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Old 10-04-2011, 08:19 AM   #91
PennyBlack
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I'm going to have to give the SixtySymbols channel a link in my favs.

---------- Post added at 08:19 ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 ----------

Remember Einstein’s static universe theory... anybody can be wrong, even a genious.

Question, question question, rinse then repeat.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:50 AM   #92
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Big Grin Faster than light travel may be around the corner!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78L4FH20110922

I saw this via stumble and I had to favor it!!!

What do you think, share your opinions...
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:44 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by _Designer_ View Post
 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78L4FH20110922

I saw this via stumble and I had to favor it!!!

What do you think, share your opinions...
Just because some neutrinos can make it to Italy and back faster than light can, doesn't mean that we're going to have warp-drives in ten years.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:08 AM   #94
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Already discussed in this thread: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=24512
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:15 AM   #95
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 Already discussed in this thread: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=24512
I knew I should've clicked that search button first, lol.

If not 10 years, maybe 20 I don't mind I'll be alive to see it happen I hope :p
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Old 10-10-2011, 08:31 AM   #96
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:11 AM   #97
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 If not 10 years, maybe 20 I don't mind I'll be alive to see it happen I hope :p
Not in 100, not in 1000. Maybe in 10,000 years' time.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:10 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by n72.75 View Post
 Just because some neutrinos can make it to Italy and back faster than light can, doesn't mean that we're going to have warp-drives in ten years.
We should try it with Germany. Speed limits aren't enforced so tightly, I can understand neutrinos going to Italy might want to exercise a little caution.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:15 AM   #99
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Slow down guys. There is every chance that this is not a real breakthrough. there is ever chance that an error in the experiment gave the appearence of Muon Neutrinos going faster than light.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...your-hopes-up/
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:16 AM   #100
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Does anyone know when they are going to replicate the experiment again?
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:16 PM   #101
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 Slow down guys.
Yes, once again the media has done a fantastic job in reporting and inflated the facts.

The CERN release is NOT a statement of "we have detected Neutrinos travelling faster than c". It is more a case of "we have these results that seem to suggest that we have had neutrinos travelling faster than c, but we are very cagey about jumping to that conclusion. We have ruled out as many of the errors and variables as we can and taken into account everything* that we can think of that would affect the result but still get neutrinos travelling slightly faster than c. We are releasing the results to the wider scientific community so that others can analyse them and maybe spot something that we missed before jumping to radical conclusions".

Also, Einstein's theory of Relativity does not state that nothing can travel faster than light. It says that nothing of non-zero rest mass can attain the speed of light (and thus by corollary nothing of non-zero rest-mass that is initially travelling sub-luminal can travel faster than c). It does not rule out the possibility of particles travelling faster than c (tachyons) but does rule out the fact that if these super-luminal particles exist, then can never be slowed down to below c.


Edit:
*I was listening to Dr Karl's podcast (very good radio phone-in show about Science**) the other day and he was saying that they had even taken into account Earthquakes that had changed the distance over the Earth from CERN to Italy!!!

** Dr Karl on BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/drkarl
** Dr Karl on TrippleJ: http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/podcast.htm

Last edited by agentgonzo; 10-10-2011 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:35 PM   #102
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Someone has mind melded the threads... WoW
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:37 AM   #103
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Discovery News: FTL Neutrino Research 'Almost Certainly Wrong':
Quote:
{...}

Fermilab physicist Joseph Lykken told Jennifer that the OPERA results were "a pretty messy way to try to test a fundamental property. You have a proton beam at CERN that makes the neutrinos, but you don't know which proton made which neutrino. This makes it tough to claim nanosecond timing of the neutrinos."

Krauss agrees that the result is more likely comes from a systematic error:
The claim that neutrinos arrived at the Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy from CERN's Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland on average 60 billionths of a second before they would have if they were traveling at light speed relies on complicated statistical analysis. It must take into account the modeling of the detectors and how long their response time is, careful synchronization of clocks and a determination of the distance between the CERN accelerator and the Gran Sasso detector accurate to a distance of a few meters. Each of these factors has intrinsic uncertainties that, if misestimated, could lead to an erroneous conclusion.
Although the neutrinos appeared to arrive at the Gran Sasso National Laboratory in Italy (some 730 kilometers from the LHC -- the source of the neutrinos) faster than light would have taken, it is much more likely that there is some unaccounted for error in the method rather than any unforeseen kink in the physical nature of our Universe.

Lykken and Krauss point to the "messy" way in which the neutrinos were generated and measured -- potentially accounting for the 60 nanosecond discrepancy between the speed of light and that of the measured neutrino beam.

{...}
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:11 PM   #104
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Aww... how disappointing.
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:56 PM   #105
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Technology Review: Faster-than-Light Neutrino Puzzle Claimed Solved by Special Relativity

Universe Today: Special Relativity May Answer Faster-than-Light Neutrino Mystery:
Quote:
{...}

To get a clearer picture, the distance the neutrinos traveled is straightforward. They began in CERN and were measured via global positioning systems. However, the Gran Sasso Laboratory is located beneath the Earth under a kilometre-high mountain. Regardless, the OPERA team took this into account and provided an accurate distance measurement of 730 km to within tolerances of 20 cm. The neutrino flight time is then measured by using clocks at the opposing ends, with the team knowing exactly when the particles left and when they landed.

But were the clocks perfectly synchronized?

Keeping time is again the domain of the GPS satellites which each broadcasting a highly accurate time signal from orbit some 20,000km overhead. But is it possible the team overlooked the amount of time it took for the satellite signals to return to Earth? In his statement, van Elburg says there is one effect that the OPERA team seems to have overlooked: the relativistic motion of the GPS clocks.

Sure, radio waves travel at the speed of light, so what difference does the satellite position make? The truth is, it doesn’t.. but the time of flight does. Here we have a scenario where one clock is on the ground while the other is orbiting. If they are moving relative to one another, this calculation needs to be included in the findings. The orbiting probes are positioned from West to East in a plane inclined at 55 degrees to the equator… almost directly in line with the neutrino flight path. This means the clock on the GPS is seeing the neutrino source and detector as changing.

“From the perspective of the clock, the detector is moving towards the source and consequently the distance travelled by the particles as observed from the clock is shorter,” says van Elburg.

According to the news source, he means shorter than the distance measured in the reference frame on the ground and the OPERA team overlooks this because it thinks of the clocks as on the ground not in orbit. Van Elburg calculates that it should cause the neutrinos to arrive 32 nanoseconds early. But this must be doubled because the same error occurs at each end of the experiment. So the total correction is 64 nanoseconds, almost exactly what the OPERA team observes.

Is this the final answer for traveling faster than the speed of light? No. It’s just another possible answer to explain a new riddle… and a confirmation of a new revelation.

{...}
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