Swarms to Slam into Planets for Science:
http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/p...t-planet-2104/

GPS guided artillery shell:
M982 Excalibur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia M982 Excalibur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They had a lot of trouble making sure the electronics survives being fired.

Deep Space 2 (failure):
Deep Space 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Deep Space 2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:42 AM   #33
MaverickSawyer
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Right, I forgot about the Excalibur. The Excalibur is subject to more than 10000 g's on firing, IIRC. They wound up making custom circut board materials and mounting them edge-on in a radial pattern.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:26 AM   #34
n72.75
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[...]

Btw: Couldn't acutally a mass accelerator also used in this way, say reversely? A spacecrafts perapsis matches with a sled with the same speed. As soon as the spacecraft touches the sled, clamps hold it down, and the sled decreases the velocity of both. Could also be used as a recuperation for charging huge capacitors for the next launch.

That's actually not a half bad idea. Might be possible in real life.
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Old 02-20-2012, 04:45 AM   #35
aftercolumbia
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I've landed the Delta Glider on the moon with nothing but the RCS, but the touchdown speed was just under 1500m/s, so it is obviously not realistic. On Mars, I was a lot less dead with a 650m/s landing, but of course, heaven and hell don't care if you're a little dead or really super dead, yer still dead (or in Orbiter's case, invincible.)

If the objective is to land her without hovers, than it should be realistic to come to a nose up hover at a few meters, kill the engines, and then pitch over with the RCS. It'd be a bit rough, but by all means survivable.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:11 PM   #36
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I remember one time when i used DGIV hover autopilot and I was on moon orbit with PeA 1m after touching the surface the gears just destroyed. I think the point is to get circular orbit at 1 m and then going lower and lower. Using RCS in translation mode should be necessary. BTW challenge accepted

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

I did it! I used XR5. Someone can say that's cheating, because I've used Descent Hold Autopilot, but only to reach orbit. After getting it I safely managed my RCS thrusters to reach PeA at -8 m and then after touchdown I managed to get a circular orbit(when rolling on the surface ). If you don't trust me, I upload my playback few mins before touchdown.
Tip. Keep looking outside the ship to see Brighton Beach

My next challenge: land at one of lpads at Brighton using Lithobraking


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Old 02-22-2012, 06:12 PM   #37
MaverickSawyer
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Nice to see that it can be done, if only with great difficulty.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:06 PM   #38
Hielor
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Keep in mind that this is only remotely possible because Orbiter's moon is a nearly perfect sphere. In reality, you couldn't even come close to the necessary shallow approach angle without hitting mountains--and even if you didn't have mountains to worry about, the tiniest micro-crater or small bump would tear your undercarriage off. If you were lucky--if you were unlucky it would just send you into the surface at 1500m/s.

Someone want to try this with Orulex enabled, or maybe in KSP?
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:40 PM   #39
Scruce
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Originally Posted by Hielor View Post
 or maybe in KSP?
It wouldn't work in KSP. There are tiny height differences between the texture seams which would jump the spacecraft into a spin. Adding to this; the texture seams are less than 50 meters apart.

Trust me, I tried.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:35 AM   #40
MaverickSawyer
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Originally Posted by Hielor View Post
 Someone want to try this with Orulex enabled, or maybe in KSP?
Only if it Orulex alone, and not the collision detection!
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:31 PM   #41
Loren Pechtel
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Originally Posted by jedidia View Post
 It wouldn't be Lithobraking anymore then, would it?

It would still make a great stunt at any lunar "air"-show, though...



The concept exists, but it would have to be a very long accelerator if you want to do it with maned craft.

Also, the needed precision is enourmous. And a failed landing would be a pretty big catastrophy, not only destroying the craft, but also large parts of the accelerator. And there's no touch-and-go if you mess up your first aproach.
I just stumbled on this with a Google search and I have to disagree here. I believe it could be done safely if the system were designed correctly.

The problem is the assumption of the low point in the orbit being just below the surface. That would make a spectacular mess if it went bad but it's not necessary to make the concept work.

Instead, make the approach orbit at all times clear the surface. Use multiple orbits to ensure the lineup is perfect. You make the first flyby well above the runway, the instruments there get a very precise position and so you know exactly how much velocity must be shed. Shed much of this and repeat. You can take baby steps down until the orbit is only a few meters above the runway.

At this point the sled is launched. The approach part of the runway is configured to almost perfectly match the orbit an approaching spacecraft is in, thus the sled will be moving at a very slow speed relative to the spacecraft (other than the fact that it's riding magnetic rails it's actually in orbit.) It reaches up and grapples the spacecraft and pulls it down and then slows it.

Up until the point that the sled grapples the do-nothing approach is always safe. After grappling you can still disconnect the grapples safely. You're only committed after the sled starts tugging.

As others have said the runway must be huge.


Note that you can take this idea to an extreme for efficient interplanetary transport. Consider what happens if you build the track all the way around the equator and design it to hold onto craft that are traveling above orbital velocity.

If I haven't blown the math somewhere you can accelerate to a transfer orbit to any point in the solar system (including escaping with several miles/sec) with no more than 5g's.
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