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Old 06-12-2019, 02:14 AM   #31
barrygolden
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The saga of the X 33 is an example of a Failed NASA. Yes Urwumpe your right, lots of issues with the odd shape and composite tanks. But Lockheed built some aluminum tanks and found they were lighter than the composite tanks and then they solved the composite tanks by filling the honeycomb structure. The word I got was that the X 33 was 90% complete but a NASA big wig said that it wouldn't be advanced enough so they canceled the funding. Lockheed was ok with that because they didn't have the funding to finance the Venture Star.
I thought the X33 with a Space hab module launched on a Delta 4 would have made a great ISS resupply craft. I shared that with my co workers here at Space X and really raised some eye brows and some looks at it. They looked at it as an upper stage with the Sats carried in the payload bay which with the smaller fuel tanks would be a bigger bay and totally reusable.
I do have a Venture Star addon in orbiter thanks to gattis and have been flying different missions and really have enjoyed it.
Seeing men and women walk on the moon before I pass would be great but don't think it will happen . Landing on the Moon in 5 years ? I don't think the SLS will fly in 5 years if ever. Maybe an inflatable gateway with a modified X33 might be cool to see. It could carry fuel to refill a reusable lander docked to Gateway might work
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:12 AM   #32
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Well, you know: The final 10% of work take 90% of the time.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:01 PM   #33
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As you can tell I was a big fan of the X 33 and venture Star. No way was NASA going to have astronauts ride inside a hydrogen bomb but SSTO is the Holy Grail to solve the most expensive 100 miles. I like Jim Bridenstine but I see a song and dance routine. What I would like to see is the same charts that Sally Ride explained in her report to the Augustine commission and showed Constellation was a " Dead Man Walking" . I have ask my Congressman Kevin Brady to show us those but I was told " Stay calm All is Well" ( see Animal House movie)
Look no further than "Freedom" 8 years and 10 billion sent and all we got were paint samples and computer generated images. $ 10 billion !! All those guy draw NASA pensions and live on Fisher Island

Last edited by barrygolden; 06-12-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by barrygolden View Post
 As you can tell I was a big fan of the X 33 and venture Star. No way was NASA going to have astronauts ride inside a hydrogen bomb but SSTO is the Holy Grail to solve the most expensive 100 miles.
Sure SSTO is it psychologically. It is the dream of flying to space like flying from New York to Denver. But I think this is lacking imagination.

During the early days of flight, people compared flying from Paris to New York to passenger ships, because they had no idea how travel in an aircraft would eventually be like. (Just imagine telling them in 1912 about the future Concorde. )

We still like to compare a well-running, boring, efficient spaceflight to aircraft, but I am not sure if this is really the best goal.

For example I think TSTOs are way more capable as long as we are talking about rockets. If you can build a barely working SSTO, a TSTO could fly loops around it while still hauling more into orbit. (That TSTO is what SpaceX currently plans with their BFR.)

But what if somebody manages to build a space elevator? Or something completely new regarding engines? Then TSTO would be likely an obsolete concept and a SSTO would look different to what we imagine today.
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:00 PM   #35
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The aim to do what is proposed end of, may be make some money on the side if it lasts, this is exploration. If no station around the Moon, how does learning to live in orbit of a moon not advance human understanding?

The idea of an actual outpost on the Moon is nonsense. I mean may be anywhere, like how they did the Taurus littrow valley, landing on the darker locations isn't much fun.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:57 PM   #36
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The problem with the US congress it is full of benefactors, the long term goal of space fight will never happen with the chamber only looking for funds, I was sure that doing one or two mission with Astronauts is the only way by government, otherwise it will be the wealthiest companies that will may be try and do this alone, but even they will need money to keep it going, unless it is just done for knowledge, like out of star trek.
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richfromengland View Post
 The problem with the US congress it is full of benefactors, the long term goal of space fight will never happen with the chamber only looking for funds, I was sure that doing one or two mission with Astronauts is the only way by government, otherwise it will be the wealthiest companies that will may be try and do this alone, but even they will need money to keep it going, unless it is just done for knowledge, like out of star trek.
Elon Musk says SpaceX’s Starship can land on the moon by 2021.
By Trevor Mogg — Posted on July 18, 2019 10:45PM PST
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-t...-moon-by-2021/

Bob Clark
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:36 PM   #38
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Y'know, at this point, I believe him. He certainly will beat NASA to BLEO.
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Old 07-20-2019, 09:06 PM   #39
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 Y'know, at this point, I believe him. He certainly will beat NASA to BLEO.
At least, he could have the money for this plan. NASA depends on Congress, which is mostly filled with people who had to become congressmen for not causing too much harm in a real business.

SpaceX can take money from any investor willed to give it to them. They just have to pay it back, eventually, but SpaceX has way more freedom there.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:11 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MaverickSawyer View Post
 Y'know, at this point, I believe him. He certainly will beat NASA to BLEO.
SpaceX is nothing without NASA. Even though Artemis 1 will delay, the construction of the Gateway will never delay with Falcon Heavy.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:05 PM   #41
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 SpaceX is nothing without NASA.
That could be moving in the other direction soon.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:28 PM   #42
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Quote:
A Nasa facility in Alabama that developed the giant rocket for the Apollo programme in the 1960s will play a key role in sending astronauts down to the Moon's surface in 2024.
The Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville will lead the development of a vehicle that will land astronauts on the body for the first time since 1972.
The decision was announced by Nasa's administrator Jim Bridenstine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49381622
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Old 08-21-2019, 02:24 AM   #43
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This is a good discussion on the mission and the reasons behind it. The discussion starts at 34:30.

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Old 09-01-2019, 07:24 PM   #44
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https://twitter.com/VP/status/1167164310612840451?s=19

It looks like this is getting some bipartisan support, it might actually happen in this case.

Regardless of who wins in 2020 I think it would be hard to cancel this program if the first SLS flies in 2020 or is close to flying status by that point.
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